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On February 27 2012 14:41 Chill wrote:
Barcraft. There wasn't an option for this.
This + the fact that we have no way of quantifying the voters in this thread to actual viewership ratio (unless MLG realeases the numbers) makes this poll very inaccurate.
The majority of people who bought the pass will probably be on TL while the more casual MLG viewer (that most likely didn't want to pay up) doesn't come here and vote in polls.
If I'm not wrong MLG gets something like 75-100k viewers on their normal events. Even if this thread has 5k votes it will not be even remotely close to being accurate or representative. If MLG releases the viewership numbers for this event we can compare those to a normal MLG event and draw conclusions from that. The only conclusion we can draw from this thread is how many of the hard core TL fans that took part in this event.
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I love how ppl call it "a work-around". Thats how I normally browse, with ad-block and cookies disabled. So I checked out twitch out of curiosity and was all "wtf". But I only ended up watching the semis due to time zone issues. Tourney had a good production value though the stream was a bit laggy. Seemed worth 20 bucks but I'm not gonna pay since I wont be able to watch next time either.
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I wish there was a way that TL could find out who voted in the poll saying they watched a restream and simply ban them.
If you don't want to pay for a product as you don't think it's value for money then fine. But don't go out of your way to steal it as you believe you are entitled to it or are teaching X a lesson, that's the sort of reason why so many music groups that aren't pop/radio friendly struggle so hard to make ends meet these days.
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On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
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On February 27 2012 14:31 Ghostfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:19 Konaa wrote:
One demographic I think MLG and all the "pay or you're dirty scum" people are forgetting about is the younger audience. Nobody is going to get their parents to let them pay $20 with their credit card to watch people play a video game, and most young people don't have credit cards. Anyone under 18 or so is basically forced to watch with the bug or watch a restream if they want to enjoy the event, even if they're willing to pay for it. wtf? Kids now a days have more money than ever. All of these kids are playing on computers that they either paid for or their parents bought them. If the kid really wants to watch it and doesn't have money of their own then they can work something out with their parents where they do more chores or something. Also that demographic of kids with no money isn't valuable at all and MLG doesn't miss them much honestly. I disagree with you there. I'm under 18 and nobody I know paid to watch MLG, they all used restreams or other methods. They probably could've paid seeing as how we see in a rather wealthy area, but they didn't. Many parents also don't enjoy throwing their credit card information online and prefer to keep in right in front of them in person.
It's funny how you can be ostracized for paying for something legally.
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The polls in these threads are worthless I have no idea why people would even waste web server memory on the text characters to mention them.
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On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Making all of your quality content PPV is a dumb business decision, which ends up killing your viewership.
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On February 27 2012 14:51 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:41 Chill wrote:
Barcraft. There wasn't an option for this. This + the fact that we have no way of quantifying the voters in this thread to actual viewership ratio (unless MLG realeases the numbers) makes this poll very inaccurate. The majority of people who bought the pass will probably be on TL while the more casual MLG viewer (that most likely didn't want to pay up) doesn't come here and vote in polls. If I'm not wrong MLG gets something like 75-100k viewers on their normal events. Even if this thread has 5k votes it will not be even remotely close to being accurate or representative. If MLG releases the viewership numbers for this event we can compare those to a normal MLG event and draw conclusions from that. The only conclusion we can draw from this thread is how many of the hard core TL fans that took part in this event.
This poll won't be accurate because of sampling error. In terms of n, 5% of a population is more than enough to generate an accurate sample. TL posters won't necessarily be representative of course.
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IDK why people are complaining about cheese. Cheese is what keeps the series' interesting.
I saw a few games on a restream and nothing I saw justified that price. I'd pay $5 tops.
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On February 27 2012 14:53 mvtaylor wrote:
I wish there was a way that TL could find out who voted in the poll saying they watched a restream and simply ban them.
If you don't want to pay for a product as you don't think it's value for money then fine. But don't go out of your way to steal it as you believe you are entitled to it or are teaching X a lesson, that's the sort of reason why so many music groups that aren't pop/radio friendly struggle so hard to make ends meet these days.
yes, lets ban people for being honest. yeah, let's anger the TL community members and maybe TL will lose some ad revenue for less users, sounds great.
give me a break.
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On February 27 2012 14:54 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive. Making all of your quality content PPV is a dumb business decision, which ends up killing your viewership.
Can you point to a particular example in another industry that supports this statement? Because boxing and MMA sure don't.
High viewership is meaningless without sufficient revenue.
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On February 27 2012 14:53 Ghost.573 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive. Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
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I despise all of the people that worked around the paywall
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On February 27 2012 14:54 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive. Making all of your quality content PPV is a dumb business decision, which ends up killing your viewership.
I agree, its what I said pretty much. You can't go full PPV, but you can have some PPV events.
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Used workaround like all my bros. I like Dota 2 more now than sc2 due to legit esports support from the developer.
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I valued the 20$ more than the product which I could buy with them hence I did not pay for the product.
