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If the professional scene can't survive without charging $20 per weekend event then Houston, we have a problem.
Casual fans won't shell out the $20 cause they don't care enough. They'll just skip it.
Hardcore starcraft fans will pay the $20, but if this becomes a regular thing, and fans have to pay $20/weekend to watch starcraft tournaments, then a lot of fans, even hardcore fans won't be able to afford $20/weekend + GSL.
Obviously I'm not privy to the business side of Starcraft, but I thought it'd be really easy to get well paying sponsors for a really hot demographic that SC2 has access to, and that's harder for advertisers to communicate with as the younger demo tends to spend a lot more time on their computers than watching TV.
I'm kind of curous what kind of response they get, and even more curious if this model is sustainable.
And the PPV model has a very big downside. If casual fans aren't being exposed to your major events, how do you grow the fanbase? Not good for the growth of ESports.
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This is a really good response and I liked and agree with your point that maybe $10 would actually end up being more profitable for MLG. I personally would pay the 20 if werent such a busy exam week for me, but I think that especially for the first time doing this $10 would be a smarter move
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
I just thought of a totally good idea, but it's sorta too late since this PPV seems set in stone, and the only solution is probably MLG lowering the price later before the event. It could have gone like this:
Hey guys we are gonna kick off our MLG Arena! This first event will be FREE. Watching this first event our casters will be plugging in our discount code for the next MLG which will be PPV!
That might have grabbed a bit more people for the next event that would be PPV. Ease up the views for a PPV. Dunno just a thought!
Ohyeah and this thread so awesome cause it gave both sides of the argument! :D
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Excellent and fast post. I really hope this does not affect your (EG's) relationship with mlg since it wasn't all roses.
On February 14 2012 15:07 ottersareneat wrote:
What do you think of the $20 price point?
I think it’s too high - especially within the context of how other SC2 content providers’ packages are priced. I think that the weekend should cost $10. I think MLG would actually make more money with a $10 price tag for the weekend pass, because I think they’d get more than twice the subscribers at $10 than they’ll get at $20. But that may be just me.
Anyway, that’s the primary, overarching reason why EG is not participating in the referral program.
While I believe this may be the case, I also have a feeling mlg gave you a some what shitty deal, like couple of dollars per referred purchase, and you felt like you could only make a couple hundred dollars max. But if the deal made you enough money would you then had gone with the 20$ overall price?
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37032 Posts
TY Alex for this post.
Dear MLG: I love you guys. And honestly, I would be willing to give u guys some sort of money to show my support. But $20 for a weekend is just asking too much. I'm sorry but if u want my money, u will need to drop that price
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looks like sc2 is heading in the PPV direction. Not a fan of this at all. I believe there are better ways to create sustainability and moneterise sc2
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On February 14 2012 15:28 Gorlin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:18 Proko wrote:
I think 2012 is the year where we see big SC2 cutbacks, growth and revenue are not keeping up with spending.
I would love to pay for MLG's arena, but 20$ is just too high. "Esports is gunna have a withdrawal this year. I will respond by helping that happen." I'm baffled. I agree with Alex that the price is probably too high, but for what they are doing (paying for every player's trip, good sized prize pool, probably amazing production), come on. If you want to see the scene to actually become something, put in some damn effort and actually invest in what you love. If you don't love it, then you don't deserve it anyway.
Esports will only work with functional business models. If the product isn't worth the price I don't help anybody by buying it. You need a product that people want long term, at a price they are willing to pay. It's not about what I deserve, I'd be a foolish consumer if I didn't vote with my dollars.
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my very first reaction when the news hit was to do exactly as you are proposing. I immidiatley wrote Sundance a tweet tellign him i like the idea, but 20 bucks was way too much. Also totally agreet hat 10$ would be a very suitable price that would get more than double the viewrs 20$ will bring.
Then again I and you might be worng on that
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Thanks Alex, it was a great read, and I agree with you.
I will have a good think about it.
(P.S. I think otters are neat too)
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Thanks for the input Alex. I agree its overpriced and hopefully they'll lower it next time so MLG can have my money.
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On February 14 2012 15:21 StarStruck wrote:
I think it's way too early to be trying to sell PPVs as well. From their charts they believe they'll make more at the $20 price point.
Other thing that puzzles me is the fact they're flying all of the players down for what exactly? I want to know what promotional materials they have lined up. I don't see the marketing strategy and this announcement was incredibly late.
This is way too short-term.
Buying the ticket and voicing your concerns isn't productive either. You would still be supporting it.
Take the money and run.
Good song.
Well the hype of having all 32 players in a live event setting is usually pretty big, and adds legitimacy.
Overall I think MLG will have to lower the price point, especially if someone is already buying a gold pass. Also I hope they plan on in the next event working to secure a GomTV style event where they can get 100 spectators in there, hell rent a party(or whole bar) room in bar out. I think the in a big city like NYC they could easily get a few hundred people to pass in and out over the weekend. No idea on the cost of renting a bar for the weekend, but it can't be that crazy high if you guarantee a certain amount of drinks bought/ food purchased.
