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On February 28 2012 23:50 zefreak wrote:
First of all Dragon isn't banned from tournaments, he even played in GSL after the cheating scandal and he self-imposed a ban due to the outrage. He could play in Code S right now if he wanted to, GOMTV has not banned him at all.
Secondly, Dragon left SlayerS on his own terms to look for a foreign team. He was not kicked out of SlayerS for cheating. His cheating scandal happened even before he was on SlayerS, so it's not even close to being correct.
Lastly, even if the caster (never heard of him before, don't follow Playhem at all) was trolling the chat, it was in very poor taste. He didn't sound like he was joking (and even if he was, it's not something to joke about). Dragon has changed a lot since his earlier days, and has built up a lot of good will in the community for his personality and stream. For Katu to bring up his past in such a vitriolic manner is unacceptable and honestly shouldn't be forgiven. Does he have a personal problem with Dragon? The comments honestly seem way out of line.
Dragon wasn't banned from anything, he just said he wouldn't become a competitive player anymore.
Src: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
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On February 28 2012 23:47 pampelmus wrote:
This kind of outrageous shitstorms are getting really ridiculous. I mean, Dragons past is a little shady. They said some stuff, they apologize, whatever. Move on. These campaigns of dragging people through the mud because they said something not very intelligent or without proper precaution is not good. If casters won't be able to say what they think, their casting will get boring.
my 2c.
Reddit lives and dies by it. There are currently five posts on the front page just about this right now! Everybody there is just looking for controversy, and you can count on an obsession like this at least once a week there.
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On February 28 2012 23:13 CrY. wrote:
No sympathy from either. Dragon DID cheat..not once...multiple times! For a $$$ tourneys! Not even that long ago! We aren't talking about bw..we are speaking of sc2 (unlike most community cheaters known from bw, lastshadow, tt1). Sure dragon is a crowd pleaser but if you cannot read for yourself and see that Dragon is not a good person and have no respect for the ethics of being a good sport and a true competitor. SaviOr got no sympathy and he was 10x the player of dragon! I realize this is not the highest echelons of a national phenomenon, but certainly everyone here condoning and "forgiving" a player who doesn't give a shit about YOU personally (as proven by his blatantly disrespect for his "peers" by CHEATING MULTIPLE times) is just as disgusting as the behavior of a "professional" caster.
Katu should be fired, because he clearly got in over his head but had many chances to stop. Even if he had said what he said at first, he could have just cut his losses instead of droning on and on. And Dragon should move on from the community, like all cheaters should imho. Cheating is seldom "spur of the moment", it's rationalized and planned and thought out, then if they get caught, people want to turn the other cheek? Forgive and forget? The ONLY thing tying together the competition of online games is the vanguard of ethics we like to pretend people have. And when those principles are sacrificed for $$$ and greed, there is NO concept of "fair" competition. You have sacrificed your own integrity, and the faith people put in you as a competitor to be honest, fair, and respectful TO THE ETHICS OF THE GAME. Even if you BM the shit out of your opponent, if you didn't cheat you are an honorable competitor. Even if Dragon is polite and nice, he does not value the spirit that glues this game together. If the community had no trust in the players there would be a FARCE competition.
I wish I could be as wide-eyed as some of you.
1. Savior was prosecuted and sentenced according to Korean law, this should tell you something about the relative seriousness between the two incidents.
2. How do you know that Dragon did cheat multiple times? Have he ever admitted that?
3. The first tourney was Gisado's KotH, if Mio.WeRRa won 16 times he would have gotten 20 dollars, 1st place in the A1 Starcraft2 Tournament #2 seems to have been 30k won or about 27 dollars.
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On February 28 2012 23:50 zefreak wrote:
First of all Dragon isn't banned from tournaments, he even played in GSL after the cheating scandal and he self-imposed a ban due to the outrage. He could play in Code S right now if he wanted to, GOMTV has not banned him at all.
Secondly, Dragon left SlayerS on his own terms to look for a foreign team. He was not kicked out of SlayerS for cheating. His cheating scandal happened even before he was on SlayerS, so it's not even close to being correct.
Lastly, even if the caster (never heard of him before, don't follow Playhem at all) was trolling the chat, it was in very poor taste. He didn't sound like he was joking (and even if he was, it's not something to joke about). Dragon has changed a lot since his earlier days, and has built up a lot of good will in the community for his personality and stream. For Katu to bring up his past in such a vitriolic manner is unacceptable and honestly shouldn't be forgiven. Does he have a personal problem with Dragon? The comments honestly seem way out of line.
From what I've seen of Katu he seems to be pretty BM to anyone. I remember I was watching Boyo's stream as he was playing in the NA playhem and he went up against Katu. Katu lost pretty straight up to Boyo and left only after leaving a small balance whine and no GG.
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After reading katu's apology i feel really sorry for the guy :-/ This has gotten way out of hand, now he probably wont be able to cast anything anymore :/
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The punishment of Dragon was the end of his career as a progammer, I think this sentence is enough hard for him, stop bashing him..
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On February 28 2012 23:54 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
After reading katu's apology i feel really sorry for the guy :-/ This has gotten way out of hand, now he probably wont be able to cast anything anymore :/
Where is his apology?
