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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
Eh. Don't think it's worth it for me personally, especially considering I miss half of Saturday and my internet can't handle two HQ streams, let alone five. GOMTV got my money already, not sure I want to spend much more.
I don't know how I feel about the anger that people are throwing out here. It's like people think they're patrons (who mostly don't pay) as opposed to customers. I suppose part of that is the way companies have changed and made them seem "friendly", particularly in eSports. Really though, MLG is trying a new model. It's not like they're fucking anyone over here. Don't buy it if you're not interested.
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On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream.
AOL had no free stream.
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It's not that they don't deserve my money, it's just that I can't afford it. If I were a rich guy with a 6 figure job (hell, even a non-minimum wage job), I would pay in a blink of an eye. But quite frankly, I am a college student with literally no disposable income. I skip meals to pay for GSL.  No MLG Arena for me. Luckily, there are other tounaments like Assembly, ESV Korean Weekly, NASL, but I hope they don't start migrating too. I don't mind getting blasted with some more ads, please keep a free alternative though. T.T
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There's so many amazing SC2 tourneys and events FOR FREE that paying 20 dollars for a weekend event seems ridiculous. Every week there are multiple FREE events, including on the same weekend as this MLG event. Sure, they'll be some good players there, but the precedent of having a free (even if it's low quality) stream has been set and it's the model that everyone follows. Hope the money you earn is worth losing fans and advertising revenue.
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I'd pay the 20$ if I was able to watch the whole weekend ;/
I'm not a huge fan of watching VODs - I like the live stream experience better ;]
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20$ isn't much, that's fair to say. However, They have to seriously step up production value and make sure they have an all star lineup for this to get me and many people sold. Give me amazing players, great stakes, and some god damn fucking hype (seriously, ZOWIE DIVINA had the best pre-game hype/production outside of the GSL............) Do these things, and I and others would likely pay for the event.
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On February 14 2012 09:41 critique wrote:
When I first read this I was surprised, but then I took an arrow to the knee remembered how much fun I had watching every single MLG in 2011 (yes, even dallas was kind of fun. It was like listening to sc2 on the radio while viewing a slide show of the match). Seriously some of my fondest memories of 2011 are MLG related, and that was a year I did a few things I am proud of (graduated college, got a job, realized what I want to do with my life). Take my $20, its a small price to pay to be glued to my computer screen for a weekend.
I agree its worth more than $20 to me personally, but I won't pay it on principle because giving that money to TL or the players directly or even to a shoutcraft event will do SO MUCH MORE than giving it to MLG.
Imagine what someone who loves esports, like TB or Day9, would do with such direct investment from the community.
Esports is going to be huge, but I don't think MLG is the right horse to back with our dollars. MLG loves MLG...I have no doubt that SC2 can find a better community partner and a better business model.
They literally just stream a computer game!!!! They don't have camera's placed all around an arena to catch the action in real time.
MLG is essentially saying today..... you owe us for last year, we need more from you SC2 fans, otherwise esports can't grow. Despite having their best year and growing so fast in viewership, its not enough now all of a sudden.
I, for one, and willing to call their bluff. It is a bluff.... if they can't make money off SC2 advertising then their cost structure is too high. Its certainly growing fast and growing still, and MLG isn't willing to wait for it to pay off, they want the money up front.
Last year they paid about 100k in winnings to the players.... what percentage of revenue was that? In the NFL, NBA, Tennis, players get 50% of revenue.... in SC2 its looking like MLG pays out less than 10% to the players.
If you LOVE MLG... then give your money to MLG, but if you LOVE STARCRAFT and PLAYERS there are better places for your dollars!
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To quote from the first page: "Assembly it is"
I hope they reconcile and return to the old format where there is a free low quality stream and for people with higher demands there is always the HD stream and more cameras, etc.
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Overall not a well thought out idea in my opinion. MLG has probably doubled or even triple in fans because of the SC2 scene. I understand charging money for an all HD stream, but it should also be available to everyone in LQ like GomTV does.
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On February 14 2012 09:32 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:28 zefreak wrote:On February 14 2012 09:24 jmbthirteen wrote:
To everyone talking about how GSL is cheaper, how is that korean sc2 scene? They are really thriving over there aren't they? I mean, those players are making a ton of money. And GOM is just rich as hell. I heard that Mr. Chae wipes his ass with $100 bills.
Oh wait, you mean the korean scene is incredibly small, players don't get salaries, teams need more sponsorship and are making deals with foreign teams to get money? And they can only play in tournaments outside of GSL if their trip gets paid for?
So GOMs format isn't really growing the scene much is it? What's your point? You get more games with better players for less money.. and you are supporting the korean SC2 scene which apparently needs it badly. My point is that something needs to change. What GOM is doing for the Korean scene, it is not sustainable right now. Its not a sustainable business model any where right now. There are not enough viewers to rely on ad revenue like people hope. Its not growing the scene. The scene needs money.
And you expect the money to come from PPV ? That's really funny.
Money are coming from sponsors, you gain sponsors by gaining bigger exposure, by doing PPV format you are limiting your viewers... Something wrong ?
eSports is way too small for PPV.
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Their pricing is based on us watching 20 hours of content over what I think is two days? In comparison to GSL where I can watch well produced and more content whenever I want to. MLG's content in the past has been really shaky. But because this is a much smaller event, I feel like their quality can be vastly increased because there is a lot less to focus on. I would bet a lot that MLG will go balls to the wall in their production value.
