EPTAfter that game everybody knows how to stop that build. Even in TvT there are so many builds and deversions and fakes which makes the matchup even more skill-based dependent. Also i think because there so many difficlties to overcome as T in the matchups KR T's just push their units to the limit to gain max advantage. I think non-kr T will get there also Kas is playing good beasty and happy just give them time.
Difference between korean and non-korean terrans - Page 5
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Severus_
759 Posts
After that game everybody knows how to stop that build. Even in TvT there are so many builds and deversions and fakes which makes the matchup even more skill-based dependent. Also i think because there so many difficlties to overcome as T in the matchups KR T's just push their units to the limit to gain max advantage. I think non-kr T will get there also Kas is playing good beasty and happy just give them time. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 21 2012 20:49 IMPrime wrote: Basically multitasking/APM. There's a reason why plat-masters terrans are struggling significantly more than zergs or protosses in the same division, and I highly doubt that they are all worse players. They just have to do a lot more during the game. Foreign pro terrans obviously have more APM than these plat-masters, but they still are nowhere near what is required to beat their zergs and tosses. Korean terrans have the APM to utilize the units A somewhat relevant claim backed up by a very shitty and false reason. At "plat-masters", Terran's winrates are the same as every other race, it's 50%, that's just how it is, they don't struggle more. You could improve and get faster/have more APM, it still won't help you much on the ladder, you'll still get your 50% winrate, so to those players: just play the game and don't go comparing yourselves to players of Strelok's caliber thinking that what you experience is somehow related. | ||
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yoigen
Germany369 Posts
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Facultyadjutant
Sweden1876 Posts
I mean when I saw Strelok play passive vs idra in the ipl (I think) he got smashed, when I believe he should have been being aggressive. Even bomber at his peak who played extremely macro oriented had constant pressure in marines. But hey mvp and bomber made standard tvz work, setting up for the lategame and just taking the win. The problem is that foreigners suck at tvz same as foreigners are so shit pvz. While their korean counterparts dominate. Foreign timings have been figured out by zerg, big staples are the hellion is explored and the quick third vs forge fast expand. The metagame is just in zergs favor. Foreigner terrans really don't play korean, for example jijkakis constant ''passive'' aggression is non existant with foreigners. The bad terrans will do random drops and push out at 200/200. Good terrans will push out at a good timing, use drops to distract the mutas and take out a base. Korean terrans will have since the getgo done fakepushes, poked and proded which has made the zerg feel scared. You have to make zerg scared of drops, mass hellion allin, mass marine allin etc. But fuck foreigners are terrible, when I meet tarson or merz they are the same terrans but just do it all better. The only terrans that are doing it right is east europeans like greedy kas, happy and swedish thorzain. I can rant another hour on how there isn't a single good foreigner mech player to date. | ||
Poopi
France13022 Posts
On February 21 2012 20:59 ZenithM wrote: A somewhat relevant claim backed up by a very shitty and false reason. At "plat-masters", Terran's winrates are the same as every other race, it's 50%, that's just how it is, they don't struggle more. You could improve and get faster/have more APM, it still won't help you much on the ladder, you'll still get your 50% winrate, so to those players: just play the game and don't go comparing yourselves to players of Strelok's caliber thinking that what you experience is somehow related. Lol like you knew anything about the struggle of terrans. Just watch the top 25 of each master division, there will be a lot more P/Z than T. Just do it (dunno if you can watch the last season stats)... It's a known fact that there are less T diamond/master | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:03 Poopi wrote: Lol like you knew anything about the struggle of terrans. Just watch the top 25 of each master division, there will be a lot more P/Z than T. Just do it (dunno if you can watch the last season stats)... It's a known fact that there are less T diamond/master yeah, if you add Protoss and Zerg players, there will sure be more than Terrans: GM: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/grandmaster/1/all Master: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/master/1/all/0/142 Diamond: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/diamond/1/all And you can check the last patches as well. I guess the Terran count is decreasing... it's still above the Zerg count. | ||
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Pugwalker
50 Posts
This is one of things that always made me angry about playing terran, the maps and patches are made to try and balance the winrates in the GSL because it is considered the highest level of play even though the format inherently favors the race that benefits the most from preparation. Foreign tournaments don't use this format so that is why very few terrans win them and when they do it is a usually a korean who just outclasses everyone else. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:03 Poopi wrote: Lol like you knew anything about the struggle of terrans. Just watch the top 25 of each master division, there will be a lot more P/Z than T. Just do it (dunno if you can watch the last season stats)... It's a known fact that there are less T diamond/master Ok I'll bite. Look at those stats: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/eu/1/all/0/141 or those http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/eu/1/all/0/142 Look at all leagues. Do you see a pattern? Yeah, way less Terrans, like you said. Do you really think the "Terran is harder" can be backed up by stats that show exactly the same thing from Master down to Gold? Do we have to look at gold players on ladder to answer Strelok's question? Terran is overall less played, at every level, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this thread. | ||
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Poopi