I know that some are fundamentally against intellectual property and I personally feel no moral guilt in consuming non-rivalrous and non-excludable goods so if we tuned in on a pirated stream / did the workaround – we also slept well at night this wekend.
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On February 27 2012 14:53 mvtaylor wrote:
I wish there was a way that TL could find out who voted in the poll saying they watched a restream and simply ban them.
If you don't want to pay for a product as you don't think it's value for money then fine. But don't go out of your way to steal it as you believe you are entitled to it or are teaching X a lesson, that's the sort of reason why so many music groups that aren't pop/radio friendly struggle so hard to make ends meet these days.
The reason why many music groups that aren't pop/radio friendly are struggling is because either they make music that isn't that good or they are shit at online promotion (which is really fucking easy). Itunes and social media removed the last excuse for bad musicians to blame others for their musical failure.
As for the pirate streams I agree fully. Don't watch it at all if you can't afford it. If anything you're giving MLG inflated viewership numbers by doing so. I didn't personally watch this because I don't think it was worth the money. That's mostly because I'm not one of those people that enjoy every single game at an MLG. I watch maybe 5-10 games maximum in normal MLG events so obviously this wouldn't be worth it for me.
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On February 27 2012 14:45 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:37 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 14:28 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:26 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 14:24 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:22 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 14:19 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:18 Xpace wrote:On February 27 2012 13:54 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 13:41 Xpace wrote:[quote] Wait, what? Almost half in the poll said they didn't watch it. From that we can infer that they didn't know about the broken paywall, and that they simply didn't watch the tournament. How is people not watching MLG making it successful for them? Look at this new thread. People not watching MLG means it's unsuccessful, and Sundance saying there's going to be an event in June doesn't necessarily mean this particular model of $20 PPV was a success. He could announce that MLG would go back to its original methods for all we know. Assuming they fix the broken paywall, 20% viewership is terrible. Does nobody remember MLG announcing record-breaking viewership after Providence? More viewers means more exposure, more exposure means growth of esports, growth of esports means more people getting into watching and/or playing SC2. It's even worse when other tournaments like Assembly (that ran at roughly the same time) and the newly announced IPL4 is providing very similar, high-quality content for free. So yes, it does matter when people say they would pay if the price is lower. It doesn't matter the individual isn't telling the truth, what matters is there's a LOT of these comments, so the general idea is definitely way more popular than maintaining this $20 PPV model. Actually, for PPV 20% is a really good result. Go listen to the latest state of the game and educate yourself. That said, I would expect the next event to be $15 and the numbers compared. There will be a sweet spot where you get the max number of viewers who are interested in watching it while making the most profit. I could see future events dropping to $15, then $10, then back up to $15 as MLG work it out. It's a good result from a ___________ standpoint. Go fill in the blank. business? yeah MLG is running a business. Thought everyone knew this. How is this a problem? A good business makes money. A great business grows. And having some PPV events means MLG won't grow? No it doesn't. I've only read about three threads with polls (two threads too many, to be honest) regarding the PPV. The polls don't show growth. But MLG isn't doing just PPV events. These Arena's aren't meant to grow the company, they are meant to help sustain the company. Their championship events are where growth happens. They put out quite a bit of free content to help growth. As a lot of people have voiced before, MLG may continue with this model for all their future events if this is truly a successful venture. Thats not what is happening right now. Its complete speculation. All we know right now is that Arenas are PPV (which may change, some may be PPV some may be free) and all Championship events are free. MLG may be able to sell rights to broadcast their tournament next year to ESPN for all we know.
This is a really interesting point.
MLG actually have the ability to say "PPV SC2 events is worth this much money". Actual facts to ESPN or anyone else for that matter.
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On February 27 2012 14:57 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:53 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:47 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 27 2012 14:40 Ghost.573 wrote:On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote:
People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient. Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while. Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive. Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there. If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
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On February 27 2012 14:54 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:51 StarBrift wrote:On February 27 2012 14:41 Chill wrote:
Barcraft. There wasn't an option for this. This + the fact that we have no way of quantifying the voters in this thread to actual viewership ratio (unless MLG realeases the numbers) makes this poll very inaccurate. The majority of people who bought the pass will probably be on TL while the more casual MLG viewer (that most likely didn't want to pay up) doesn't come here and vote in polls. If I'm not wrong MLG gets something like 75-100k viewers on their normal events. Even if this thread has 5k votes it will not be even remotely close to being accurate or representative. If MLG releases the viewership numbers for this event we can compare those to a normal MLG event and draw conclusions from that. The only conclusion we can draw from this thread is how many of the hard core TL fans that took part in this event. This poll won't be accurate because of sampling error. In terms of n, 5% of a population is more than enough to generate an accurate sample. TL posters won't necessarily be representative of course.
That's the whole point. TL represents the hardcore scene. Almost no casual viewers will read or post on TL. I know about 10 people that watches events such as MLG. None of them except me browse TL.
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EPT
