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On February 22 2012 13:21 Haeuffchen wrote:
I watched the show for the second time now and you asked for some thoughts on how to improve and/or give feedback to it.
As I see it the show starts out great. There is not much to be said about that. However, almost all new shows are considered to be good and will have a decent viewer pool, in the early stages, especially considering your fame in the community. So rather than focusing on the current state, I will talk a little bit about the further development of the show.
Lets take for reference some other shows and compare your show with them. SOTG and Day9Daily.
SOTG is an entertainment show. It has famous figures from the sc2 scene and talks, as is stated in the title, about the current developments in the game. People tune in to SOTG, because there are interested in the little stories and drama of the scene. They want to hear the opinion of long time pro-gamers. And they like the overall atmosphere of the show. (a bunch of people talking like proper nerds). Sometimes there will be also educational value in the show. For example if SOTG talks about the patches or strategies, but that is not the main focus of it. Its pure entertainment. The people in SOTG are what draws the viewers.
Day9Daily is an educational show. Gamers should learn about sc2, by watching the show. At least that is how it started. Later it became and is more about the persona of day9. Here we have two separate focuses and target groups. One target group is watching the daily, because they like day9 as a person. He is funny, smart and nerdy. Whats not to like? The other want to be educated about the game. Those two are fundamental different types of viewers. Education and entertainment is most of the times not combinable. One can make the statement, that it needs to be entertaining, because it is solely the viewer who decides to watched it, our not. Its not like school, where you need to be and learn. That is of course not wrong, but to which degree should the entertainment aspect be applied? As there is always a intersection set between target groups, there will be some viewers who will not mind the entertainment value or on the other side the education value of the show. But all others will lose interest in it. If the daily focuses to much on entertainment, one target group will lose interest, the same is true for the other case.
Conclusion:
I assume, for all further arguments, that you want to do an educational show. That means you need to focus on that group alone. The first days of the daily(broodwar dailys), where totally educational. A guy sitting in front of his computer and talking about the game. Explaining it to others. More and more the "transitions" made there way into the show and currently half of the time is being spend by day9 talking about some funny story that he ones had.
If you want to help people understand sc2 better, do not start with such things. There is really no need for stopping the game, transition into your close up and talking about an interesting point in the game, while making a joke.
Compare it to the prof., who writes on the board in the lecture hall and wants to make something extremely clear. He usually stops writing, turns around and says something like: "I want to make that perfectly clear. This is important". That behavior is equivalent to stopping the game, saying "This is important" and than showing/saying what is important, without transitioning out of the game. Otherwise you would remove the board out of the lecture hall and then start talking about something on the board. That may seem like a small point, but if you can stay as focuses on the game, as you are right now, you will have an educational show.
Do not make the show about yourself, rather make it about the games. Be very clear about the way the show should work and what it should never be. Who should watch it and who you can never reach. Specialization will always produce better products than broadness will.
(Kind Regards and sorry for any of the many language mistakes I did make)
Agree 100%. Artosis, I think this guy says it best so far. Keep it about the game, even though we fucking love you, and this show will be freaking amazing for learning.
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 First Liquid Red Analysis. Rly good .
Day 9 had a daily about the exact replay and now artosis as well.
To me it was more interesting because i already knew what was going to happen.
So i was able to focus on the analysis.
For future episodes.
You could first show the entire game and then restart and go through the game.
I feel like that would be useful sometimes.
Keep it up.
regards,
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For some reason #3 is above #4 and #5 on the vod list, so I didn't see them untill now, I guess I have 3 hours to burn to watch this amazing analysis!
Don't stop Artosis, thank you so much. 
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Hey !
I can never catch the show live, but watching the vods it would be nice if you could cut the dead space at the beginning of each. Most of em its around 10 minutes of just watching your beautiful face before any talking starts.
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Enjoying the content, thanks.
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Dan, you are a hella boss nerd. Keep this show up, I LOVE watching it.
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thanks for finally doing a Zerg game Artosis !
