Ooook sorry i did not provide link to my previous post. Here it is. Was trying to find it.
Sooo MVP says "You have to play aggressive. You should not let your opponent grow up. You shold play really low mineral. Both you and your opponent should play on low mineral."
"Both when you and your opponent are having a hard time with mining situations. The MULES will actually help you a lot. Provide you with more units to kill your opponent."
"You have to keep harrassing them. Just have to be agressive."
Link is below
Sorry i am gold league. But i thought it was interesting and simple what MVP said.
On February 22 2012 21:45 SpeakNow wrote: Ooook sorry i did not provide link to my previous post. Here it is. Was trying to find it.
Sooo MVP says "You have to play aggressive. You should not let your opponent grow up. You shold play really low mineral. Both you and your opponent should play on low mineral."
"Both when you and your opponent are having a hard time with mining situations. The MULES will actually help you a lot. Provide you with more units to kill your opponent."
"You have to keep harrassing them. Just have to be agressive."
On February 22 2012 17:09 Epoch wrote: The best concentration of all races are in Korea, and it's not even close.
Nope completely wrong and warped view on things. Of course nestea, leenock, losira and drg are some of the best on any day but really if you think Stephano, Nerchio, Delphi, Ret, TLO, Morrow and Dimaga aren't excellent players who can't compete against top level koreans you are one of those people I either think is 1. a troll or 2. a person who just is really short sightedly following the thread that koreans can't be stopped when it comes to starcraft.
I would even guess that Zergs from EU have won more prize money than any one else in SC2 (thanks to Stephano mainly but doesn't make it an invalid point).
On February 22 2012 17:09 Epoch wrote: The best concentration of all races are in Korea, and it's not even close.
Nope completely wrong and warped view on things. Of course nestea, leenock, losira and drg are some of the best on any day but really if you think Stephano, Nerchio, Delphi, Ret, TLO, Morrow and Dimaga aren't excellent players who can't compete against top level koreans you are one of those people I either think is 1. a troll or 2. a person who just is really short sightedly following the thread that koreans can't be stopped when it comes to starcraft.
I would even guess that Zergs from EU have won more prize money than any one else in SC2 (thanks to Stephano mainly but doesn't make it an invalid point).
Ignoring your first paragraph, your statement about winning prize money is wrong to such a degree that it casts doubt on how much you actually know about the Korean scene.
On February 21 2012 18:16 VPFaith wrote: Take EGPuma for example, he 1-2 base timing attack vs protoss almost every single game. Yes, he mix in with some 1 Rax FEs, but majorities of his victories are because of heavy harassment into 1-2 base timing attacks. As MC would put it, "You want to win tournaments? Timing Attack! Timing Attack!"
But such play is very unsafe. I mean if zerg/protoss knows you will do that - you are done. Do you propose just to rely on mixing strategies that he doesn't know how exactly you will all-in him? because 2 base attack is same all-in as 1 base in high level.
When you are playing in offline tournament, your mind functions differently because of many factors. The audience, computer set up, and who you are facing up against and more... Any of these factors can result in a bad decision. Yes, the player doing the all-in will take a great risk, but knowing if the timing attack is concealed well is key. And know if timing is scouted, what then? what decision is next leads to the result of the game. This is where the Koreans shine because most of them practise to these kind of situations, discuss with coaches, and practise non-stop in similar situations. For example, MarinekingPrime, always win most base trade situations or dire situations when 1 slight mistake will cost the game. As for foreign Terran players, we just focus too much on improving macro mechanics and fail in situations when the prepared strategies did not go as planned.
Koreans on the other hand, they train in critical situations when game did not go as planned. Foreigners do not have such advantage.
Like say Proxy Thor Push on Calm before the Storm vs Protoss, if the proxy is found, what is next? Or when the first Thor died, then what? Things like these are rarely discussed in the foreign community because we never take the time to analyze how to save bad situations into a well executed one that has a follow up. It's hard!
This is such a good post.
I hate, absolutely hate the prevalent foreign mindset that some how "Macro is good." I think it's a mindset that hold players back, especially when it comes to such a young game as SC2.
