I mostly watched Assembly but did catch a bit of MLG using the private browsing workaround. Ultimately, SC2 is more or less a casual pastime that I watch if I've got free time and nothing better to do. I don't consider it worth money to watch. If the industry moves away from free to watch, then I'll simply stop watching and be content with that.
That being said, I thought it was pretty lame that in spite of the high price point, MLG failed to include anywhere near the same level of extra content/backstage stuff that there was at IPL3, and the lack of any sort of crowd certainly dulled the atmosphere.
On February 27 2012 15:16 thezanursic wrote: People who watched the stream for free should be ashamed. I didnt pay so I didnt watch. Have some decency next time...
clearly a white knight. I would hope you don't pirate with that attitude or watch things on youtube, like music, that are copy right infringement.
Youtube is pretty legitimate now. Any video that companies request be taken down are taken down or muted etc. Vevo on the other hand has the rights to post the music. Vevo obviously is mostly used via youtube.
On February 27 2012 10:26 Detrimentally wrote: Fuck all of the people that worked around the paywall.
You're a corporate shill, and its you that is killing esports by swallowing an inferior product and paying for it.
If by inferior product you are referring to the tournament that set the bar for production, then yes. Minus a few minor glitches lasting no more than 10 minutes over 80 hours of content, MLG > GSL > DreamHack > IPL > NASL.
On February 27 2012 15:18 forsooth wrote: I mostly watched Assembly but did catch a bit of MLG using the private browsing workaround. Ultimately, SC2 is more or less a casual pastime that I watch if I've got free time and nothing better to do. I don't consider it worth money to watch. If the industry moves away from free to watch, then I'll simply stop watching and be content with that.
That being said, I thought it was pretty lame that in spite of the high price point, MLG failed to include anywhere near the same level of extra content/backstage stuff that there was at IPL3, and the lack of any sort of crowd certainly dulled the atmosphere.
lack of crowd, probably a reason why MKP did so well
On February 27 2012 15:11 StarStruck wrote: You guys need to stop comparing this to the UFC. The scale isn't even remotely close and the communities are entirely different.
Do you realize how wrong you are? By charging at all they are restricting it to 18+ or kids with parents willing to pay.
Yeah that is true. I am 17 years old and due to not having the correct credit card to use paypal I cant watch, but being younger than 18 does not mean the person wouldnt pay to watch the event. I would suggest that MLG adds a new way to pay for the arena like PSC I dont know how widely accessible it is, but something like that could work.
Meh, anyone who went to a barcraft can't talk shit about restreams. You spent your $20 getting drunk instead of paying for the game, so did I. You watched with about 50 people in a private venue, so did I. Someone paid for the video you watched, and someone paid for the video I watched. The only restream I could find that had 1000 people or more, was full commentary in russian. All the pure english restreams were ~100 or less, just like a barcraft would be.
So many people butthurt about esports, but honestly, Its not like those are lost sales - those are people who would never have bought it. A lot of people forget that a large portion of sc2 fans are people with maybe $20 leisure money for a week (that includes fast food, booze, movies, other SC2 leagues, etc).
Good on the people who paid, I hope the event financially was a success.
On February 27 2012 15:11 StarStruck wrote: You guys need to stop comparing this to the UFC. The scale isn't even remotely close and the communities are entirely different.
you might be right about the difference in scale but communities?
please, both target audiences are 18-30 year olds.
stop the stupid generalizations. Like I said it's different in every aspect. The only thing you are pointing at is demographics.
By the same token, the fighting game community is a lot different from the RTS gamers as well.
On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote: People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient.
Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while.
Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
You say that UFC is thriving and it may be economically. But it's miniscule in terms of viewership. That model works especially well for them because their product is really targeted at males from 18-40 or something like that. They're not looking to grab kids or laeger quantities of women because they know they can't with that kind of entertainment. Sc2 however does not restrict itself to young adult males.
SC2 is utterly 100% mainly watched by young adult males.
On February 27 2012 15:11 StarStruck wrote: You guys need to stop comparing this to the UFC. The scale isn't even remotely close and the communities are entirely different.
Do you realize how wrong you are? By charging at all they are restricting it to 18+ or kids with parents willing to pay.
Yeah that is true. I am 17 years old and due to not having the correct credit card to use paypal I cant watch, but being younger than 18 does not mean the person wouldnt pay to watch the event. I would suggest that MLG adds a new way to pay for the arena like PSC I dont know how widely accessible it is, but something like that could work.
PSC-PaySafeCard
Well its more that the majority below 18 don't have access to any online payment method w/o a Credit card or debit card. Most parents also won't pay $20 for their child to watch a video game for 3 days.
On February 27 2012 15:16 thezanursic wrote: People who watched the stream for free should be ashamed. I didnt pay so I didnt watch. Have some decency next time...
clearly a white knight. I would hope you don't pirate with that attitude or watch things on youtube, like music, that are copy right infringement.
