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Either a mod or the OP should update the first post. It has the CEOs response, but there have been additional clarifications. There was the post on the tournament thread by PlayhemTV and there was the clarification by the CEO that Katu is no longer affiliated with Playhem. Would help people to understand that Playhem is doing the right thing here and to make sure that anger is directed in the right ways and people are seeing the full story.
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"not implying", while directly implying. Who is this guy anyway?
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On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:On February 28 2012 22:17 Mementoss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with what the caster said? Dragon is a known cheater and should quit playing starcraft 2, or start smurfing and not tell anyone his alternate account. This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away.
when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away.
I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame.
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On February 28 2012 23:38 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:36 HowardRoark wrote:
I have some questions?
1. Dragon is on Slayers, right?
2. Dragon isn't known for cheating at all, right?
So, this caster just had a meltdown, or were there actually some ill gotten rumors going about Dragon? Rumors of him leaving Slayers? He left SlayerS a while ago as well.
Also to be mentioned, him leaving SlayerS had nothing to do with the cheating incidents that were referred to by Katu.
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Listen the VOD up to 4:12:00 (from around 4:00:00) - Katu talks about stream cheating a whole lot.
But he's also not too serious and overboard trolling to make his chat angry more than anything. He seems to have achieved this goal. Job well done, some free publicity now for him and Playhem.
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On February 28 2012 23:38 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +How can you so assuredly be critical of Katu's "illogical inference," if, in order for you to know it to be true, you must likewise make a something of an "illogical inference?" Katu maintained to have been "trolling," do you really know he wasn't? Perhaps even, trolling was warranted. We don't even know what was said in the chat at that time. Because people are innocent until proven guilty. The caster had no business in telling us his opinion and claim that someone is cheating. Why would players participate if they take the risk of being criticized uncalled for by the casters? It's called good manners.
I think you've misunderstood. The idea was Katu himself is subject to the same sort of mis-accusation. Additionally, "innocent until proven guilty" is a primarily legal doctrine that pertains to punishment and not accusation. Wouldn't want to cause any confusion.
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On February 28 2012 23:41 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:On February 28 2012 22:17 Mementoss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with what the caster said? Dragon is a known cheater and should quit playing starcraft 2, or start smurfing and not tell anyone his alternate account. This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away. when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away. I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame.
Sure. Im pretty sure even combat doesnt stream cheat anymore. Seems he only does it to troll Destiny or something.
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On February 28 2012 23:41 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:On February 28 2012 22:17 Mementoss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with what the caster said? Dragon is a known cheater and should quit playing starcraft 2, or start smurfing and not tell anyone his alternate account. This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away. when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away. I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame.
I believe combatex scammed money back during the BW days and also combat ex has had the reputation that he has for years on end while the incident with Dragon was isolated to those few cups. It's much easier to forgive one action than it is to forgive years of the same stupid stuff over and over again. I thought that the TL admins made that clear back when he posted that apology video where he cried.
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On February 28 2012 23:13 CrY. wrote:
No sympathy from either. Dragon DID cheat..not once...multiple times! For a $$$ tourneys! Not even that long ago! We aren't talking about bw..we are speaking of sc2 (unlike most community cheaters known from bw, lastshadow, tt1). Sure dragon is a crowd pleaser but if you cannot read for yourself and see that Dragon is not a good person and have no respect for the ethics of being a good sport and a true competitor. SaviOr got no sympathy and he was 10x the player of dragon! I realize this is not the highest echelons of a national phenomenon, but certainly everyone here condoning and "forgiving" a player who doesn't give a shit about YOU personally (as proven by his blatantly disrespect for his "peers" by CHEATING MULTIPLE times) is just as disgusting as the behavior of a "professional" caster.
Katu should be fired, because he clearly got in over his head but had many chances to stop. Even if he had said what he said at first, he could have just cut his losses instead of droning on and on. And Dragon should move on from the community, like all cheaters should imho. Cheating is seldom "spur of the moment", it's rationalized and planned and thought out, then if they get caught, people want to turn the other cheek? Forgive and forget? The ONLY thing tying together the competition of online games is the vanguard of ethics we like to pretend people have. And when those principles are sacrificed for $$$ and greed, there is NO concept of "fair" competition. You have sacrificed your own integrity, and the faith people put in you as a competitor to be honest, fair, and respectful TO THE ETHICS OF THE GAME. Even if you BM the shit out of your opponent, if you didn't cheat you are an honorable competitor. Even if Dragon is polite and nice, he does not value the spirit that glues this game together. If the community had no trust in the players there would be a FARCE competition.
I wish I could be as wide-eyed as some of you.
Well said, have the same view about all of this
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On February 28 2012 23:41 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:On February 28 2012 22:17 Mementoss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with what the caster said? Dragon is a known cheater and should quit playing starcraft 2, or start smurfing and not tell anyone his alternate account. This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away. when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away. I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame.
Then you do not know what Combat-EX has done, he has in fact cheated for money and in a far worse way than streamcheating to win a tourny.