I just can't believe they aren't able to have room for a live audience, I mean if your already forking over 100k to get everyone there, there has got to a way to have enough room for a live audience. I sure they explored a ton of options, but I still hope they try and work something out for future events.
I understand you cant increase the amount of content for free, but as a gold member I would expect a discount. somewhere between 25%-50%. If they sell gold memberships for $30 and then 6 PPV events at $10 or maybe $15.
I could see a lot of people going for it at $30+(90)*.66=$90 for 10 full weekends of SCII entertainment. A very reasonable rate, not gomtv but hey at least the HQ stream isn't 480p.
Overall I really like the direction MLG is going, even if the pricing on this isn't quite right. If MLG can make this work we wouldn't be that far from moving toward Korean BW style leagues. Eventually in a year or two if they could prove this sustainable I imagine the goal would be to get top teams to relocate players to the NYC area to host a GOMTV style tourney. Hell MLG could pay housing for a couple Korean teams with the amount they will be paying in Airfare and lodging this year alone(It crazy the amount of international flights the are paying for 24 *6 and 16 *4 for pro circuit. Up to a maximum of 208 + NA qualifiers)
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Instead of PPV I think they should sell physical HD DVDs with some cool bonuses.
It actually works really well in the subculture streaming communities, often getting sold out. The problem I see with PPV is that you are not getting anything tangible.
Give the customers a nice fancy box and I think they'd more than willingly pay $20 to support the scene.
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E) Just watch Assembly for free
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On February 14 2012 15:36 ilbh wrote:
if I understood correctly, there will be a free stream. isnt it?
no there will not be a free stream for the winter area. One thing i'm not sure about is what alex ment by this "I wish (for a variety of reasons) that MLG would take a freemium approach (i.e., free low-quality stream, PPV high-quality stream) to their Arena events, just as they’ll do for their Championship events."
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Option A for me. But I think for 95%+ of people it's going to be option B. Really, $20 is just too much for 1 weekend of content when there's tons of other content around for free.
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On February 14 2012 15:47 Whiteman103 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:36 ilbh wrote:
if I understood correctly, there will be a free stream. isnt it? no there will not be a free stream for the winter area. One thing i'm not sure about is what alex ment by this "I wish (for a variety of reasons) that MLG would take a freemium approach (i.e., free low-quality stream, PPV high-quality stream) to their Arena events, just as they’ll do for their Championship events."
The Winter Arena (and all subsequent Arena Events) will be Pay Per View.
The Championship Events (akin to last year's MLG Pro Circuit Events) will still feature a "freemium" (Free LQ, Paid HQ) format.
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On February 14 2012 15:40 Jarree wrote:Excellent and fast post. I really hope this does not affect your (EG's) relationship with mlg since it wasn't all roses. Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 15:07 ottersareneat wrote:
What do you think of the $20 price point?
I think it’s too high - especially within the context of how other SC2 content providers’ packages are priced. I think that the weekend should cost $10. I think MLG would actually make more money with a $10 price tag for the weekend pass, because I think they’d get more than twice the subscribers at $10 than they’ll get at $20. But that may be just me.
Anyway, that’s the primary, overarching reason why EG is not participating in the referral program.
While I believe this may be the case, I also have a feeling mlg gave you a some what shitty deal, like couple of dollars per referred purchase, and you felt like you could only make a couple hundred dollars max. But if the deal made you enough money would you then had gone with the 20$ overall price?
No, I wouldn't have participated in the referral program unless the overall price point was lowered.
From a personal perspective, I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing a product upon the community, and profiting from sales of said product, if I felt that the price point was unreasonable (both for moral reasons, and because once you push people to buy something that they know isn't worth the money, you instantly lose all of your credibility), and from a business perspective, it doesn't matter how good the revshare is if the product isn't going to sell.
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The way I see it freemium is the only option that could make the industry survive and grow at the same time. In order for us all to live we need both and PPV-only will stop all growth and even remove a considerable amount of the viewerbase.
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Amazing post Alex. Think it says a lot to try and get people to voice their concerns and spend their money as they see fit while actually not looking to profit from a system you see as flawed. Granted I'm sure you make more than the average SC2 fan lol. But I don't think most people would take it in the balls revenue wise to voice their opinion.
Personally I'm torn between A and B. Depends whats going on that weekend.
I don't want to see MLG fail, but I also think they may have slightly overstepped things. We'll find out how it all pans out I guess.
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Thanks for posting, it definitely puts another perspective on things.
If someone didn't work, it'd be super tough for that person to get the money for this, I know for me, $20 is a big chunk in the college student budget D: (I only work enough to get like 100$ every 2 weeks, and I gotta get gas and groceries with that D .
So Sundance, for now, my money is yours because you've proven quality production and effort in listening to the community and improving MLG, but $20... Damn you're getting close to the border of my wallet's desire to watch MLG O.o
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EPT