France13022 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:09 Big J wrote: yeah, if you add Protoss and Zerg players, there will sure be more than Terrans: GM: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/grandmaster/1/all Master: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/master/1/all/0/142 Diamond: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/diamond/1/all And you can check the last patches as well. I guess the Terran count is decreasing... it's still above the Zerg count. What the huck are these stats? XD. I said top 25 of each master division, aka somewhat active players, there are a bunch of players in 50-100 that have less than 10 games played. edit : and yeah this has to do with this thread, that means that terrans from diamond to foreign terrans don't have the same success as their P/Z counterparts. But if koreans terrans still manage to win it's ok, it's only the foreign T that are fucked but at least the balance is ok at the highest lvl. (but will it be with the next patch?) I feel sorry for all the foreign terrans that struggle so much though :/ | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:09 Big J wrote: yeah, if you add Protoss and Zerg players, there will sure be more than Terrans: GM: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/grandmaster/1/all Master: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/master/1/all/0/142 Diamond: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/diamond/1/all And you can check the last patches as well. I guess the Terran count is decreasing... it's still above the Zerg count. its because theyre all in bronze .. http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:14 Poopi wrote: What the huck are these stats? XD. I said top 25 of each master division, aka somewhat active players, there are a bunch of players in 50-100 that have less than 10 games played. Well, under the "assumption" that you get to grandmaster after being top25 master and master after being top25 diamond, your top25 are included in those stats. (that's why I posted GM in the first place  ) | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:14 Poopi wrote: What the huck are these stats? XD. I said top 25 of each master division, aka somewhat active players, there are a bunch of players in 50-100 that have less than 10 games played. edit : and yeah this has to do with this thread, that means that terrans from diamond to foreign terrans don't have the same success as their P/Z counterparts. But if koreans terrans still manage to win it's ok, it's only the foreign T that are fucked but at least the balance is ok at the highest lvl. (but will it be with the next patch?) I feel sorry for all the foreign terrans that struggle so much though :/ I'm sorry, it's just that I don't see how you can equally judge diamond and foreign pro struggles. What can of evidence do you have to say that diamond Terrans struggle much more than their P and Z counterparts? Winrates? I say: 50%. Number of players? Yeah, there are less Terrans. Like in every fucking league above silver. APM? Gameplay? Well, we have no data :/ So that's why I say: don't mix up the leagues like that. It sounds to me that you relate that thread a bit too much to your personal ladder experience. It even sounds a bit whiny in fact, but whatever. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:18 teddyoojo wrote: its because theyre all in bronze .. http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all that's weird... Region stats for 341,879 teams from the Master 1v1 brackets, is what is written over mine... Edit: I guess Region + League as I did, doesn't work properly. So sorry for the wrong stats, I guess Terran is least played (if those stats work properly). | ||
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
Terrans ship is sinking. Nothing changed fundamentally. After some period terrans will be moved out from korean leagues Blizz should make fundamental changes to TvP / TvZ matchup. See terran win rate after 20 minute. Terran should win or take an economical advantage to just have chances in late game. Koreans are just trying to play before 20 minute. | ||
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
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Gjorg
22 Posts
I'm former T, playing P now, it's actually harder to micro with protoss units because they're big and pretty weak in small numbers (stalker vs marauder for example), also warp prisms aren't nearly as good as medivacs. he's defending his natural? np load a medivac and elevator then wait 30 seconds for him to decide what units to send to the stimmed drop that kills everything if you accidentally send 1 less unit that you needed to | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:29 [7x]laV wrote: I think korean builds are a temporary measure that allowed to patch the holes. Terrans ship is sinking. Nothing changed fundamentally. After some period terrans will be moved out from korean leagues Blizz should make fundamental changes to TvP / TvZ matchup. See terran win rate after 20 minute. Terran should win or take an economical advantage to just have chances in late game. Koreans are just trying to play before 20 minute. that's low lvl trolling there son, you got to do better. | ||
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Ucs
264 Posts
Even when they don't have games (they are out of GSL/other competition) they don't ever stream. Terrans in korea study their opponent and figure out timings and flaws and how to hide/trick opponent. Thats how the ratio of wins stays in terran favor. You can't do that on ladder or in any other tournament(gsl has 1 week or even more from the moment you find out who your opponent is and the actual match). So since you can't study your opponent you can either decide to randomly do a timing that usually works for you(in TvZ) and hope it works or you can go macro mode,but, you usually get stomped because you can't compete with zerg in macro(14 drones at a time yo, mules are good but not that good). Same thing goes with TvP at the moment but the diffrence is you don't get outclassed in economy but in tech and in upgrades(cut corners to get ahead in upgrades/tech and u get stomped by random 6 gate push, don't cut corners and get stomped by superior upgrades). Its not all as grim as it sounds but what i want to point out is that terran has no way to be constant in winning without studing your opponent. Zerg can just defend for the first 10 mins and win,nothing fancy or strategically awesome, just pure defend. Protoss only needs to keep the terran honest and not let him cut corners and he probably wins with better upgrades/tech. People keep saying drops/micro win the games for terran but drops have been figured out in TvZ and TvP. Spines/blink/feedback/fungal/mutas all make drop play basicly outdated strategy for terran. It just got figured out so well since every terran did it. Now GSL players barely do it anymore in TvP or TvZ. Its just not worth it anymore versus competent players. | ||
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
On February 21 2012 21:36 Lysanias wrote: that's low lvl trolling there son, you got to do better. Thats just my opinion, you can agree with it, or not Im not gosu but european gml so it can take place here | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
Since terran usually have the initiative during the game, the most important things for them are strategy and execution. To have solid (and new) strategies, you need a good team. To improve your execution, you need good practice partners to repeat the same thing over and over. Basically, terran is the race that benefits the most from being in a korean pro team. On the other hand, zerg as the reactive race is the race that needs a team the least (look at Stephano: mostly ladder). So it's really not surprising that we have zergs>protoss>terrans in the foreign scene. | ||
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