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bad time for EU though I try to watch! Love the show man and I will be watching vods tomorrow
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On February 22 2012 13:37 TeH_CaRnAg3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 13:21 Haeuffchen wrote:
I watched the show for the second time now and you asked for some thoughts on how to improve and/or give feedback to it.
As I see it the show starts out great. There is not much to be said about that. However, almost all new shows are considered to be good and will have a decent viewer pool, in the early stages, especially considering your fame in the community. So rather than focusing on the current state, I will talk a little bit about the further development of the show.
Lets take for reference some other shows and compare your show with them. SOTG and Day9Daily.
SOTG is an entertainment show. It has famous figures from the sc2 scene and talks, as is stated in the title, about the current developments in the game. People tune in to SOTG, because there are interested in the little stories and drama of the scene. They want to hear the opinion of long time pro-gamers. And they like the overall atmosphere of the show. (a bunch of people talking like proper nerds). Sometimes there will be also educational value in the show. For example if SOTG talks about the patches or strategies, but that is not the main focus of it. Its pure entertainment. The people in SOTG are what draws the viewers.
Day9Daily is an educational show. Gamers should learn about sc2, by watching the show. At least that is how it started. Later it became and is more about the persona of day9. Here we have two separate focuses and target groups. One target group is watching the daily, because they like day9 as a person. He is funny, smart and nerdy. Whats not to like? The other want to be educated about the game. Those two are fundamental different types of viewers. Education and entertainment is most of the times not combinable. One can make the statement, that it needs to be entertaining, because it is solely the viewer who decides to watched it, our not. Its not like school, where you need to be and learn. That is of course not wrong, but to which degree should the entertainment aspect be applied? As there is always a intersection set between target groups, there will be some viewers who will not mind the entertainment value or on the other side the education value of the show. But all others will lose interest in it. If the daily focuses to much on entertainment, one target group will lose interest, the same is true for the other case.
Conclusion:
I assume, for all further arguments, that you want to do an educational show. That means you need to focus on that group alone. The first days of the daily(broodwar dailys), where totally educational. A guy sitting in front of his computer and talking about the game. Explaining it to others. More and more the "transitions" made there way into the show and currently half of the time is being spend by day9 talking about some funny story that he ones had.
If you want to help people understand sc2 better, do not start with such things. There is really no need for stopping the game, transition into your close up and talking about an interesting point in the game, while making a joke.
Compare it to the prof., who writes on the board in the lecture hall and wants to make something extremely clear. He usually stops writing, turns around and says something like: "I want to make that perfectly clear. This is important". That behavior is equivalent to stopping the game, saying "This is important" and than showing/saying what is important, without transitioning out of the game. Otherwise you would remove the board out of the lecture hall and then start talking about something on the board. That may seem like a small point, but if you can stay as focuses on the game, as you are right now, you will have an educational show.
Do not make the show about yourself, rather make it about the games. Be very clear about the way the show should work and what it should never be. Who should watch it and who you can never reach. Specialization will always produce better products than broadness will.
(Kind Regards and sorry for any of the many language mistakes I did make) Agree 100%. Artosis, I think this guy says it best so far. Keep it about the game, even though we fucking love you, and this show will be freaking amazing for learning.
I third this! Try to keep it essentially as it is, it's excellent so far. The high level analytical almost scientific approach is for me, much better than the seemingly ego centric 'how do I feel about this'/cut to response shot approach of day9. You can of course improve the production if you feel so inclined but its not necessary to make it more of a show.
I particularly like that you analyse the game, looking at both sides rather than focusing on one/the star player. Stating why something's good or how/what could be better is very refreshing compared to the usual non-constructive 'this is just bad <forced laugh>' that's common in the community. I think 2-rax bunker openers the world over are going to be a whole lot scarier tomorrow, and I'm sure it's not the end of it.
You sir are a big damn hero, keep it up please!
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On February 22 2012 13:21 Haeuffchen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I watched the show for the second time now and you asked for some thoughts on how to improve and/or give feedback to it.
As I see it the show starts out great. There is not much to be said about that. However, almost all new shows are considered to be good and will have a decent viewer pool, in the early stages, especially considering your fame in the community. So rather than focusing on the current state, I will talk a little bit about the further development of the show.
