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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 09:56 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream. yeah. they do the very minimum they have to according to the videopolicy. MLG would be the first tournament that actually denies you any content unless you pay, right? so they are the first to violate the videopolicy. this either means blizzard changed their policy or MLG made an exclusive deal with blizzard? which is odd because i thought GSL kind of was in bed with blizzard.. wtf am i missing here? and why dont more ppl pay attention to this.
You're forgetting the first " Arena of Legends " tournament. It was PPV, although the ones following also had a free stream because GOM realized that the model did not work.
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America, FUCK NO. #Boycott Time (I have more intelligent things to say, but frankly, MLG, you just lost me. For good I think).
At least do us all one back, Sundance, and use any profit from the Arena on promoting the game. I mean, get it out there. I can't tell you how many people I've met this last year who consider themselves gamers, but have no clue what MLG is. One guy was from Columbus, Ohio. Put simply, I don't think you're advertising enough and as one of the world's premier tournaments you ought to be out there growing the sport to the point where ad-based revenue is sufficient. If you didn't have the money before...
Also, for the record, I've never seen an MLG ad, never. I'm sure they exist, but wtf. Look, it's not easy, hell it's friggin hard to grow something like this (I know personally), but that's why it's worth it. You get out what you put in and PPV is a cheap fix. Is that all you want eSports to be, Sundance? A cheap fix? Damn. Honestly, I feel like your advertising campaign is pretty much word of mouth and that's it.
And one more thing, I live in America, particularly the U.S. I could afford this, but what about your global viewers (American or not) who can't? People who have supported you along the way? Now you leave them behind (yeah, it's just one tournament per season...for now). What a shitty thing to do.
If I'm too harsh, then I'm too harsh, but I'm done with MLG.
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This guy, sundance, needs to learn to change this "We want to help e-sports, pay us" mentality... the whole "I Support E-sports" mindset is pretty much abused by now.
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On February 14 2012 09:56 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream. yeah. they do the very minimum they have to according to the videopolicy. MLG would be the first tournament that actually denies you any content unless you pay, right? so they are the first to violate the videopolicy. this either means blizzard changed their policy or MLG made an exclusive deal with blizzard? which is odd because i thought GSL kind of was in bed with blizzard.. wtf am i missing here? and why dont more ppl pay attention to this.
Wrong. AoL did not have a live stream. Like the people above said there's ways to get exceptions
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My 2 cents:
I believe that in order to pay for the cost of flying all of these players to NYC for the entire event. MLG kind of has to chrage this amount to viewers. Especially since people won't be paying at the live event. Also the live event won't have ads, other merchandise etc.
Is it worth it? Maybe. MLG has delivered in the past, and no one can really deny that the level of skill he is incredible. Assembly does have some sick nerd ballers as well, don't get me wrong.
Will I personally be paying? No. I'm gone that weekend so it doesn't even matter.
The best players in the world play at the GSL, so already the 15$ you pay for the light ticket is already ten times more worth it than this is.
I really wish they had announced that it would cost this much before, only a week and a half away seems a little funny to me.
So anyways, I cant really say im that mad at Sundance, John Nelson, or whoever it is. In the end, to the suits, esports is a business, and they will do what they can to make sure this business stays a float.
P.S. I am a gold member, pay for GSL/GSTL so I'm not opposed to paying for stuff
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Really really awful plan, heres what could have been done.
- Realize flying out 32 players for 100 thousand dollars with no live audience is a complete waste of money
- Invest half that money in a higher prize pool and real qualifiers (lol at the NA players invited over me o.o?)
- Hold tournament online and cast all games with high production value similar to IPL
- Broadcast said games inbetween actualy MLG live events
-???
- Profit
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Actually I'm not nearly as upset as I was when I initially read the thread title. In fact I think I might go for it. If MLG's intentions are clear and they are really doing this to try to take esports to the next level I'm actually fine with this.
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20$ .. lolololol. See you at assembly.
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On February 14 2012 09:39 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:24 jmbthirteen wrote:
To everyone talking about how GSL is cheaper, how is that korean sc2 scene? They are really thriving over there aren't they? I mean, those players are making a ton of money. And GOM is just rich as hell. I heard that Mr. Chae wipes his ass with $100 bills.
Oh wait, you mean the korean scene is incredibly small, players don't get salaries, teams need more sponsorship and are making deals with foreign teams to get money? And they can only play in tournaments outside of GSL if their trip gets paid for?
So GOMs format isn't really growing the scene much is it? Jeez, you're misinformed. Just because SOME PLAYERS like Idra, Huk, etc. can make big money on foreigner teams, DOES NOT MEAN THE FOREIGNER SCENE IS RICH. E-sports is still growing in Korea and America. You do realize that a lot of foreigners have extremely small salaries, right? I'm sure the richest of the rich in the foreign scene such as Idra, Huk, Stephano, etc. get paid more than the richest Korean in base salary, but the foreigner scene still doesn't have the infrastructure to do these kind of PPV's. If this Winter Arena turns out to be awesome, has high production value, can exploit the idea of having just about a hundred great players in an arena with no fans, then I might pay for the next one. But this is not the real tournament. This is something new that they are trying and it might fail miserably. MLG was a great tournament last year, but they still had major production problems throughout the year and it'll be interesting to see how this works.