Youtube is pretty legitimate now. Any video that companies request be taken down are taken down or muted etc. Vevo on the other hand has the rights to post the music. Vevo obviously is mostly used via youtube.
so you're telling me that let's say, if I wanted to go on youtube and search power glove, that I wouldn't get free access to their music? plenty of music out there that isn't vevo believe it or not.
On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote: People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient.
Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while.
Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
You say that UFC is thriving and it may be economically. But it's miniscule in terms of viewership. That model works especially well for them because their product is really targeted at males from 18-40 or something like that. They're not looking to grab kids or laeger quantities of women because they know they can't with that kind of entertainment. Sc2 however does not restrict itself to young adult males.
SC2 is utterly 100% mainly watched by young adult males.
Stopped watching immediatly after the "insert 20 bucks" sign popped up. Stop pretending a 20$ stream for a 3 day tournament is helping esports to grow. No one who isnt into sc2 would ever will to pay 20$. Not giving a free low quality stream is just a joke and hurting esports just as much as stealing the stream does.
On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote: People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient.
Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while.
Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
You say that UFC is thriving and it may be economically. But it's miniscule in terms of viewership. That model works especially well for them because their product is really targeted at males from 18-40 or something like that. They're not looking to grab kids or laeger quantities of women because they know they can't with that kind of entertainment. Sc2 however does not restrict itself to young adult males.
SC2 is utterly 100% mainly watched by young adult males.
My point was that the product itself does not cater to young men specifically. Young men is the majority of viewers (allthough your argument fall apart when you consider the vast ammount of teen guys that can't pay for PPV) but there is nothing in the actual game that is repellant to women (except maybe booth girls but they aren't abundant). UFC is based on fighting (something that almost only men enjoy watching) and they have such things as bikini babes as part of the entertainment. They have simply conceeded any oppurtunity to grow a female market.
Sc2 may not be played by a lot of women but look into a crowd at MLG and I'll wager you'll see atleast 10% women which is good if you consider the enourmous skew of male to female players in the game.
What I'm saying is that UFC targets a very specific type of people to buy their product. The sc2 scene is trying to grow and diversify and that also encompasses bringing in more women etc. If they were to add booth babes to every tournament most people would consider that a bad buissness move since they are alienating an untapped potential female fanbase (which has been proven to exist in brood war by the way). Why is it that the same type of limiting of the scene that removes any potential viewership from the lower socio economic buyer is percieved as a non-problem?
Lastly TL does not represent the entirety of people that follow MLG or other sc2 events. Most casual viewers do not hang here at all and I would assume many of those are women.
On February 27 2012 15:16 thezanursic wrote: People who watched the stream for free should be ashamed. I didnt pay so I didnt watch. Have some decency next time...
clearly a white knight. I would hope you don't pirate with that attitude or watch things on youtube, like music, that are copy right infringement.
Youtube is pretty legitimate now. Any video that companies request be taken down are taken down or muted etc. Vevo on the other hand has the rights to post the music. Vevo obviously is mostly used via youtube.
so you're telling me that let's say, if I wanted to go on youtube and search power glove, that I wouldn't get free access to their music? plenty of music out there that isn't vevo believe it or not.
Not at all. I just said that if said music is asked to be taken off then it will be. Although the only bands that have the privilege of doing so are good ones or basically ones with money. I have never heard of said band and I am sure many others haven't as well. If a band is not in a big spotlight than in all honesty being on youtube is a blessing. W/o youtube many bands would be known only to their tiny little niche of people and never grow. Ya it sucks but its the truth. Their are plenty of videos I have seen that I decided to look up the song and buy it because I liked it. Without youtube I would have never heard of the bands.
Watched whole event legally without paying anything. Sub par event. I really dont understand how cutting into silver-gold leaguers to give strategic insight between games is an exelent way to fill downtime, and doing that they raised the bar of production value?
On February 27 2012 15:21 darkscream wrote: Meh, anyone who went to a barcraft can't talk shit about restreams. You spent your $20 getting drunk instead of paying for the game, so did I. You watched with about 50 people in a private venue, so did I. Someone paid for the video you watched, and someone paid for the video I watched. The only restream I could find that had 1000 people or more, was full commentary in russian. All the pure english restreams were ~100 or less, just like a barcraft would be.
So many people butthurt about esports, but honestly, Its not like those are lost sales - those are people who would never have bought it. A lot of people forget that a large portion of sc2 fans are people with maybe $20 leisure money for a week (that includes fast food, booze, movies, other SC2 leagues, etc).
Good on the people who paid, I hope the event financially was a success.
You have failed in looking. One re-stream topped at 4.5k viewers. Which was about 25% of twitch viewers watching MLG. Still. I feel bad for people who paid for this arena. It looks like they get shafted like the gold members. MLG failed to deliver stable stream for the finals of day 3 (i know its twitch fault) and even couldn't secure the tight pay-wall. Not to mention that it failed at taking down re-streams.
On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote: People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient.
Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while.
Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
You say that UFC is thriving and it may be economically. But it's miniscule in terms of viewership. That model works especially well for them because their product is really targeted at males from 18-40 or something like that. They're not looking to grab kids or laeger quantities of women because they know they can't with that kind of entertainment. Sc2 however does not restrict itself to young adult males.
SC2 is utterly 100% mainly watched by young adult males.
On February 27 2012 15:21 darkscream wrote: Meh, anyone who went to a barcraft can't talk shit about restreams. You spent your $20 getting drunk instead of paying for the game, so did I. You watched with about 50 people in a private venue, so did I. Someone paid for the video you watched, and someone paid for the video I watched. The only restream I could find that had 1000 people or more, was full commentary in russian. All the pure english restreams were ~100 or less, just like a barcraft would be.
So many people butthurt about esports, but honestly, Its not like those are lost sales - those are people who would never have bought it. A lot of people forget that a large portion of sc2 fans are people with maybe $20 leisure money for a week (that includes fast food, booze, movies, other SC2 leagues, etc).
Good on the people who paid, I hope the event financially was a success.
You have failed in looking. One re-stream topped at 4.5k viewers. Still. I feel bad for people who paid for this arena. It looks like they get shafted like the gold members. MLG failed to deliver stable stream for the finals of day 3 (i know its twitch fault) and even couldn't secure the tight pay-wall. Not to mention that it failed at taking down re-streams.
Streams from western Europe are impossible to take down.
On February 27 2012 14:35 Femari wrote: People are quick to forget that this is an addition to what MLG already did. They're not taking things you got for free prior to this away, they're adding more and saying "Hey, we're adding more and trying to grow, if you think it's worth the price then buy it, if not then have a good day and tune into the free events."
It was first and foremost an experiment to see if they can monetize the community to some point. I mean wouldn't you guys think it was awesome if all these leagues like MLG, GSL, IPL, IEM, etc were adding more things for you but kept their regular events free? If you can afford it you buy it. I bought a pass for MLG Arena and then I also went to a Barcraft for the finals. I know some people can't afford it but hey if you can and you think it's worth it then why not?
This wasn't ever going to turn every event into a PPV. I don't know why people thought that but this was going to happen at some point. MLG just tried it first. It was an experiment, it was successful, they're trying it again. Who knows it may be $15 next time. But it's not the end of the world. MLG is just trying to make everything self-sufficient.
Its not that we think it was set in stone to be PPV always, but that any smart business will do so if it was a big success. If they got much higher numbers than even they expected than don't be surprised to see their Circuit to start being PPV only after a while.
Except every tournament realizes if everyone goes PPV it cant be sustained since there isn't that much money the community is willing to spend. Competition would be fierce and only a few would survive.
Which is exactly what i said a few pages back. Thats the deal though. If the company sees that it can make money this way than it will try. They may know that not every tournament can do it, but that is perfect for businesses. If they can monopolize or get close to it than they will make the majority of the money from the game. Its good for business but bad for SC2. I realize its stretching, but it is a logical path that this could go if the tools are there.
If every company is dumb enough to make all their stuff PPV then only the strong deserve to survive.
As many others have pointed out, UFC seems to be thriving just great off of PPV. If you can make money doing it, than do it. If MLG made a good profit, they will do it again and it is a slippery slope then. Yes they may lose their viewers, and if so they will go back to the old model. However, if they don't lose too many then it will be PPV always. Basically if they profit enough of of this arena, I don't think they would think twice about trying it with the circuit.
You say that UFC is thriving and it may be economically. But it's miniscule in terms of viewership. That model works especially well for them because their product is really targeted at males from 18-40 or something like that. They're not looking to grab kids or laeger quantities of women because they know they can't with that kind of entertainment. Sc2 however does not restrict itself to young adult males.
SC2 is utterly 100% mainly watched by young adult males.
My point was that the product itself does not cater to young men specifically. Young men is the majority of viewers (allthough your argument fall apart when you consider the vast ammount of teen guys that can't pay for PPV) but there is nothing in the actual game that is repellant to women (except maybe booth girls but they aren't abundant). UFC is based on fighting (something that almost only men enjoy watching) and they have such things as bikini babes as part of the entertainment. They have simply conceeded any oppurtunity to grow a female market.
Sc2 may not be played by a lot of women but look into a crowd at MLG and I'll wager you'll see atleast 10% women which is good if you consider the enourmous skew of male to female players in the game.
What I'm saying is that UFC targets a very specific type of people to buy their product. The sc2 scene is trying to grow and diversify and that also encompasses bringing in more women etc. If they were to add booth babes to every tournament most people would consider that a bad buissness move since they are alienating an untapped potential female fanbase (which has been proven to exist in brood war by the way). Why is it that the same type of limiting of the scene that removes any potential viewership from the lower socio economic buyer is percieved as a non-problem?
Lastly TL does not represent the entirety of people that follow MLG or other sc2 events. Most casual viewers do not hang here at all and I would assume many of those are women.
I see maybe a 2:1 ratio of guys to women every time I see a live shot of the crowd. LOTS of women there, you don't think they were all forced by their BF's/Husbands to go there do you?
EPT