Even thought "safe" and "macro" oriented play is a good choice for the significantly stronger player; amongst evenly matched opponents a risky play-style has a significant advantage if the "safe" player is at all predictable. Risky play forces "safe" play from your opponent to be MORE "safe", where as safe, predictable play allows your opponent to gain advantages at low levels of risk exposure.
You never know what a Korean Terran is doing, they have such a breadth of all-ins and they often use it just to get a Best of X advantage in mind games.
1 rax gasless expo --> cloaked banshees blindly isn't the safest build in the world, but in a BoX series it tells the protoss that if he's gonna go fast 3 nexus --> 8 gate, he's gonna get punished (Gumiho vs. Puzzle).
On February 22 2012 17:09 Epoch wrote: The best concentration of all races are in Korea, and it's not even close.
Nope completely wrong and warped view on things. Of course nestea, leenock, losira and drg are some of the best on any day but really if you think Stephano, Nerchio, Delphi, Ret, TLO, Morrow and Dimaga aren't excellent players who can't compete against top level koreans you are one of those people I either think is 1. a troll or 2. a person who just is really short sightedly following the thread that koreans can't be stopped when it comes to starcraft.
I would even guess that Zergs from EU have won more prize money than any one else in SC2 (thanks to Stephano mainly but doesn't make it an invalid point).
You're listing players that on their best day could take a couple game off Koreans and comparing them to korean players that have dominated in a league which no foreigner except Huk has found sustained success in?
No, Sorry. You're the one with a completely warped view on things.
I think that the korean terrans, aside from having better mechanics and "multitasking", all share one thing-- their aggression without losing units carelessly. These terran players push all of their units to the limit, forcing the most gain with the least amount of loss. They get it when it comes to knowing how and when to push out on the field with units so that they don't lose them without huge benefit, or at all even. For example, they always seem to be everywhere in a TvP with their bio, which allows them to take advantage of any weak spot in the Protoss defense. They only do this after they get stim or medivacs, as forcefield would force the inefficient loss of units. To be honest, the only foreigner who I have seen do this with success is ProTech, the former top 2v2 player, who played zerg (for crying out loud!).
On February 22 2012 17:09 Epoch wrote: The best concentration of all races are in Korea, and it's not even close.
Nope completely wrong and warped view on things. Of course nestea, leenock, losira and drg are some of the best on any day but really if you think Stephano, Nerchio, Delphi, Ret, TLO, Morrow and Dimaga aren't excellent players who can't compete against top level koreans you are one of those people I either think is 1. a troll or 2. a person who just is really short sightedly following the thread that koreans can't be stopped when it comes to starcraft.
I would even guess that Zergs from EU have won more prize money than any one else in SC2 (thanks to Stephano mainly but doesn't make it an invalid point).
Ignoring your first paragraph, your statement about winning prize money is wrong to such a degree that it casts doubt on how much you actually know about the Korean scene.
You're listing players that on their best day could take a couple game off Koreans and comparing them to korean players that have dominated in a league which no foreigner except Huk has found sustained success in?
No, Sorry. You're the one with a completely warped view on things.
Well if you hold an event in korea you hardly expect every good player to pick up and leave to compete in it. People have responsibilities at home or maybe they just don't want to head to a completely different culture with a different language. There has never been any event that has had every good pro player its always mix and match of players like this weekend there is mlg and assembly and the iron squid and the players are split between those events. You can say GSL is the be all and end all of everything in SC2 but you would be very wrong like Stephano hasn't played there does that mean he is worse than nestea? The answer is no.
On February 23 2012 08:07 wklbishop wrote:
Ignoring your first paragraph, your statement about winning prize money is wrong to such a degree that it casts doubt on how much you actually know about the Korean scene.
EDIT: Let me correct myself, rather than Korean scene, more like those Korean terrans that this thread is talking about.
Well Stephano made the biggest single prize last year from IPL, to correct myself for a second here I am guessing but if you think about the events outside of korea and add up the prize money it would be pretty even between koreans and non koreans so I retract that statement.
