Mentor / apprenticeship - Page 13

On February 19 2012 03:00 MrNoob wrote:


I think the focus of mentoring is the life of a profesional gamer in total.

"lack of presence in the sc2 scene"
???????????
I think you've missed something: P

On February 19 2012 02:18 ohampatu wrote:



Having Grubby as a mentor is like having Boxer or White-Ra as a mentor. The person (feast in this case) may have an overall skill level above yours, or better restults, etc. But there are things that you can still be taught, and not many people have Grubby's experience in this manner. If i had the money, i would pay Grubby twice as much as Idra charges to get coached by him.

On February 19 2012 03:10 Forikorder wrote:

no its not, BoxeR was Bonjwa in SC he had amazing world top skills and is passing those on to the younger generation

BoxeR can menter becuase he has skills higher then the people hes mentering, hes jsut gotten older and cant quite perform at 100%

On February 19 2012 03:26 ohampatu wrote:



And Grubby was a Bonjwa of WC3, and is only rivaled by Moon in having the most international success of any esport figure (read: international). The wealth of knowledge and experience Grubby can give is immense. You are confusing yourself. Grubby isn't coaching him, he will be mentoring him on numerous different topics. I agree Boxer is prolly a better coach (although in defense he wasn't' the coach of slayers untill just recently). Your blind Boxer fanboyism is making you miss what is actually being said. My point still stands



edit: Just like the dude 2 posts above said 'this isn't coaching'

On February 19 2012 03:43 Forikorder wrote:

well i was never into WC3 at all

On February 19 2012 03:54 ohampatu wrote:



Oh its all good. I was never a big sc1 fan myself. We just all have to realize that SC2 pros come from alot of backgrounds, and while some of them may not have been a bonjwa or won a golden mouse in SC1, they may have equally been famous in other regards. If my memory serves very few people have won as much money as Grubby has, or has had as much success internationally (this includes all sc1 bonjwas, they were isolated, while Grubby was 'worldwide'). With that said, this can only help Feast understand the finer workings of being a progamer, and being affiliated with Grubby itself will just boost your own popularity. Helps 'get his feet wet' so to speak

On February 19 2012 04:19 Squeegy wrote:


Winning Special Olympics is not as prestigious as winning Olympics. Winning many titles out of many is not more prestigious than winning few titles out of few. Nor is winning internationally more prestigious if the level of competition isn't high.

On February 19 2012 04:34 Falconblade wrote:


And because BW was so wondrous and obviously > WC3 it relegates WC3 to Special Olympics?


That's utter bullcrap. I played BW a bit as a kid, and WC3 a grand total of once. Either way, they're different games and doesn't make WC3 easier. Being an average player in BW doesn't mean you'd make a good WC3 player. Imagine Idra or Ret in WC3 with their macro heavy style and far less micro and how they'd do in WC3? Stephano was mediocre in WC3 and one of the better SC2 foreigners. Skill in one does not equate to skill in the other. Aptitude perhaps, but not actual skill.

That's downright disrespectful, to compare something to the Special Olympics. And some of those people are damn amazing, and deserve a bit of respect. Prestige or not, it takes skill to be at the top of a game. Dominating the scene, despite having more games, means more than middling it in a different scene.

I love Demu, Ret and Grubby all, but that logic is downright vile.

On February 19 2012 04:50 Squeegy wrote:


My example of special olympics is only to show that winning X does not equal to winning Y. Middling it in professional football is better than winning it in mobile phone tossing. People seem to have this erroneous idea that all scenes are equal and it is simply not true. My opinion of Idra and Ret in WC3 is that they would have done really well. As has been seen in SC2, the micro of WC3 players has not been better than BW players. In fact, I would go as far as to say the best microers in SC2 seem to have come from BW. When it comes to people like Stephano, they seem to be peaking now instead of then. Although I do agree that sometimes the skills dont translate that well.

On February 19 2012 04:50 Squeegy wrote:


My example of special olympics is only to show that winning X does not equal to winning Y. Middling it in professional football is better than winning it in mobile phone tossing. People seem to have this erroneous idea that all scenes are equal and it is simply not true. My opinion of Idra and Ret in WC3 is that they would have done really well. As has been seen in SC2, the micro of WC3 players has not been better than BW players. In fact, I would go as far as to say the best microers in SC2 seem to have come from BW. When it comes to people like Stephano, they seem to be peaking now instead of then. Although I do agree that sometimes the skills dont translate that well.

