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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 11:09 FXOBoSs wrote:
I will be buying a ticket. But, I will also be at the event. If the production quality is not up to par, I will whine to them. For $20 the show better be good.. Arena is a good platform to actually do really good production, so it better live up to my expectations ~_~
Not having to deal with holding the event in the venue will go a long way toward production. All the issues of moving setting up and tearing down in a weekend takes a lot of time and money. Also, getting all the players to the event allows them to plan better.
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On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
This is why you can't give MLG any subscription money. They are clearly still figuring out their business model, and if in the meantime you aleady bought a $30 gold pass, you are out that money, while they are still changing their offering.
You already paid the $30, and are signed up for auto-renew, but MLG hasn't figured out exactly what they will give you for that money.
They probably felt emboldened to do this move after seeing their success with the yearly membership.
This is why doing something "for esports" is a bad idea.... if an idea on it own merits works out for both parties, then thats sustainable, whats not sustainable is trying to help along MLG while they experiment with how to run a SC2 business.
Sundance will claim that if MLG fails, SC2 fails.... that's not the case.... if MLG fails, maybe its because they have a CEO who made some bad moves.. not because SC2 isn't a strong growing esport.
Sundance claiming there aren't enough SC2 fans to run an advertising business, is exactly akin to Idra saying the Z can't beat P. The fact that Sundances' tweet basically says the ad model is dead despite 98% of tournement running on that model is just like Idra QQ'ing about zerg while Stephano wins tournaments left and right.
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken!
You seem rather misinformed if you're comparing sc2 tournaments to big corporations like google and facebook. Terribly terribly misinformed...
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It would be cool if we could compare later the profits from this event and the past ones.
I'll probably download the VODs later.
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Northern Ireland101 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:11 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 11:07 casualman wrote:On February 14 2012 11:03 Crainey wrote:
I honestly can't understand this decision by MLG. They could make as much money if not more money from doing the free stream + ad revenue including the subscription offerings, that I always sign up for. What makes even less sense is that they're releasing the VODs a week later, I'd expect a PPV event to be exclusive to those who pay to see the event, would not expect to see VODs a week later.
With Assembly being on at the same time and the VODs being released a week later I imagine very few Europeans at least will want to pay-to-view, I mean sure one will be on earlier in the day than the other and they'll be a small overlap if any but I don't know how many people will want to watch SC2 all day from 1pm to 4am or something.
Given that this event will certainly see far fewer viewers than the other events, and probably less people paying (subscription for HD on seasons) despite it being $20 compared to less for Gold membership, I can't imagine this will bring in more than the standard format. In the situation that MLG doesn't make more money from this format then all they'll have achieved is encouraging other tournaments to try this and hurt their public image (people may think they're getting greedy and becoming a greedy corporation run by suits).
All this negative stuff aside I guess it's good for us to experiment with new things and see how they turn out. This kind of PPV event will be massive for the Barcraft community and will not doubt see massive turnout!
I wish MLG the best of luck but I thought I should just offer my thoughts and throw it out there! They don't. That's exactly why they're doing this--because living off advertisement revenue isn't enough to sustain MLG or isn't enough to propel them to the vision of the business that they have. Exactly, I dont know where people keep thinking that this is a sustainable business model... Perhaps if there were less SC2 tournaments in general then perhaps it would work better, but thats not the case.
Living off advertisement revenue? They charge for HD streams as well, not to mention sponsorship offerings.
I'll agree that they need to move forward and grow however I still stand by this not being a good decision. Personally I don't ever watch TV and I have never watched pay-per-view television so I'm instantly going to be against this. As somebody from Europe I can honestly say you'd need to be stupid to pay to watch this when there is another major tournament on at the same time and VODs will be up a week later.
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yeah.....no sorry asus rog gets my watching then.
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20 bucks for just one weekend? Sorry I won't be buying it. I need to see more consistent quality tournaments from MLG before I think of buying. The Dallas debacle is still fresh in my mind.
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On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
Sundance claiming there aren't enough SC2 fans to run an advertising business, is exactly akin to Idra saying the Z can't beat P. The fact that Sundances' tweet basically says the ad model is dead despite 98% of tournement running on that model is just like Idra QQ'ing about zerg while Stephano wins tournaments left and right.
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken!
Quoted for truth. I also would be pretty disappointed if I was a gold member pass holder or whatever it´s called. Sort of a slap in the face. I liked MLG after they got their shit together after Dallas(eagles anyone?... :D) because they stepped up their game and produced good stable content. But 20 bucks is an audacious amount of money based on the market situation if you will, they better deliver for that amount of money or fail horribly and rethink their steps.
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Sadly, I have no money - I will not be paying for this.
I really dislike the PPV model. It makes it so difficult for casual and new fans to tune in.
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On February 14 2012 10:58 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 10:01 BluePanther wrote:
PPV... Isn't full content what I was promised when I purchased the Gold Membership? lol, I feel sorry for all you suckers...no offense. When you start to pay for stuff these money grubbers get it in their head you will pay for anything even if they have already charged you for it. It's the way of the world, and the only way to prevent future fees is to not pay the current fees.
Yeah, paying for stuff makes you a sucker. I never pay for music. Those money grubbing artists living in their solid gold houses. I never pay for games. I just pirate them. I bum cigarettes, steal bread, look over peoples' shoulders, splice cables, plug into my neighbors' power outlets. I don't pay taxes. It's not like the roads are going to disappear if I don't.
No offense, but if you pay for things you like, you're a sucker. Hey, no offense, though -- it's not like 'sucker' is a clear insult. I'm a proud blood-sucking parasite, but nobody takes advantage of me.