You're listing players that on their best day could take a couple game off Koreans and comparing them to korean players that have dominated in a league which no foreigner except Huk has found sustained success in?
No, Sorry. You're the one with a completely warped view on things.
Well if you hold an event in korea you hardly expect every good player to pick up and leave to compete in it. People have responsibilities at home or maybe they just don't want to head to a completely different culture with a different language. There has never been any event that has had every good pro player its always mix and match of players like this weekend there is mlg and assembly and the iron squid and the players are split between those events. You can say GSL is the be all and end all of everything in SC2 but you would be very wrong like Stephano hasn't played there does that mean he is worse than nestea? The answer is no.
Ignoring your first paragraph, your statement about winning prize money is wrong to such a degree that it casts doubt on how much you actually know about the Korean scene.
EDIT: Let me correct myself, rather than Korean scene, more like those Korean terrans that this thread is talking about.
Well Stephano made the biggest single prize last year from IPL, to correct myself for a second here I am guessing but if you think about the events outside of korea and add up the prize money it would be pretty even between koreans and non koreans so I retract that statement.
Stephano and Naniwa might be the only big name foreigners that have yet to compete actively in the GSL. However, they both got knocked out of the first round of Blizzard Cup, which was a Korean/Gom tournament.
It's possible that both could have some success in the GSL, it's also very possible that both would get knocked out of the first round of Code A in the same way that Idra, Huk, Sase, Sheth, Sen, Select, and Morrow have all been knocked out recently.
It's one thing to go knock out Koreans that have yet to study your play at IPL, its another thing when you've become famous (as stephano has now) and your replays are readily available for study and the unknown korean from Code B studies your every replay with a coach to find any edge they can. Can Stephano survive in GSL? Who knows, but until its proven otherwise, foreigners are having trouble holding a spot there despite all the free seeds that Gom gives out.
Yup army movement and control is what makes the difference the thing is whenever you first try to move around bravely with your army you get crushed a thousand times before you master it. It's like a terran tries to move his army around taldarim like MMA does he just get crushed when caught unsieged or whatever so then the terran player that tries this goes ''i guess i shouldnt have my army in the middle of the map like that'' wich ultimately creates the terran playstyle that is weaker than the one of the koreans. This reminds me of a comment day9 made about how huk plays his matchups. Huk feigns alot of agression wich allows him to cut corners this is why huk is better than most foreigners even though his builds arent out of the ordinary.
I like how almost no one feigns pushes on eu server, I play very high masters and the terrans i see never fake push and expand or fake push then push a few minute later with a higher siege tank count. It just seems that if you dont see direct results you wont do it. The reason you could give for koreans that ARE doing this is that their zerg buddies from the team house they practice 10 hours a day in will dude try to move your army here and there or do this and that. Also if one player of the team gets it the other players will soon pick up on it in a team situation. I think terran has to step it up after all the nerfs. Before this push used to always kill zerg, zerg adapts, terran still tries the way of executing pushes.
Well Stephano made the biggest single prize last year from IPL, to correct myself for a second here I am guessing but if you think about the events outside of korea and add up the prize money it would be pretty even between koreans and non koreans so I retract that statement.
wtf korea has one tournament and the rest of the world has hundreds. would there be in all these tournames koreans it would be not even.
Very few foreign players of any race combine being aggressive with being macro centric. Almost all foreign players are extremely passive and turtly (Ret, Idra, Kas, Happy, Strelok, Socke, Stephano, Morrow, HasuObs, Thorzain) with the exception of a small number of cheesy players (Naama, Elfi).
Where as Korean Terran all play like MVP, Bomber, MKP and MMA who are very aggressive all the time and never just spend all game sat in their base until max but neither are they flat out all inning and cheesing when they get aggressive.
I think foreign Terran's are too passive (except for the game where they intend to cheese) which doesn't suit the race.
I also think foreign Terran's have poor micro compared to Koreans across all races and this shows the most for Terran as they are the most micro centric race.
EPT
