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On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:On February 28 2012 04:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 03:56 Chenz wrote:
I'll pay for MLG events (or rather, start paying again) the day that they start airing their finals one or two hours earlier. Isn't the amount of European viewers you would gain by doing that worth it, or is Europe such a small market? how early do you want them to start? They started at 10:30am local time after going pretty late the night before. You really want players starting early in the morning after playing late into the night? Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals. Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in.
Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it.
And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better.
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I didn't even know about any workarounds, I just elected not to watch until next weekend when all the vods will be up free =)
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On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:On February 28 2012 04:04 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 03:56 Chenz wrote:
I'll pay for MLG events (or rather, start paying again) the day that they start airing their finals one or two hours earlier. Isn't the amount of European viewers you would gain by doing that worth it, or is Europe such a small market? how early do you want them to start? They started at 10:30am local time after going pretty late the night before. You really want players starting early in the morning after playing late into the night? Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals. Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in.
What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence.
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On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:On February 28 2012 04:04 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
how early do you want them to start? They started at 10:30am local time after going pretty late the night before. You really want players starting early in the morning after playing late into the night? Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals. Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better.
On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:On February 28 2012 04:04 jmbthirteen wrote:
[quote]
how early do you want them to start? They started at 10:30am local time after going pretty late the night before. You really want players starting early in the morning after playing late into the night? Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals. Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence.
And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then?
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On February 28 2012 05:22 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
[quote]
Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
[quote]
Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence. And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then?
Great point, and one that has been brought up only sparsely in this thread. Monetizing the community caused an outrage, the sponsors (if they are paying attention... which they should be) will definitely take note of this. A sponsorship model is a dangerous one to live or die by. It's great to supplement ofc, but for sustainability of a small niche scene... we'll definitely want to try a few different monetization models.
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meh they only lost $13k to the 699 non paying viewers. i only wish i was able to run sc2, because im sure id have a few friends on my f list that knew how to do it and would have mentioned it to me when i say: "fuck i have no credit card for this" oh well.
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the same every sportsclub in the world will do without sponors.....
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Watched last day at a barcraft.
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Paid but doubt I would again tbh, I had issues watching live as video would freeze for 2-5 seconds every now and then, sound wouldn't freeze though and I just got annoyed with it in the end and watched the vods of what I wanted to watch, I didn't really get my money worth in my opinion.
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I watched at a Barcraft on Sunday. I didn't use any Google Chrome Incognito or cookie workarounds, but at one point (about 2 hours) on Saturday night I was able to watch for free. I wasn't even intending to, but it just started playing and never brought up the Subscribe screen for me.
I would have paid the 20 dollars if I knew I wasn't going to Barcraft (20 dollars for that) or if I was able to watch the first day's action.
In the future I'll probably buy it at 20 dollars, but would prefer 15 or 10.
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On February 28 2012 05:15 Fix637 wrote:
I didn't even know about any workarounds, I just elected not to watch until next weekend when all the vods will be up free =)
Me too. IMHO watching the live tweets and refreshing Liquidpedia was enough for me.
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I only did the reading, wasn't worth watching to me without White-Ra. Might've been epic games, but the threads add another basing of adrenaline.
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On February 28 2012 05:22 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:12 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
[quote]
Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. Come on, just look at NASLs product. If they weren't losing money this world would need to learn economy from the guys running it. And why would I try to resuscitate an almost dying MLG when Dreamhack and IGN have a more interesting business plan to cover more games and at the end bring a way more better product? They are just better. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 05:15 mcc wrote:On February 28 2012 05:06 mvtaylor wrote:On February 28 2012 04:49 Merlimoo wrote:On February 28 2012 04:37 Talack wrote:On February 28 2012 04:27 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 28 2012 04:18 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 28 2012 04:15 Klondikebar wrote:On February 28 2012 04:09 Chenz wrote:
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Don't show all games, start earlier on the Friday, start on Thursday or reduce downtime. It's not impossible, but I'm not saying it's feasible either. All I know is that it's quite hard to motivate yourself to spend $20 on an event and then being unable to watch the finals.
Also, it might be possible to have the event go Thursday to Saturday, that would also make the events more EU friendly. Just for the record, MLG is an American tournament so their schedule is probably always going to be tailored for American audiences. This is true for every continent. Assembly wasn't exactly American friendly and GSL requires us to be nocturnal. Not trying to say "screw the Euros!" but just saying that tournament schedules are going to be tailored for a specific audience. Don't care when it starts but don't charge me the same as the target audience. Well then I don't want to pay the same thing for GSL. It starts at 1 a.m for me and is over by 6 a.m. on long days. GSL is not complaining about not making money so they might not care since they already are the best tournament. MLG is far from GLS so they shouldn't be in a position where they don't treat their clients with interest. Also GSL is not as rare as MLG so the live experience is a more important aspect that should cost more. If I am watching vods ( vods mind you, nor rebroadcast cause MLG doesn't do that) why should I pay the same as USA that felt the hype in the middle of the day? IPL, GSL, NASTL and MLG are all losing money. MLG is just the only one publicly reaching out to the audience. Thoses are the facts... according to MLG... :S NASL is most definitely losing money. Without doubt. They had enough funding to do three seasons and therefore they're doing them. but if you look at who sponsors them, the quality of their production and the number of people who bought their HD passes / paid to come to the venue they cannot be making money to cover the prize pool, let alone hire venues and pay casters... How many casters did the NASL Season 2 final have? Day9, Wheat, Rotti, Bitter, Husky, orb, gretorp, thegunrun and diggity... 9 casters and 16 players? IPL is also clearly losing money. Hosting a 20k online tournament which is watched (at peak!) by 20k people (for something like EG/Liquid) and around 10k all other times while only making money from chucking ads up... As others have said, total loss leader for IGN MLG has honestly admitted they are losing money and I think they definitely are from their championship events, why on earth they decided to pick up Halo for another year is beyond me, that thing is dead and buried. However from this event I honestly do think they've made money. I would conservatively estimate at least 10,000 people paid. So that's $200k in with expenditures being the $26k prize pool, paying the casters, setting their office up to host the event (not renting a venue!) and finally player transport and accommodation costs. I would also expect they got a bit of extra cash from sponsorships, NOS performance station this, NOS analysis centre that. I do not think GSL is losing money, given the number of people that pay, the size of the prize pool and their relatively low costs along with additional income from being on TV in Korea. Although not mentioned here I am unsure on IEM / Assembly / DreamHack... as all three have a LAN side attached I guess this heavily subsidizes the cost. I think it is important to have a foreign based tournament that is sustainable and the model for MLG Arenas seems exactly that. If they were to lower the price a bit and tighten up loopholes so people have to actually pay to watch then I see a bright future for Arena events, especially if they manage to get a location outside of NY and get spectators in. What do you mean by losing money ? Of course they are "losing" money, they are funded by sponsors (not all, those that are not are really losing money). MLG is trying to go beyond sponsor model, that does not mean the sponsor model is not working. With sponsor model you get as much as sponsors are willing to give and there is no "losing money" other than to incompetence. And what happens when sponsors stop throwing their money at these other tournaments when they get almost nothing back? What do IPL, NASL, IEM and Assembly do then?
