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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 16:55 SovSov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:46 GenocideRun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 SovSov wrote:
I wouldn't pay $20 unless it was the top 32 players (that means Koreans) competing for over $100,000 over a month (at least) span. and yet hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay 25$ monthly to watch 6 10 minute fights for UFC. Amusing how everyone in eSports wants it free, the best of everything, and always available. UFC is different. Just because UFC pulled it off doesn't mean anything can pull it off. It's amusing how UFC is the "go-to argument" for this. There is better competition elsewhere, I don't have to pay $20 to watch the top level (and MLG Arena isn't even top level) players compete. I can watch MLG championship circuit, GSL, DH, IPL, Home Story, etc etc. UFC is strictly controlled by UFC. They provide all the content and they control it all and the fights are events, not something that happens every day like in SC2. Almost every other sport can be watched for free. Football, Basketball, etc are all FREE. Why don't you compare SC2 to them? Or the fact that SC:BW was wildly popular in Korea without PPV. UFC is only able to pull off their business model because the sport-fighting was already popular and established before UFC was around. They had a huge audience to pull in from. StarCraft is working on gaining that big audience still, and adding PPV only cuts into it, not helps it.
do you think ufc was always the biggest mma promoter? they earned themselves a monopoly and because of it we now have all of the best fighters fighting each other in bigger, more frequent shows. its up to mlg to justify charging for their show, but if they do then everyone gets a much better product because of it.
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Back in the good old days were there any PPV tournaments?
Things have really gone to hell this past year...
EDIT: I mean, the big money is good for players and ESPORTS organizations and sponsors, but not necessarily the fans.
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To be completely honest, I feel that limiting the amount of people being able to watch is not in the interest of any sport. That's what advertisement is for. I do get the immediate outcome behind a paid service, but I feel that most of the times people in charge don't think all of it through or rather chose a business model I perceive as outdated.
If you charge someone for a sports event you will limit the amount of viewers Period. Everybody who suddenly has time on their hands/has only maybe one day to watch stuff etcetc will most likely not suddenly buy the pass, quite the same with people who lack the money (students for example). You start thinking about watching it. Is it worth ist? In my opinion one weekend of starcraft is sure worth it, that is, if you have the time to watch it all undisturbed and have some buddys over or in Teamspeak to watch the games with.
But is it necessary? Sports, and things in general really, grow because of an interest of a large group of people. Starcraft didn't just appear two weeks ago and people started paying 20 bucks per event right of the bat because the genetically felt it had to be awesome.
I think I need to explain my thoughts different. Let's take the two extremes.
1. Starcraft streams are always free in high quality with advertisement to found them.
2. Starcraft costs some X bucks per month/year. HQ streams, no advertisement.
This of course would, for the sake of the general meaning of charging for an event, have to apply to every starcraft stream. So to watch TLO play you maybe buy the "TeamLiquid Playerstream Pass", same for all teams etc. And of course for events. This would drastically limit the versatitlity of Starcraft you get to see, unless you pay a regular fee to every team, which, even in case of the amout to pay would only be 5 bucks (which it probably would not), was too much considering the amount of teams. On top you would have 20 bucks per weekend for all the big LANs
What did I do? I took the example of delivering an event EXKLUSIVELY for advanced payment and applied it to the general scene of Stacraft.
So basically what I feel MLG is doing, is to not add to the amounts of fans E-Sport has by offering a good event where even new people can see how awesome starcraft ist and by that get more people to watch starcraft regularly (thus add in a low but constant amount of money through advertisement to E-Sport in general, because all streamers/events etc would profit from more people). While most other Events offer a free alternative, thus getting the scene to grow as it has over the past years.
In this scenario MLG is eating off of the apple of success without throwing the seeds back into the soil, but devouring it whole. Their own profit might rise (I assume that's what they expect), but the overall amount of money getting into E-Sports will not.