On February 19 2012 04:58 Falconblade wrote:



How are you to say that Idra and Ret would have done well in WC3? There was no inclination that they would.


Look at it this way, if Idra and Ret, who were mediocre in BW would have done well in WC3, how about all those other B-teamers that were better than Idra and Ret? Why wouldn't they just switch to WC3, and romp their way through, unseat Grubby and sit on his Frozen Throne? BW at a B-team level isn't really that worth it to many.

Mobile phone tossing vs. Football is far too exaggerated.

On February 19 2012 05:08 ohampatu wrote:


Your right. Winning X doesn't equal Winning Y. Your trying to say winning in SC1 is better than winning in WC3, which is true, and you should've just said that off the bat. Again though, your one of those people who seem to think this is a 'coaching' thing. Mentoring doesn't neccesarilly mean coaching. I dont care if you dont appreciate or give Grubby the respect he deserves, but the only person in the world who can teach some of the things Grubby can is Moon. The star BW players always played on homefield, and always against people they knew, dealt with, etc. I keep mentioning International Success because International Success is a big deal. Grubby has had so much of that that he has knowledge few have and can really help players, even if his skill level is equal or lower for the actual game. Grubby has been traveling to different countries, playing under terrible conditions, playing against people he has never met, etc, etc.

I disagree with you on your talk about micro. Grubby has done some blink micro just as well as MC imo, esp at the last HSC4. Go read the LR reports, people were praising him like god on some of his pvz matches. But this is neither here nor now. Just a thread where a iconic esports figure is going to help get a newer rts player some exposure/tips/hints/etc that dont neccesarily rely on Build Orders and shit like that. Being a progamer is about more than just winning your BOx series

On February 19 2012 05:27 Squeegy wrote:


I don't think it is a coaching thing and I'm not sure why you would think I think that.

But Grubby knew his opponents, I dare say, just as well as BW pros know theirs. Grubby can probably offer more insight in to adapting to different situations and cultures in that he travelled a lot, I agree. But it doesn't take Grubby to teach that. I am not really sure what kind of knowledge he has in that regard that others don't. You say it is not about the skill but then you say only Grubby and Moon can give that kind of knowledge. What do they have that others in WC3 don't? Results. Do you think their results came from them adapting better to the changing environment perhaps? I would like to think it is because they were better than their opponents. In either case, I am really not sure what he has to teach that others don't (given the info you gave earlier). Care to give a few examples?

But people praise many things like god. I don't take people very seriously when it comes to praising other people. Grubby might have done "some blink micro" that was on par with MC. But that doesn't mean he can do all micro on par with MC. In fact, MC's micro certainly seems better overall. I'm sure the majority would agree with me on this, if you wish to go that road.

On February 19 2012 05:53 ohampatu wrote:



I would never say Grubby could micro as good as MC, im saying that there are people who have shown at times they have the capability to do it, just possibly not consistently, etc.

On the topic of him being a mentor. Yes, others could do it, and just as well if not better. But the point is that it takes more than just raw talent to do what Grubby did for the WC3 scene. If any of his knowledge gets imparted onto other players, its only a good thing. He could very well learn through experience or through another player etc. But i'll put it this way:
There are only 1 of 2 people who are currently self sufficient in SC2: Grubby and White-Ra (mebe not completely self sufficient, but they dont rely on a team at all). That means Grubby is defintely doing something right if he can play independently. As I said in the past who knows how much this will help Feast or what, but there's no denying that Grubby has done pretty good on his career and if he can somehow help out another player then more props to him.
Things that come to my mind he could help with: Preplanning for tournies, Traveling Planning, Practice Techniques, Studying Opponents, Adapting to new environments, getting him in touch with higherup people in esports to secure a career, etc. I honestly dont know all and sorry I can't give great examples, but Grubby is doing something right with his life, and if he can help Feast follow in his footsteps all the more power to him

On February 19 2012 04:50 Squeegy wrote:


My example of special olympics is only to show that winning X does not equal to winning Y. Middling it in professional football is better than winning it in mobile phone tossing. People seem to have this erroneous idea that all scenes are equal and it is simply not true. My opinion of Idra and Ret in WC3 is that they would have done really well. As has been seen in SC2, the micro of WC3 players has not been better than BW players. In fact, I would go as far as to say the best microers in SC2 seem to have come from BW. When it comes to people like Stephano, they seem to be peaking now instead of then. Although I do agree that sometimes the skills dont translate that well.