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I'm amazed by the response from the playhelm guy. Class act A+
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This public shamming of Katu should be enough of a punishment and I don't think the poor boy need to be punished anymore for this. Furthermore, he already made a public apology and Playhem already taken make amends to dragon. I think this is as good of a time as any to shelve the pitchfork and let this incident die.
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From what I've seen of Katu he seems to be pretty BM to anyone. I remember I was watching Boyo's stream as he was playing in the NA playhem and he went up against Katu. Katu lost pretty straight up to Boyo and left only after leaving a small balance whine and no GG.
OMG OUTRAGEOUS.
I watched his casting a few hours and I like him. Did not seem to be bad mannered at all. The two words above are not meant seriously, by the way.
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He is really an idiot ...
Because if he was 'stream cheating' he would not throw down a 3rd CC in response to a roach ling all in ...
So not only is he an idiot, but he doesn't understand the game 
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I just don't understand how in the fuck someone can think for a fraction of a second that it's okay to say the things Katu said in a broadcasted tournament while representing a company, even if he was indeed trolling (which by the way, is a word no one with pretentions of professionalism should use in his professional environment). I just can't fathom that. Is it really that hard to treat everything you do as if everyone would hold you accountable for it? Because in this day and age, that's actually what happens.
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On February 28 2012 23:57 pampelmus wrote:Show nested quote +From what I've seen of Katu he seems to be pretty BM to anyone. I remember I was watching Boyo's stream as he was playing in the NA playhem and he went up against Katu. Katu lost pretty straight up to Boyo and left only after leaving a small balance whine and no GG. OMG OUTRAGEOUS. I watched his casting a few hours and I like him. Did not seem to be bad mannered at all. The two words above are not meant seriously, by the way.
Just sharing an experience man. From the things I have seen from him he has been pretty BM. That's just my personal experiences.
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Sounds like he was drunk or something 0.o
Meh I still like the caster
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On February 28 2012 23:39 Rmdx wrote:
With sc2 as it is i think anyone can call themselve a caster who fluently speak english and the issue it brings is that small hosted cups have some ppl commentating their cups who call themselves Casters and are somewhat of a joke.
I dont mean to insult but i just have some things casters did back in my head but ye, i guess nobody cares too much, neither should one.
I'm completely with Rmdx on this one. With the advent of streaming and programs like xsplit and websites like twitch making it so easy for pretty much anyone to get involved with streaming, I would venture to say even that the majority of people out there streaming can be considered unprofessional and don't have high standards that can be compared with other broadcasts.
The problem, I think, appears when people want to be taken seriously, want to make something of streaming and get their name out in the public space, but at the same time their manners, professionalism aren't up to par with what they expect to happen. There have to be high standards laid out as a goal in the beginning so they can be constantly striven for. Good character and professionalism will follow as a result.
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On February 28 2012 23:52 mrafaeldie12 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:50 zefreak wrote:
First of all Dragon isn't banned from tournaments, he even played in GSL after the cheating scandal and he self-imposed a ban due to the outrage. He could play in Code S right now if he wanted to, GOMTV has not banned him at all.
Secondly, Dragon left SlayerS on his own terms to look for a foreign team. He was not kicked out of SlayerS for cheating. His cheating scandal happened even before he was on SlayerS, so it's not even close to being correct.
Lastly, even if the caster (never heard of him before, don't follow Playhem at all) was trolling the chat, it was in very poor taste. He didn't sound like he was joking (and even if he was, it's not something to joke about). Dragon has changed a lot since his earlier days, and has built up a lot of good will in the community for his personality and stream. For Katu to bring up his past in such a vitriolic manner is unacceptable and honestly shouldn't be forgiven. Does he have a personal problem with Dragon? The comments honestly seem way out of line. Dragon wasn't banned from anything, he just said he wouldn't become a competitive player anymore. Src: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
Are we reading the same thing? From the page you linked, it appears he isn't disputing that he (stream)cheated in the past. So while you are literally right, he wasn't banned, it seems to me like he was at the time guilty of something.
As far as the comments of the caster are concerned, they were out of line but this witch hunt is a bit ridiculous. His comments are being blown out of proportion I think.
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seriously, katu is 1 of the best amateur caster around, and some of you guys want him fired? for telling the truth about his streamcheating history? really?
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On February 28 2012 23:54 Faust852 wrote:
The punishment of Dragon was the end of his career as a progammer, I think this sentence is enough hard for him, stop bashing him..
Well he is obviously making a comeback? I don't like Dragon since that controversy, suprised nothing more happened. But I watched the clip and sounds really like Katu is being a big douchebag, not really necessary. Feels like the big winner here is Dragon though since he get this sponsorship by Playhem to IPL4, holy shit O_O
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On February 29 2012 00:08 eXeJJu wrote:
seriously, katu is 1 of the best amateur caster around, and some of you guys want him fired? for telling the truth about his streamcheating history? really?
Except he didn't tell the truth, apparently he didn't even know what he was talking about. Yes, Dragon has streamcheated, but he was not banned from anything because of it and he did not get kicked out of SlayerS because of it as it happened before he even joined SlayerS.
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On February 29 2012 00:08 eXeJJu wrote:
seriously, katu is 1 of the best amateur caster around, and some of you guys want him fired? for telling the truth about his streamcheating history? really?
He wasn't just pointing out the history (which is a long time ago and rather irrelevant), he was implying that Dragon was stream cheating at that moment.
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EPT