I personally think that closing people out has never helped ANY system what so ever. It's a concept of preservation rather then growth and I do not that is what E-Sports, or any business/sports model needs. I like events with free HQ stream and gladly watch all the advertisement, and if I need a new mouse/keyboard/sportsdrink whatnot I usually try to get the stuff from the stream advertisements or sponsors of my favourite players. That way starcraft keeps growing, free for everybody to watch and as a raising way to get income for the companies supporting it. Ridiculously enough itÄs actually a win-win situation if you let it flow freely, offer the best event which gets a lot of attention/views rather then closing yourself off with the loyal supporters you gathered from earlier (free) events.
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So has MLG become too money-hungry for freestreams at later events this year also, or will this be the only MLG-event watched by nobody?
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After 2011 numbers of MLG pro circuit, people at MLG see opportunity to milk the community. Thats totally reasonable from business point of view, and don't forget MLG is not charity its company that hires a lot of people and is hosting big events and main goal of this company (as every other) is to make revenue.
I brought League Pass, for NBA. For 139.99$ I got access to every game of season and all games in playoffs. Thats 6 months of content with 10h+ of games daily. eSport is nowhere near in production/professionalism and to watch 2 days of tournament Im forced to pay 20$.
I don't blame MLG that they are trying something new. After 2011 and huge success of MLG with Sc2 they take it to another level. I think/hope they will fail, and that they will get very low viewer numbers, but when I see kids paying 100$+ dollars for hour of "coaching aka spending time with pros" then Im not so sure about that.
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$20 would be simple if I actually spent the 3 days in front of my computer and nothing else so I could get my money worth. Instead, I will be popping in and out of user streams, Assembly, and any other SC2 streams that are FREE. You monetize something when there are limited or no other options for the consumer. But when there will be another high-quality (player level) tournament being streamed free, as well as a few high-quality user streams im sure, there are plenty of options for us to enjoy.
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Am I missing something here?
The original post indicates the following
The same basic Championship experience that was free last year will still be available as a free broadcast; so will events like the Online Qualifiers. Some of our completely new offerings, like the Arenas, will be available only by paying a fee
In other words, it's not like all of their content will be PPV; just the extras. Right?
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On February 14 2012 16:58 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:55 SovSov wrote:On February 14 2012 16:46 GenocideRun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 SovSov wrote:
I wouldn't pay $20 unless it was the top 32 players (that means Koreans) competing for over $100,000 over a month (at least) span. and yet hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay 25$ monthly to watch 6 10 minute fights for UFC. Amusing how everyone in eSports wants it free, the best of everything, and always available. UFC is different. Just because UFC pulled it off doesn't mean anything can pull it off. It's amusing how UFC is the "go-to argument" for this. There is better competition elsewhere, I don't have to pay $20 to watch the top level (and MLG Arena isn't even top level) players compete. I can watch MLG championship circuit, GSL, DH, IPL, Home Story, etc etc. UFC is strictly controlled by UFC. They provide all the content and they control it all and the fights are events, not something that happens every day like in SC2. Almost every other sport can be watched for free. Football, Basketball, etc are all FREE. Why don't you compare SC2 to them? Or the fact that SC:BW was wildly popular in Korea without PPV. UFC is only able to pull off their business model because the sport-fighting was already popular and established before UFC was around. They had a huge audience to pull in from. StarCraft is working on gaining that big audience still, and adding PPV only cuts into it, not helps it. do you think ufc was always the biggest mma promoter? they earned themselves a monopoly and because of it we now have all of the best fighters fighting each other in bigger, more frequent shows. its up to mlg to justify charging for their show, but if they do then everyone gets a much better product because of it.
No, I was pointing out how UFC came into a market that already had fans (from the various fighting styles and MMA fans), unlike SC2 where we are still trying to establish a big enough fanbase.
