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On February 28 2012 05:22 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
[quote]
Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
[quote]
Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence. And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then?
Move on.
But sponsors get nothing back ? They want viewers and visibility and increased sales. So maybe instead of paying MLG I will go buy ASUS product or Intel product or Razer product or whatever, something that I will actually use for a long time and get "free" entertainment in return.
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On February 28 2012 06:27 Duravi wrote:
Twitch.tv looked totally incompetent this weekend. A completely ineffective paywall, and lag and stream drops even for those who paid. For $20 PPV the delivery should be flawless. I really hope MLG drops twitch as their stream provider.
Very much this. I don't think MLG was responsible for a lot of the issues, but twitch.tv definitely was. Honestly twitch has been having the same problems since NASL #1 with their stream being randomly unwatchablem and for me almost never watchable at 1080p despite having good internet and a good computer. I really think twitch needs to fix their streams or be dropped by every tourney organizer, it's getting really ridiculous.
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On February 28 2012 05:34 TheAlchemist89 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:22 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better. On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence. And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then? Great point, and one that has been brought up only sparsely in this thread. Monetizing the community caused an outrage, the sponsors (if they are paying attention... which they should be) will definitely take note of this. A sponsorship model is a dangerous one to live or die by. It's great to supplement ofc, but for sustainability of a small niche scene... we'll definitely want to try a few different monetization models.
No, monetizing community in this particular way caused outrage, other way not so much. And if the sponsors move away in next few years other monetization models won't save the professional scene. PPV might be nice supplementary model, but considering how easy free access to PPV streams is and will be, I do not see it working particularly well.
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On February 28 2012 06:38 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:34 TheAlchemist89 wrote:On February 28 2012 05:22 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:
[quote]
Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better. On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:
[quote]
Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence. And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then? Great point, and one that has been brought up only sparsely in this thread. Monetizing the community caused an outrage, the sponsors (if they are paying attention... which they should be) will definitely take note of this. A sponsorship model is a dangerous one to live or die by. It's great to supplement ofc, but for sustainability of a small niche scene... we'll definitely want to try a few different monetization models. No, monetizing community in this particular way caused outrage, other way not so much. And if the sponsors move away in next few years other monetization models won't save the professional scene. PPV might be nice supplementary model, but considering how easy free access to PPV streams is and will be, I do not see it working particularly well.
I agree about PPV streams not being the best business model. Even if twitch wasn't totally incompetent and could properly paywall the event (or at least make it harder to get around) there is nothing anyone can really do about chinese, russian, and polish restreams. A large amount of the people who would be interested in purchasing an online stream for an esport are familiar enough with the internet that they could also reliably find a restream. This just isn't a demographic where I see PPV streaming having a ton of success.
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On February 28 2012 06:32 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 06:27 Duravi wrote:
Twitch.tv looked totally incompetent this weekend. A completely ineffective paywall, and lag and stream drops even for those who paid. For $20 PPV the delivery should be flawless. I really hope MLG drops twitch as their stream provider. Very much this. I don't think MLG was responsible for a lot of the issues, but twitch.tv definitely was. Honestly twitch has been having the same problems since NASL #1 with their stream being randomly unwatchablem and for me almost never watchable at 1080p despite having good internet and a good computer. I really think twitch needs to fix their streams or be dropped by every tourney organizer, it's getting really ridiculous.
the problem is that twitch is still the best around so there is no real way around twitch
mlg's stream is even worse and own3d has those horrible sound issues that are really really annoying...
more on topic:
i would not pay 20$ for an event at a completely unwatchable time. also if mlg and twitch can't even manage to create a proper paywall it's absolutely their fault that more people exploited that possibility and watched without paying than there were actually paying viewers...
i watched the first 2-3 hours or so on a restream because it is simply not worth it at all for any european with a normal sleeping schedule to pay 20$
the whole system is just incredibly flawed and the event was completely overprized
if they keep doing this (fortunately for them it looks like they won't) they will just lose 90% of their viewers because i just can't imagine that many people would pay 100$ per year for 5 weekends of sc2 when there are other tournaments (maybe with a little bit lower production value but still very good and with a similar player pool) around that they can watch for free...
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I watched a restream but only for the final day as:
1. I've been trying not to watch SC2 as I'm supposed to rest my hand. Watching really makes me want to play.
2. I failed at this by watching Assembly.
3. I didn't want to shell out $20 for the final day, nor could I afford to.
Next time, I will pay the full price to watch the whole thing. I think I'll also get a gold membership, as a way of apologizing/thanking MLG for all the great content they give us.
Do I think people not paying are 'killing' eSports. No, it's like piracy of music. It hurts the record companies, but it's not killing music. I think we do need to find a way of monetizing eSports, I'm unsure whether PPV is the way to go however.