Lets take for reference some other shows and compare your show with them. SOTG and Day9Daily.
SOTG is an entertainment show. It has famous figures from the sc2 scene and talks, as is stated in the title, about the current developments in the game. People tune in to SOTG, because there are interested in the little stories and drama of the scene. They want to hear the opinion of long time pro-gamers. And they like the overall atmosphere of the show. (a bunch of people talking like proper nerds). Sometimes there will be also educational value in the show. For example if SOTG talks about the patches or strategies, but that is not the main focus of it. Its pure entertainment. The people in SOTG are what draws the viewers.
Day9Daily is an educational show. Gamers should learn about sc2, by watching the show. At least that is how it started. Later it became and is more about the persona of day9. Here we have two separate focuses and target groups. One target group is watching the daily, because they like day9 as a person. He is funny, smart and nerdy. Whats not to like? The other want to be educated about the game. Those two are fundamental different types of viewers. Education and entertainment is most of the times not combinable. One can make the statement, that it needs to be entertaining, because it is solely the viewer who decides to watched it, our not. Its not like school, where you need to be and learn. That is of course not wrong, but to which degree should the entertainment aspect be applied? As there is always a intersection set between target groups, there will be some viewers who will not mind the entertainment value or on the other side the education value of the show. But all others will lose interest in it. If the daily focuses to much on entertainment, one target group will lose interest, the same is true for the other case.
Conclusion:
I assume, for all further arguments, that you want to do an educational show. That means you need to focus on that group alone. The first days of the daily(broodwar dailys), where totally educational. A guy sitting in front of his computer and talking about the game. Explaining it to others. More and more the "transitions" made there way into the show and currently half of the time is being spend by day9 talking about some funny story that he ones had.
If you want to help people understand sc2 better, do not start with such things. There is really no need for stopping the game, transition into your close up and talking about an interesting point in the game, while making a joke.
Compare it to the prof., who writes on the board in the lecture hall and wants to make something extremely clear. He usually stops writing, turns around and says something like: "I want to make that perfectly clear. This is important". That behavior is equivalent to stopping the game, saying "This is important" and than showing/saying what is important, without transitioning out of the game. Otherwise you would remove the board out of the lecture hall and then start talking about something on the board. That may seem like a small point, but if you can stay as focuses on the game, as you are right now, you will have an educational show.
Do not make the show about yourself, rather make it about the games. Be very clear about the way the show should work and what it should never be. Who should watch it and who you can never reach. Specialization will always produce better products than broadness will. (Kind Regards and sorry for any of the many language mistakes I did make)
That's an objective approach of the matter, but I think what drives the show is a more subjective approach.
I mean, Day[9] didn't chose to be a bit less analytical and more comical / self-centered, I think he is just being himself. He seems a great guy, his show became a business which works well, so what we get now is a confident and happy dude making what he truly likes, aka speaking of SC and himself.
I don't think Artosis works the same way, though. Artosis has always been more focused on how great X player is. I mean, back to Ascension (WHERE ARE THE FINALS, ARTOSIS), he was already both quite analytical and focused on how good/famous/genius players were. I mean I can still remember how awesome and great Yosh (or something) is, as a Terran player, a guy I never heard about before / after.
So my advice would be : stick to your guns. Sure you can try to aim for the educational niche as developed above, but first and foremost, analyze the strategies and praise the players. Especially since you are now in the best position to get so much intimate infos/gossips/whatever about the best players in the world, use it! It's the perfect opportunity and it fits your style.
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Thank you so much for these videos Artosis.
As someone who truly loves SC2 and plays it every day, I have to say that your commentary on these excellent games brings back that initial excitement I had when I first saw SC2 VODs for the first time in beta. 2 years later and after grinding thousands of games in NA Masters I just get a giddy feeling watching your analysis that there is so much more out there for me to learn about this game.
In other words, this stuff makes me wiggle.
Keep up the good work man, your show is really something special!
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In which episode he looks at tod?
