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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
On February 23 2012 05:10 Gheed wrote: I thought this was common knowledge. You can easily test it by just watching a mule; it clearly dies on its way back with the last load of minerals. Always? | ||
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:51 ThatGuy89 wrote: i remember a while ago, there was a korean terran who would sometimes stop a mule from mining, cos he knew that it wouldnt get back intime with those minerals and would just lose them. Obviously thats a ridiculous amount of APM and awareness to know how to do that, but im guessing some of the top top terran players will know where and when to drop mules That's pretty sick, to be honest. I suppose that mules do waste minerals when they "expire", I never really thought about that. I don't know how many trips mules make from and to the mineral patches, but they lose a pretty significant fraction of their total amount if they die with minerals in their hands. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45246 Posts
I think if you don't drop it on the closest patches, it always dies with one fewer finished trip. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:51 ThatGuy89 wrote: i remember a while ago, there was a korean terran who would sometimes stop a mule from mining, cos he knew that it wouldnt get back intime with those minerals and would just lose them. Obviously thats a ridiculous amount of APM and awareness to know how to do that, but im guessing some of the top top terran players will know where and when to drop mules That was likely fOrGG. I saw Mvp do this too on some replays. It's only at the beginning of the game, obviously. | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:28 drgoats wrote: There was a thread about this and it was decided that you should only drop mules on the far patches. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=237419 Damn I've been doing it wrong for months then. Thanks everyone for the tip  | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45246 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:12 wunsun wrote: Should you drop mules on blue minerals every time? I mean, if you just got a gold base up, should you drop mules on your gold so that your natural (or previous expos) don't mine out too fast? You should never drop MULEs on gold bases anymore (unless there are no other minerals left on the map), as scvs give additional high-yield resources for mining gold bases but MULEs always give the same amount. If you drop MULEs on gold bases, then you're stealing away bonus minerals that scvs could be mining. Only drop MULEs on blue bases. | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
If you have the APM to stop the mule before it mines the last trip on a close patch then close patch will get you money faster If you don't have the APM then I would use the far patches because otherwise your permanently wasting minerals each mule. So use the far patch. Even if you do have the APM. Those actions could probably be more useful doing something else unless it's like your first couple mules and it's really easy to pay attention when you need to pull them off | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: You should never drop MULEs on gold bases anymore (unless there are no other minerals left on the map), as scvs give additional high-yield resources for mining gold bases but MULEs always give the same amount. If you drop MULEs on gold bases, then you're stealing away bonus minerals that scvs could be mining. Only drop MULEs on blue bases. I am not sure I understand. My understanding is that mules have a hard cap on the minerals that they can mine. If you drop it, you do not get the bonus, while on blue, you do get the bonus. So, you don't really lose any actual minerals, though you do not get the bonus, so in affect, your minerals mined per minutes are lowered. However, my situation was similar to when you expand, you drop all mules on your natural to keep the patches somewhat consistent so you don't mine out the main too fast. I am curious if this was used for the gold as well, even if you do not get the bonus. You still get to mine more as Mules mine over SCVs. Just curious of what happens when you expand onto a gold. Does keeping mineral patches even at the point is even relevant? | ||
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
On February 23 2012 05:10 Gheed wrote: I thought this was common knowledge. You can easily test it by just watching a mule; it clearly dies on its way back with the last load of minerals (if you put it on the close ones like most people do, that is) If most people do it wrong, then it's not common knowledge. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45246 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:26 wunsun wrote: I am not sure I understand. My understanding is that mules have a hard cap on the minerals that they can mine. If you drop it, you do not get the bonus, while on blue, you do get the bonus. So, you don't really lose any actual minerals, though you do not get the bonus, so in affect, your minerals mined per minutes are lowered. However, my situation was similar to when you expand, you drop all mules on your natural to keep the patches somewhat consistent so you don't mine out the main too fast. I am curious if this was used for the gold as well, even if you do not get the bonus. You still get to mine more as Mules mine over SCVs. Just curious of what happens when you expand onto a gold. Does keeping mineral patches even at the point is even relevant? There are far more blue patches than gold patches throughout