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On February 28 2012 23:44 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:41 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:On February 28 2012 22:17 Mementoss wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with what the caster said? Dragon is a known cheater and should quit playing starcraft 2, or start smurfing and not tell anyone his alternate account. This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away. when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away. I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame. Then you do not know what Combat-EX has done, he has in fact cheated for money and in a far worse way than streamcheating to win a tourny.
thanks. but this doesn't change the facts. Now he is equivalent to Dragon 
Anyway, I do agree with Cry 100%. There is a post of him upper here that will make you realise what I think
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Seems like that's that then, nice and tidy. Hope everything works out for everyone.
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Looks like r/starcraft is spilling over teamliquid.net.
People fuck up sometimes, just wait until he apologizes, don't crucify him.
What I find funny about this event is that most Dragon fans don't actually acknowledge why he left WeRRa and why it is ironic that he is being invited to a competitive event.
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This kind of outrageous shitstorms are getting really ridiculous. I mean, Dragons past is a little shady. They said some stuff, they apologize, whatever. Move on. These campaigns of dragging people through the mud because they said something not very intelligent or without proper precaution is not good. If casters won't be able to say what they think, their casting will get boring.
my 2c.
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As I expected. Saw the who match people were talking and than the talks after wards. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. They weren't even half serious about the things they said and YES they did seem to be trolling the chat. You know the chat full of quote on quote "retards" we are supposed to ignore? The same chat people tell players to not pay attention to. The same chat that people say is not part of this community. Yeah that same chat. What waste of my time and low end drama.
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On February 28 2012 23:46 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:44 Cokefreak wrote:On February 28 2012 23:41 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:39 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:31 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:28 Marcus420 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:21 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 28 2012 23:20 ePLocust wrote:On February 28 2012 23:17 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On February 28 2012 22:50 TemujinGK wrote:
[quote]
This is pretty agressive, I definitely don't agree. He streamcheated once when he was younger which is borderline criminal in korea. If a minor commits a criminal act in the US, France, or anywhere in the Crown (those are the only places i've lived) then they serve a penalty and upon coming of age their record is sealed. I think dragon's served his penalty. How long was he out for... a year or so? Maybe less? Progamers with the matchfixing scandal from BW are banned for life. Players who cheated in TSL2's qualification stage took heavy bans, including TSL3 and a year of other TL related events. This includes some big names from BW, some who carried over to SC2 - Dimaga is the big one that stands out. The policy put in place after that faced up to 18 months + the next two TSLs. Other players in and out of Korea have faced harsh treatment after they sullied their reputations. This kid didn't "serve his penalty," not even in the slightest. The match fixing scandal is on a wholly different level than mere stream cheating. The two are not even close to comparable. in fact trying to murder someone is just different from having murdered him, because they are not even close to comparable. You serious? You really want dragon to fall just because of a couple small, what, 50$ cups? IF its true or w/e? the savior/bw incidents had thousands of dollars in bets behind them. Very illegal activity. My god people are so dramatic over such small things. To think casters think we have a mature community I don't care about how much he stole; from your point of view I could say that if he did that for 50 cups , he would do worse for larger amount of money. It's not being dramatic, it is being realistic. People also change and learn from their mistakes. The incident happened so long ago. Stop being so thick-skulled. Put your drama-lama pitchfork away. when you will have the same opinion for combat-ex I will put my drama-lama pitchfork away. I don't understand these two different balance. At least Combatex didn't do it for money, he did it just for the fame. Then you do not know what Combat-EX has done, he has in fact cheated for money and in a far worse way than streamcheating to win a tourny. thanks. but this doesn't change the facts. Now he is equivalent to Dragon
No he is not. IIRC he pretended he was terminally ill to scam money off of the community in BW. Also, he's really never stopped his actions over the many many years that he's been around. The length of time that's involved has to be considered as well as what the person has done.
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On February 28 2012 23:48 GenoZStriker wrote:
As I expected. Saw the who match people were talking and than the talks after wards. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. They weren't even half serious about the things they said and YES they did seem to be trolling the chat. You know the chat full of retards we are supposed to ignore? The same chat the people tell players to not pay attention to. The same chat that people say is not part of this community. Yeah that same chat. What waste of time and low end drama.
No shit. People seem to pull anything that they can find and complain about it publicly. He doesnt need to lose his job or anything over this.
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First of all Dragon isn't banned from tournaments, he even played in GSL after the cheating scandal and he self-imposed a ban due to the outrage. He could play in Code S right now if he wanted to, GOMTV has not banned him at all.
Secondly, Dragon left SlayerS on his own terms to look for a foreign team. He was not kicked out of SlayerS for cheating. His cheating scandal happened even before he was on SlayerS, so it's not even close to being correct.
Lastly, even if the caster (never heard of him before, don't follow Playhem at all) was trolling the chat, it was in very poor taste. He didn't sound like he was joking (and even if he was, it's not something to joke about). Dragon has changed a lot since his earlier days, and has built up a lot of good will in the community for his personality and stream. For Katu to bring up his past in such a vitriolic manner is unacceptable and honestly shouldn't be forgiven. Does he have a personal problem with Dragon? The comments honestly seem way out of line.
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Katu is a nice guy , he probably did not want to cause so much drama.. Katu casts playhem and KSL also so he tries to give something to the community , he probably regrets saying that , but you guys are making a storm on a glass of water ..
In todays world everyone tries to judge/ trial / condemn on the same day things happen , but when a voice or unity is needed on important things like economy or political mathers , nobody moves , nobody does nothing , just whistles..
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-4198928-custom.png)