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Hey Artosis,
First off, thanks for creating this very dense treasure of content. I like your style, it is straight to the point without any fluff or nonsense antics that makes me cringe/get bored.
Realistically speaking, nothing about the content should change. You're a great starcraft mind and that's not going to change for better or worse.
Something minor things that would improve the experience for me--
The beginning of the video is the beginning of the show. This may be an artifact of the twitch vod system, but it is very frustrating for people with slow internet connections that have to load the video before figuring out where it actually starts, and then the buffered portion unbuffers if you try to skip ahead . . . you get the picture.
This is nitpicky, but, since you have such a cerebral, non-stop, hit the points style when answering questions at the end, it requires a high level of focus to . . . focus. If you could arrange the room behind your seat to be a little more balanced and organized, i think it would help with immersion.
Other than that, please please just keep doing what you're doing, you're doing it right.
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Really love the show. Here some short feedback that maybe not been said yet:
I love that you don't mention and do this commercial from other places (GSL) to your show. I know day9 do that all the time from tournaments, I really enjoy that you don't really spamming around your show. And it's a great show!
Would be so boring to hear after each GSL (or other tourament) like "Please go watch the X, where we are trying to be a better gamer".. so sick of that shit some other people do. Keep it up, your amazing!
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Hi Artosis,
I´am a low Master league Terran player and want to get better mechanics.
I realy love your show! Pls could you also explain in your show how to execute things:
For example:
How do you Hotkey the fastest. To be clear I want to know what your hands do and not "you have to make three control groups Marines in 1...".
I have found differnet options but I am not sure if I do it right.
Let´s say I have an army of marines marauders, medivacs + Vikings + Ghosts against P.
1)
a) Box the whole army and press SHIFT + Click on the ghosts and than CTRL + 1 to have my main army without ghosts
b) Now it´s very specific but I think also important. Do you double Click on the ghosts and than hotkey them or do you press CTRL + Click on one ghost? (also do you do this on the main screen or where the units are below?)...and than hotkey them
Also do you use your pinky to press CTRL or do you use the palm of your hand and press 1 with your ring finger??
2)
a) Double Click marines (or CTRL on one marine) -> hotkey wherever
b) Marauders....
c)Medivacs ....
d)....
Maybe I do it competly wrong... Could you please make a daily explaining such things
Thanks in advance for your help
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They let babys be doctors in Korea?
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On February 23 2012 16:28 TanTzoR wrote:
In which episode he looks at tod?
Episode #1! I'm really enjoying the Ret analysis, great games.
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If possible, in the future at some point it would be cool if the show is a consistent thing you keep doing, to have some sort of theme in advance for people to look at.
like, "tomorrow we're going to be looking at a lot of drop play", or "dealing with early harass", or "looking at protoss gas timings", or whatever.
the current "we're looking at this player today" is okay, but it's just an idea for the future if you have more time to dedicate to preparation at any point.
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Looks like Artosis is becoming the new day9 :D
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On February 28 2012 15:30 Angel_ wrote:
If possible, in the future at some point it would be cool if the show is a consistent thing you keep doing, to have some sort of theme in advance for people to look at.
like, "tomorrow we're going to be looking at a lot of drop play", or "dealing with early harass", or "looking at protoss gas timings", or whatever.
the current "we're looking at this player today" is okay, but it's just an idea for the future if you have more time to dedicate to preparation at any point.
I like the fact that he basically has no idea what is going to happen in a game. It makes his 'predictions' very legit (like expecting X play from a player that is behind/or ahead) and it feels great when I agree with him and to see the player in question actually make that decision as well.
The analysis on Ret's game of shattered temple was a perfect example of this I think. ("He 'should' be doing this" vs "he 'is going to ' do this is very different I think " )
A basic 'tomorrow we'll be looking at X player's replay is enough I think. (would be better if he updated the thread as often as he could so people would be aware >.< this show deserves much attention just for the level of analysis that artosis makes..)
Edit: Of course, with this format there is always the danger of 'poor' games, but I think we can learn from pro's mistakes as well.
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EPT