the map (# of bases, for sure), so the "keeping patches consistent" is hardly a factor when trying to not call down MULEs on gold bases. You can try thinking of it this way: You have one blue and one gold mineral about to be brought in to your command center. Of those two different colored minerals, one will be brought by an scv and one will be brought by a MULE. Who would you prefer brings each color? The answer is that- for more money- you should have the scv bring the gold mineral and the MULE bring the blue, as the MULE brings the same amount regardless of color, and the scv mines more money on gold. (Obviously if you had infinite MULEs, it's irrelevant... but you always have more scvs than MULEs and the gold bases are never the last bases left in the game anyway). Hope that helps. Obviously, this (along with any of these other "mining out perfectly" strategies) are only extremely relevant if the map is about to lose all resources after 40+ minutes into the game. | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:28 SeraKuDA wrote: If most people do it wrong, then it's not common knowledge. What was the point of your post again? That was the most generic statement in the world that is completely obvious and has nothing to do with to OP. He said he "thought" it was common knowledge. Not "it is" common knowledge. Don't come into a thread to try and bash someone's post and not say anything intelligent. And I for one thought MOST people knew about this too because before close patches mined more so blizz patched it to make it so the mule will always mine the same amount of minerals no matter the patch. | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:33 Blasterion wrote: Any 1 know the mineral loss for using unmicro'ed Mules? (when mules time out with minerals on them is they aren't stopped before they die) Umm... How much do mules mine per trip? Considering they only lose what's in their robotic arms that's the answer. And truth be told i don't know that exact number. I think 30 though. | ||
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drgoats
United States310 Posts
On February 23 2012 05:10 Gheed wrote: I thought this was common knowledge. You can easily test it by just watching a mule; it clearly dies on its way back with the last load of minerals (if you put it on the close ones like most people do, that is) Hey, what do you know about mining minerals! | ||
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cmen15
United States1519 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: There are far more blue patches than gold patches throughout the map (# of bases, for sure), so the "keeping patches consistent" is hardly a factor when trying to not call down MULEs on gold bases. You can try thinking of it this way: You have one blue and one gold mineral about to be brought in to your command center. Of those two different colored minerals, one will be brought by an scv and one will be brought by a MULE. Who would you prefer brings each color? The answer is that- for more money- you should have the scv bring the gold mineral and the MULE bring the blue, as the MULE brings the same amount regardless of color, and the scv mines more money on gold. (Obviously if you had infinite MULEs, it's irrelevant... but you always have more scvs than MULEs and the gold bases are never the last bases left in the game anyway). Hope that helps. Obviously, this (along with any of these other "mining out perfectly" strategies) are only extremely relevant if the map is about to lose all resources after 40+ minutes into the game. That doesn't matter. A mule mines the same minerals on blue or gold and doesn't disrupt pathing, so it doesn't matter what you want your SCVs to do, they aren't affected since MULEs oversaturate. All that matters is whether you want your gold or blue bases to mine out faster, and you will generally be OK with gold being mined out faster. Thus, dropping MULEs on gold is still superior. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:49 Tobberoth wrote: That doesn't matter. A mule mines the same minerals on blue or gold and doesn't disrupt pathing, so it doesn't matter what you want your SCVs to do, they aren't affected since MULEs oversaturate. All that matters is whether you want your gold or blue bases to mine out faster, and you will generally be OK with gold being mined out faster. Thus, dropping MULEs on gold is still superior. As an example: suppose you had enough mules saved up to instantly mine out a new expansion. You have scvs mining a gold and a blue. Option 1: mule the gold and now you only have blue minerals left to mine. Option 2: mule the blue, for equal minerals, and now you have a more rewarding gold base left to mine for your scvs. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On February 23 2012 06:56 Grumbels wrote: As an example: suppose you had enough mules saved up to instantly mine out a new expansion. You have scvs mining a gold and a blue. Option 1: mule the gold and now you only have blue minerals left to mine. Option 2: mule the blue, for equal minerals, and now you have a more rewarding gold base left to mine for your scvs. Wrong. The minerals are still there in the gold expo, you aren't deleting the minerals from the patches just because you're mining with mules. Let's say the blue base has 5000 minerals and the gold base has 7000. Put enough mules to completely mine out the blue base, and you get 5000 minerals. Put enough mules to completely mine out the gold base, and you get 7000 minerals, it will just take longer than it used to since the mules don't dig as fast on gold as they used to do. | ||
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