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On February 28 2012 06:27 Duravi wrote:
Twitch.tv looked totally incompetent this weekend. A completely ineffective paywall, and lag and stream drops even for those who paid. For $20 PPV the delivery should be flawless. I really hope MLG drops twitch as their stream provider.
I wonder if the paywall worked at all. A lot of people who paid complained they were getting it while tons of others watched it for free without getting it (with workaround or without).
The advice for the workaround was also "if it doesnt work, refresh" ...
Seems rather random.
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I didn't pay or watch it, but I kept up with it through the live updates on the TL site.
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What kind of dumbfounds me the most, is that people think they are "supporting esports" by helping MLG put up a moneywall around their tournaments. If MLG is going to crash and burn because they cannot run their organization efficiently enough, then let them.
The scene is still in my opinion way to small to try these kind of things and I feel I'm not at all supporting esports with my money, trying to keep up an organization that seems less efficient, more expensive and less reliable(and as an added bonus for me as European, at worse hours) from going belly up, especially when they are hindering the growth of the sport, or in the least leeching on others to do the job of growing the industry for them.
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I'm very impressed by the production value of this event. Especially the multiple streams on championship sunday were great! I will definitely pay for ppv, but only if the price is lowered to 10$... 20$ is too much, especially if you can't watch all 3 days. And just like with any other sports, I'm not going to rewatch matches that have already been played, especially after seeing the finals.
To sum up:
-Great production
-Too expensive, maybe worth it if you can watch all 3 days, but most times you aren't going to sit around for 2, let alone 3 days of games.
- I dont think there is much value in vods. It's less exciting than watching live games. So I'm not paying for those.
Btw I watched a restream at first, thereafter for free via twitch. And since I would never pay up the 20$ I don't feel guilty or anything. Now if the price goes down to 10$ Im happy to pay the 10$ and 'support' MLG.
The funny thing is, this production is probably worth the 20$, it just feels like it is too much. Since these digital broadcasts aren't 'touchable', its like paying for a concert or a day of indoor skiing or something expensive like that. 10$ feels more appropriate imo, more like paying for a movies ticket.
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Didn't pay or watch due to STephano, Polt and Hero being in that other Tournament, and that one was free, no hassle, just the act of getting up credit card, typing in numbers n shit makes me a little uneasy lol.
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I feel that there should be a Barcraft option!
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And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then?
Move on.
But sponsors get nothing back ? They want viewers and visibility and increased sales. So maybe instead of paying MLG I will go buy ASUS product or Intel product or Razer product or whatever, something that I will actually use for a long time and get "free" entertainment in return.
Precisely.
What happens when people stop tuning in? Same thing. Everything in this business has a self-life. We're waiting on two expansions (good on you Blizzard to try to prolong it). It's foolish to think we can survive without the sponsorship dollars. They receive a lot of exposure especially at the live events hosted at trade shows.
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restream and workaround. as i dont agree with the opinion of paying for this.
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Didn't pay, didn't bother with any illegal restreams or workarounds or anything.
Just read through the results after the last day.
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On February 28 2012 07:22 LayZRR wrote:
restream and workaround. as i dont agree with the opinion of paying for this.
I don't agree with the opinion of paying for food. I mean, how fucked up is that! People starve to death!
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didnt pay, didnt watch. seems fair to me. maybe replays or something will come out
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On February 28 2012 07:31 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:22 LayZRR wrote:
restream and workaround. as i dont agree with the opinion of paying for this. I don't agree with the opinion of paying for food. I mean, how fucked up is that! People starve to death!
This may be the worst analogy I've ever heard.
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On February 28 2012 06:07 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 06:04 FlyingToilet wrote:
who cares if you didn't steal anything because it wasn't worded correctly, there's no excuse for watching content people go out of their way's to put out for a little revenue, if u don't like paying then don't watch. nobody gives a fuck about your ad block or how your cool because you watched a 20$ stream for free, don't try and act like you should be in a discussion if you didn't even bother to respect the people who put that content out there for you on their own free time... you're a valiant white knight. you're a rare breed in this online climate to have never downloaded a movie, music or videogame. What a saint you are to not only the economy but to the moral justice of the internets. keep fighting the good fight!
lol thanks, i do go out of my way to pay for the things i want, maybe some youtube videos if i cant afford a single, but at least my morals are not in the toilet like most people on the internet...
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On February 28 2012 07:31 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 07:22 LayZRR wrote:
restream and workaround. as i dont agree with the opinion of paying for this. I don't agree with the opinion of paying for food. I mean, how fucked up is that! People starve to death!
Belive it or not but there are people in this world that do this exactly. They dont buy food, they "steal" the waste of the supermarktes because they disagree with food being thrown away.
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EPT