<end ridicule of a-hole>
This is a risky maneuver by MLG. As much improved as MLG's tournament running has been, there is still a ton of downtown between games at most events. If they want people to be paying just to watch, they had better make sure that everything runs smoothly and that literally nothing goes wrong.
I think I might sit this one out. I don't begrudge MLG making money at all. And I certainly don't think that their charging money for their product is "greedy." But I wonder if they have considered that one reason that people stay in on the weekend instead of "going to a movie (and the concession stand) or buying a round of drinks" or whatever their example was, is that it's a free, lazy weekend alternative to going out and spending money. For me, the tournament is usually something that I am mostly half paying attention to as I clean my apartment or do laundry. I haven't made a final decision, but right now I am disinclined to pay $20.
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I will pay, but I expect to get my moneys worth. Your normal production just isn't going to cut it for me.
My expectations are as follows:
1. Zero downtime - When one match finishes you have 5-7 minutes to get the next match going. Anything longer then that would be unnacceptable. Don't try to give me the players weren't ready bullshit. Prepeare in advance. Have scheduled breaks or an intermission of sorts to allow the players to take the break they need to eat, use washroom, socialize with friends etc etc. If the downtime is scheduled I have no issue with it. I can do something else for an hour and come back to watch when the break is over.
2. No commercials - I do not need to see Fergi deepthroat a Dr. Pepper can every ten minutes.
3. Top notch production - No stream lag, no excuses. 720p has got to go, for $20 I expect 1080, nothing less.
4. Player interaction - Do some interviews, have the viewers do some questions via twitter/facebook. Have some staff members walk around with some cameras to get shots of the players.
5. All around a good time - I want to have fun while watching this. My friends are going to be coming over and we want to have a good time while watching great matches. What we don't want to do is get excited for this only to be let down and end up doing something else.
Am I expecting to much? To me this is more then possible to do. You want my money i will give it to you. But like yourselves I expect some type of ROI
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This will be the first MLG event that I will not watch. I am quite disappointed, but I guess such is life, I will carry on and watch something else in that time frame. Probably Assembly or some streams etc.
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Sooooooo many ignorant/retarded people in 1 thread.. mind is blown ~_~
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I want to watch it badly, but I simply just don't have the money atm. Life of a poor college student sucks big time
MLG should've tried to gather revenue through other services than a PPV event. This isn't 2005 anymore
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I'll pay it, But there better be no commercials for $20 and high quality, and no stream hiccups. When you charge that much you are making a commitment. I'm also going to be inviting over all my friends to watch, so 5-7 people will be watching (just like any pay per view).
EDIT:
Oh and a FUCKING mobile APP!!! For fucks sake, GOM has one, why can't anyone else do it??? HTML5 isn't hard people, bring action script behind the barn and end it FFS.
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United States22883 Posts
On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken!
Youtube lost billions of dollars for years and has only relatively recently begun to make money for Google. Most football, basketball and baseball teams are losing money, which is why they have revenue sharing from the giants. Television is dying with advertising, media is dying with advertising. And the actual truth is that SC2 is dying with advertising. People have been fed a vision of mainstream ESPORTS for too long, and they don't realize people are just taking loss leaders on a hope that's never going to happen. Even the giants in BW have been falling for years.
It's a bubble and a niche, and there will never be a viewership that can sustain an advertising based/free system. Never. The entire system is currently reliant on investors, and you can't keep that up.
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I'm confused if they think the free model was not sustainable then why did they make it very clear the much more expensive main live championship events would keep using the unsustainable free stream model?
Are other games doomed unless they go PPV? People debated LoL a bit but what about fighting games and halo and CoD and in the near future Dota 2 or other games? Is anyone going to ask those communities to support esports in the same way?
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On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
This is why you can't give MLG any subscription money. They are clearly still figuring out their business model, and if in the meantime you aleady bought a $30 gold pass, you are out that money, while they are still changing their offering.
You already paid the $30, and are signed up for auto-renew, but MLG hasn't figured out exactly what they will give you for that money.
They probably felt emboldened to do this move after seeing their success with the yearly membership.
This is why doing something "for esports" is a bad idea.... if an idea on it own merits works out for both parties, then thats sustainable, whats not sustainable is trying to help along MLG while they experiment with how to run a SC2 business.
Sundance will claim that if MLG fails, SC2 fails.... that's not the case.... if MLG fails, maybe its because they have a CEO who made some bad moves.. not because SC2 isn't a strong growing esport.
Sundance claiming there aren't enough SC2 fans to run an advertising business, is exactly akin to Idra saying the Z can't beat P. The fact that Sundances' tweet basically says the ad model is dead despite 98% of tournement running on that model is just like Idra QQ'ing about zerg while Stephano wins tournaments left and right.
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken!
Wait, google and facebook do not make content in any way. They make money off of other people content and bring the users to view it. That is how they make money off of adds.
MGL is not as SC2 search engine or social networking site. They make things and that costs money. If people thought they were going to watch SC2 for free with commercials every 20-30 minutes, I don't know what to tell you. We were going to have to pay at some point. They tried to make it free last year and they were not as successful.
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I was hesitant... at first but then checked out the new stream player and it looks crazy as shit. Bought it but I hope to god it goes well. I hate twitch.tv most times, as it stutters more so than any other stream.
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Will be buying it. I worked 3.5 years in the event production business, I understand the costs and work involved in pulling off something like this. Whether I give MLG any more money this year will depend on how this goes. Last time I gave them money I ended up watching baby eagles.
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I'll try it out this once just to see what the production is like. If it is high enough, I'll probably buy again. At anyrate, this promises to be an interesting experiment with eSports business models. GG GL MLG
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EPT