Who said they get almost nothing back? They get the chance to reach exactly the audience they want to. Young/adult males. Thats why you dont see LEGO sponsoring one of these tournaments. Take for example Steelseries or Razor, i think they both took huge profit out of Esport. Now assume Steelseries wouldnt have sponsored a single tournament/team/player out there. Do you think any kid out there would have choosen a Steelseries over a Razor product when all their favorite progamers tell them that using Razor is the way to go pro?
Same goes for Intel, they are sponsoring the ESL now for nearly a decade, which includes ESL,EPS Germany and IEM. Dont think they would be still in it, if its a bad buisness decision for them. Its just cheap commercial to the audience they want to reach. Thats why they dont sponsor Console-Esports but PC oriented gaming.
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why is everyone so seamingly scared of tournaments dying? It's going to happen.. Whocares if NASL, IPL, MLG or whoever else aren't 'making a profit'. If they don't they will die and others will spawn. If this '$20 PPV weekend' method is the only way to have sponsorless sustainability like some of you seem to have bought into, then guess what, esports is already dead.
sponsors will always exist and ppv exclusive content won't work, seeing as most people paid to 'support' esports rather than feeling $20 is worthwhile for the product in todays sc2 climate all those 'support' esports people did was create artificial value. You aren't going to run a major esports business when >50% of the consumers are buying a charity and to 'support' something.
Of course im pulling these numbers out of my ass but I doubt they're far off after reading all the threads on this topic.
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who cares if you didn't steal anything because it wasn't worded correctly, there's no excuse for watching content people go out of their way's to put out for a little revenue, if u don't like paying then don't watch. nobody gives a fuck about your ad block or how your cool because you watched a 20$ stream for free, don't try and act like you should be in a discussion if you didn't even bother to respect the people who put that content out there for you on their own free time...
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On February 28 2012 06:04 FlyingToilet wrote:
who cares if you didn't steal anything because it wasn't worded correctly, there's no excuse for watching content people go out of their way's to put out for a little revenue, if u don't like paying then don't watch. nobody gives a fuck about your ad block or how your cool because you watched a 20$ stream for free, don't try and act like you should be in a discussion if you didn't even bother to respect the people who put that content out there for you on their own free time...
you're a valiant white knight. you're a rare breed in this online climate to have never downloaded a movie, music or videogame. What a saint you are to not only the economy but to the moral justice of the internets. keep fighting the good fight!
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Can't believe people are still bitching about PPV. Either you think it's worth it and you buy it or you shut the fu** up......
I bought the pass and i am definitly _not_ regretting it.
Hell when i think on what other crap i spend 15€ on...
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If the combined polls are representative, MLG could easily have maintained their profits even at half the cost because enough people were interested in paying to see it (roughly 25% of the OP poll), but found $20 too steep or were skeptical that it would be worth a full $20. In addition, I think that there would have been fewer re-streams/fewer people propagating info on workarounds in general as a consequence of more people watching legitimately. As the combined polls seem to represent, there will always be a number of people (I'm guessing 10-15% of those polled) that will continue to watch without paying, really not enough to justify a rate hike that will encourage more people not to watch.
For my part, I didn't pay and didn't watch, but did follow the results closely. I would have liked to watch, but I didn't have time to justify $20 worth of content (15 with my gold discount, which has only got me one or two events so far [both of which I've mostly missed due to conflicts] as I paid for the previous several events a la carte). If it had been $10 I would have gladly paid, but I think $5 would have been a much more reasonable cost for gold members and I feel that I've been mostly scammed out of my money as it is with only four free (for gold members) events this season, of which only maybe three will fall within the time frame before my gold account expires.
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Really, I think MLG would've made so much more money if it was only 15$.
20$ sounds like a big investment while 15$ sounds like something cheap...
And as I've said before, why don't they just include these events in their normal membership and then up the price by a few dollars?
Also, I'll never pay 20$ as long as the finals start somewhere in the middle of the night for Europe.
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Twitch.tv looked totally incompetent this weekend. A completely ineffective paywall, and lag and stream drops even for those who paid. For $20 PPV the delivery should be flawless. I really hope MLG drops twitch as their stream provider.
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EPT