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On February 14 2012 16:58 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:55 SovSov wrote:On February 14 2012 16:46 GenocideRun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 SovSov wrote:
I wouldn't pay $20 unless it was the top 32 players (that means Koreans) competing for over $100,000 over a month (at least) span. and yet hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay 25$ monthly to watch 6 10 minute fights for UFC. Amusing how everyone in eSports wants it free, the best of everything, and always available. UFC is different. Just because UFC pulled it off doesn't mean anything can pull it off. It's amusing how UFC is the "go-to argument" for this. There is better competition elsewhere, I don't have to pay $20 to watch the top level (and MLG Arena isn't even top level) players compete. I can watch MLG championship circuit, GSL, DH, IPL, Home Story, etc etc. UFC is strictly controlled by UFC. They provide all the content and they control it all and the fights are events, not something that happens every day like in SC2. Almost every other sport can be watched for free. Football, Basketball, etc are all FREE. Why don't you compare SC2 to them? Or the fact that SC:BW was wildly popular in Korea without PPV. UFC is only able to pull off their business model because the sport-fighting was already popular and established before UFC was around. They had a huge audience to pull in from. StarCraft is working on gaining that big audience still, and adding PPV only cuts into it, not helps it. do you think ufc was always the biggest mma promoter? they earned themselves a monopoly and because of it we now have all of the best fighters fighting each other in bigger, more frequent shows. its up to mlg to justify charging for their show, but if they do then everyone gets a much better product because of it.
They sure as hell did not earn that monopoly by charging too much for an inferior product when compared to the competition.
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On February 14 2012 16:55 SovSov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:46 GenocideRun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 SovSov wrote:
I wouldn't pay $20 unless it was the top 32 players (that means Koreans) competing for over $100,000 over a month (at least) span. and yet hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay 25$ monthly to watch 6 10 minute fights for UFC. Amusing how everyone in eSports wants it free, the best of everything, and always available. UFC is different. Just because UFC pulled it off doesn't mean anything can pull it off. It's amusing how UFC is the "go-to argument" for this. There is better competition elsewhere, I don't have to pay $20 to watch the top level (and MLG Arena isn't even top level) players compete. I can watch MLG championship circuit, GSL, DH, IPL, Home Story, etc etc. UFC is strictly controlled by UFC. They provide all the content and they control it all and the fights are events, not something that happens every day like in SC2. Almost every other sport can be watched for free. Football, Basketball, etc are all FREE. Why don't you compare SC2 to them? Or the fact that SC:BW was wildly popular in Korea without PPV. UFC is only able to pull off their business model because the sport-fighting was already popular and established before UFC was around. They had a huge audience to pull in from. StarCraft is working on gaining that big audience still, and adding PPV only cuts into it, not helps it.
BW had a TV deal and major corporate sponsors that were locked in and were not going to go anywhere due to that TV deal. Also removing the flight fees running e-sports leagues in just korea was probably one of the most easily profitable ventures for a television station to have. If you add in flight fees and the lack of television sponsorship than western e-sports needs a better way to generate income than simple streams with some adds on them.
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Boycott MLG, don't let them get away with treating us like idiots.
GOM, Dreamhack, IEM, IPL, NASL all run successfully by standard advertising.
Sundance tweeted :
"look - I know this is a shock to some but it has to happen. That or we'll wind up with 2 events a year and no NA scene."
Is anyone actually swallowing his Bullshit ?
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On February 14 2012 17:06 Parcelleus wrote:
Boycott MLG, don't let them get away with treating us like idiots.
GOM, Dreamhack, IEM, IPL, NASL all run successfully by standard advertising.
Sundance tweeted :
"look - I know this is a shock to some but it has to happen. That or we'll wind up with 2 events a year and no NA scene."
Is anyone actually swallowing his Bullshit ?
Its Bullshit i know how can that be said by him when he had biggest successfull MLG ever with 240,000 concurrent viewers last year during providence i think.
I think we are getting ripped off big time. I hope no-one watches MLG if they try and pull this trick.