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On February 14 2012 08:35 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 08:33 canikizu wrote:
PPV concept has always been like this. The viewers count will go down, but if the number is high enough, they still make money and still gonna start others PPV tournaments in the future.
Personally, I'm okay with it although I'm a little annoyed. It's a niche market and as long as it makes money, it's gonna stay there.
I just dont get how its going to make money if you figure that you would be looking at around 100k viewers for the winter arena and you need 5% of them to pay to watch it. I know thinking about it in those terms it sounds reasonable but that is actually a harder number to reach than it sounds like.
Sundance and his people should have a rough number analyzed from past MLG data to calculate and make it profitable. There are many ways to calculate it. For example, let's say normally MLG has 60k of free viewers and 5k of paid viewers, and the make 10k of ad revenue. Now they ppv it, and 5k paid viewers still pay, but for 60k of free viewers, there're always people who can afford to pay, but choose not to, but now they are going to pay. Let's say we have 1k of them, so MLG make 20k. So, even though there're only 1.7% of 60k viewers, MLG is gonna make double the money.
That's roughly how it works, although only Sundance knows all the detailed numbers. I hate to say it, but PPV for a carefully crafted and hyped tournaments is gonna bring in money, whether the majority of viewers like it or not.
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9070 Posts
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life.
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There's no way I'm paying for anything other than the GSL, I'll pass on this one.
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On February 14 2012 09:49 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:48 casualman wrote:On February 14 2012 09:46 Timerly wrote:On February 14 2012 09:44 Clank wrote:On February 14 2012 09:33 SonOfBoxer wrote:On February 14 2012 09:30 jinixxx123 wrote:On February 14 2012 09:27 SonOfBoxer wrote:
Well, I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again anyhow: personally, I can't find sense in paying for any tournament that isn't the GSL. Some people like to say "if you don't support them, you're killing e-sports!", but Chill himself had the perfect answer for those guys: "If you show your support by paying, you'll create a bubble" (something like that).
You see, the GSL is the best tournament in the world not because of some specific format or something like that, but because it has the best players in the world. Like one of our favorite TL Writers once wrote: "There's no such thing as hidden gosus anymore", and he is right. Nowadays, if you're good, everybody knows about you. So, why should I spend a relatively high amount of cash to see a minor tournament? Or worse: a pre-tournament?
GOM charges 20 bucks for 2 straight months of pure awesomeness, whereas foreign companies want to charge almost (or more than) that for a weekend worth of low-level games (when compared to the GSL). So, really, it makes no sense paying to watch anything but the GSL so far, unless you have cash to burn. dude cut the bullshit, very high code S players are playing in this tournament. as i said in this thread, say the fee is to much or you are not paying , dont come here with such bullshit reasons. Evidently, you are one of those who has cash to burn. And don't be so mad at me because I actually value my money. Cry all you want, but the fact remains this is a low level tournament, and that they want to charge "just 20 bucks for 20 hours of streaming" whereas I can pay 20 bucks for 2 months of the best streaming in the world. So, yeah, keep the rage coming baby cake. LOL, low level tournament? they have some of the top players in the scene and a 26k prize pool. But yes, other tournaments are cheaper than this arena will be, however, are those other tournaments actually making money? I have no idea (other than IPL, which is losing money), but the fact that MLG isn't currently making money with all of their viewers, I would assume these other tournaments are also losing money. MLG is trying to bring money into the scene with a quality product and actually make money and really grow the scene. To my knowledge most of the remaining big LAN events like Assembly and Dreamhack break even overall. It might make sense for European tournaments to be fine with breaking even just off of the love of the game, but in America if it doesn't make money, it doesn't fly is the trend, sadly to say. The first goal for a business should be to break even and then to try to grow, its not bad to break even you can carry on forever breaking even every time.
That makes sense, but when you look at how long these events have been in business: for mlg, almost a decade, ESL same time, WCG since 2000, that's a long time to be stagnant.
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Significantly more money than other things, such as GSL. I'm curious if this will pan out as well as Sundance hopes. I'll buy it once and see how I like it. You got once chance to impress me!
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On February 14 2012 09:51 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream. Nope, not AOL. That was premium only.
Only the first one was restricted to ticketholders (of the previous GSL season). The AOL events that followed had free streams.
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On February 14 2012 09:53 Vansetsu wrote:
20$ isn't much, that's fair to say. However, They have to seriously step up production value and make sure they have an all star lineup for this to get me and many people sold. Give me amazing players, great stakes, and some god damn fucking hype (seriously, ZOWIE DIVINA had the best pre-game hype/production outside of the GSL............) Do these things, and I and others would likely pay for the event.
This is completely true, considering this tournament is in like 10 days you would think they would be hyping the shit out of it.
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On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream.
yeah. they do the very minimum they have to according to the videopolicy. MLG would be the first tournament that actually denies you any content unless you pay, right?
so they are the first to violate the videopolicy. this either means blizzard changed their policy or MLG made an exclusive deal with blizzard? which is odd because i thought GSL kind of was in bed with blizzard..
wtf am i missing here? and why dont more ppl pay attention to this.
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On February 14 2012 09:55 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:51 aderum wrote:On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream. Nope, not AOL. That was premium only. Only the first one was restricted to ticketholders (of the previous GSL season). The AOL events that followed had free streams.
well that wasnt the question.,..
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EPT