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On February 14 2012 16:58 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:55 SovSov wrote:On February 14 2012 16:46 GenocideRun wrote:On February 14 2012 16:44 SovSov wrote:
I wouldn't pay $20 unless it was the top 32 players (that means Koreans) competing for over $100,000 over a month (at least) span. and yet hundreds of thousands of people are willing to pay 25$ monthly to watch 6 10 minute fights for UFC. Amusing how everyone in eSports wants it free, the best of everything, and always available. UFC is different. Just because UFC pulled it off doesn't mean anything can pull it off. It's amusing how UFC is the "go-to argument" for this. There is better competition elsewhere, I don't have to pay $20 to watch the top level (and MLG Arena isn't even top level) players compete. I can watch MLG championship circuit, GSL, DH, IPL, Home Story, etc etc. UFC is strictly controlled by UFC. They provide all the content and they control it all and the fights are events, not something that happens every day like in SC2. Almost every other sport can be watched for free. Football, Basketball, etc are all FREE. Why don't you compare SC2 to them? Or the fact that SC:BW was wildly popular in Korea without PPV. UFC is only able to pull off their business model because the sport-fighting was already popular and established before UFC was around. They had a huge audience to pull in from. StarCraft is working on gaining that big audience still, and adding PPV only cuts into it, not helps it. do you think ufc was always the biggest mma promoter? they earned themselves a monopoly and because of it we now have all of the best fighters fighting each other in bigger, more frequent shows. its up to mlg to justify charging for their show, but if they do then everyone gets a much better product because of it.
It's a 100% guarantee that MLG still isn't going to compare to GSL though. Production quality wise even Providence doesn't compare to anything post the first season of Code S.
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On February 14 2012 16:10 YMCApylons wrote:
How they can justify $20 for one event, when GSL will give you a year for $70 is beyond me. This price point is seriously out of whack.
Yeah, was a buying customer before (silver subscription) but 20$ (double the price of what I paid for Raleigh, Orlando + Providence) is way too high for 3 days of sc2 imo :/
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On February 14 2012 16:19 sixfour wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 16:11 Nimic wrote:
What a great way of getting people to spend more money even after they have bought Gold Membership; label new events something else! yeah, it sounds vaguely similar to what a certain korean-based organisation does. arena of legends anyone? price point appears to have been shot way too high. i'd probably chip in $5 if: - i knew i'd be able to see a lot of the euro's games - knew there was a no tasteless guarantee - wasn't coincidentally another major event the same weekend and i'm fairly sure more than four times the people would pay $5 than would pay $20. heck, set it up as min $5 and pay what you think it's worth.
Arena of Legends is a side tournament, not a qualifier for a grand finals
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On February 14 2012 16:58 IdrA wrote:
its up to mlg to justify charging for their show, but if they do then everyone gets a much better product because of it.
Yes, it's up to MLG. And yes, this next product will be better, and maybe the one after (assuming they get the expected amout of people to pay). But in general they limit themselves. Rather then bringing up new funky fun stuff, increase the attractivity of the event to gain more viewers and creats interest / fans over time, they shut their curtains.
Growth and expansion always outweights the aspects of Limitation and sticking to what you have in the long run. Seeing your playstyle you do understand.
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This will not end well.
I've been following MLG since the Halo 2 days, and there's a much better way they could handle this. Between this, the championship, and gold members, this whole thing will be one clusterf*** of a failure.
For the price point, its not worth it. ~7 would be more reasonable.
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On February 14 2012 17:02 Covariance wrote:
Am I missing something here?
The original post indicates the following
The same basic Championship experience that was free last year will still be available as a free broadcast; so will events like the Online Qualifiers. Some of our completely new offerings, like the Arenas, will be available only by paying a fee
In other words, it's not like all of their content will be PPV; just the extras. Right?
DINGINGDING you are correct young sir
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On February 14 2012 16:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:Just a cross-post of my thoughts from EGAlex's thread: Just to put some things in perspective, I did a little digging back, and there was NOTHING that would lead anyone to believe MLG's Winter Arena was NOT part of the "2012 Pro Circuit" In this interview, the MLG Winter Arena Online Qualifiers, MLG Winter Arena, and MLG Winter Championship are all referred to as part of the 2012 Pro Circuit. In all previous mentions of the Winter Arena (bar the initial mention of prize pools being separate from the Championship Events) no differentiation was made between the Winter Arena and Winter Championship as far as the Pro Circuit is concerned. I think MLG should have announced this either: a) With the announcement of the new 2012 Pro Circuit [and Arenas, since apparently they are not part of the Pro Circuit] or b) With the re-vamp of the MLG Subscription Program. Everything about this just screams "exploitation through misinformation" in my mind.
this. MLG really dropped the ball this time.
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Wait so what was the point in me buying n mlg membership? There is no way I'm paying for that plus 20 dollars just for one weekend
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EPT