You misunderstood my point, or I didn't construct it the best way.
In no way do I think the foreign scene is rich. It certainly has more money than the Korean scene, as small salaries > no salaries, but its not rich. And the Korean scene is absolutely capitalizing on the foreign scene and their money right now. I think MLG moving to PPV shows this. Its time to monetize sc2. I realize the Huk and Idra's making good money is extremely rare. But thats not even the point I'm making.
I'm saying right now, GSL isn't really growing the scene. One league for the entire korean scene, prize pool is nice, but when these players aren't getting a salary, its not enough. The free stream + pay for HD/Vods isn't enough to continue growing the scene. Things need to change. No one is making money with this model, especially players!
MLG knows this because they used this model. Its only carrying the scene so far. The scene needs money. PPV can bring in that money. Internet ads do not bring in the revenue TV ads do. So say MLG gets 200,000k watching, where as ESPN 2 has 200,000k watching poker, ESPN 2 is making more money off ad revenue.
MLG is hosting a tournament that is no cost to the teams and players. And it has a $26k prizepool, and the top 16 get expenses paid for to the championship. This is absolutely better for the players. Using the tradition free stream + pay for HD/Vods can't sustain this growth. PPV being successful can. Yes, its a risk, every tournament is a risk. Relying on sponsorships to cover everything is a HUGE risk for the scene to grow.
tl dr - things need to change for eSports to grow and be sustainable.
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the only way for something like this to even have a hope of succeeding is if the event that pioneered it was of such weighty prestige that no fan of starcraft could possible stand to be left out in the cold.
mlg winter area is not that. it has a few big names, but no exclusivity over them (ruling out the MMA title fight lure) and the championship itself is near meaningless. it's only after 3 days of investment do i really care who wins, and even then i don't have anything like the investment i would in something like a world cup game.
the biggest assets mlg had going for it was the hype it received from the community and the spectacle, this event will have neither. a meaningless championship with only a partial number of top class players, and one that won't be hard to ignore due to the minute number of fans who will invest in it.
an event like this waves a white flag at future growth and expects a devout core to prop up their failing business.
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I guess I will be watching Assembly instead! :D
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i dont know if anybody has posted this or not, but this is an important thing to read over
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html
this basically states that any video that has a premium version, needs to have a free version or something along those lines which in my mind means that they cant actually do this. It makes sense that GSL has a lq stream always.
I dont think it is worth it to pay 20 bucks, i can watch assembly, where there are many great players that i am personally looking forward to, and i can watch the MLG the week after, because they have a really nice VOD system.
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On February 14 2012 09:44 mark05 wrote:
I'm not against paying for sutff, but the way the deal is made is not worth it, i mean for that amount you could get 2season of gsl.
Also, a"20 hour limit" would be scaring me, i mean i watch A LOT of starcraft, i don't want to "save up" my hours of watching to not run out of time to see the finals... this is a badly taught system.
I love mlg, and would support them with some kind of passes, but this, no
Try again.
Also, I want to say tat this time I don't feel the NEED to buy it since it's assembly at the same time, makes things easier 
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On February 14 2012 09:56 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:50 pollisand wrote:On February 14 2012 09:43 chestnutcc wrote:On February 14 2012 09:41 Klonere wrote:On February 14 2012 09:40 Boblhead wrote:On February 14 2012 09:36 leecH wrote:http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.htmlLimitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Regarding Websites and "Premium Access"
We understand that many third party websites have a "free" method to see their video content, as well as a 'premium' membership service that allows for speedier viewing.
For clarity, please note that as long as the website that hosts your Production provides a free method to allow viewers to see the Production, Blizzard Entertainment will not object to your Production being hosted on that site, regardless of the site's "for pay" premium service plans. so MLG pays Blizzard a fee so they can do this? Can someone explain please? ;/ THIS, will MLG will be violating Blizzards terms, which will most likely cause a lawsuit against MLG. That being said MLG has to offer a free stream. Why didn't Blizzard take action against GOM re: the AOL, which was PPV only? Its because they work it out with Blizzard to get exceptions. But GOM provides a free live stream no? Correct. I believe every GSL event so far has had a free stream. yeah. they do the very minimum they have to according to the videopolicy. MLG would be the first tournament that actually denies you any content unless you pay, right? so they are the first to violate the videopolicy. this either means blizzard changed their policy or MLG made an exclusive deal with blizzard? which is odd because i thought GSL kind of was in bed with blizzard.. wtf am i missing here? and why dont more ppl pay attention to this.
I actually brought this up pages ago. Not sure what the official reaction is. Could be the free vods released one week later fit the bill or MLG has worked out a special deal with Blizzard.
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On February 14 2012 09:54 disciple wrote:
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life.
So much gold in this post.
When i think of starcraft or MLG I won't think of them being so nice as to spend 100k on an event flying players around, but rather the epic matches, the storylines between players, the hype, the style of the event and the community feel.
I'm honestly not happy where the money is going as well, I honestly think the casters are getting enough money as it is from said events and I really don't think its necessary to fly players to a place like NY for an event, if MLG wants my $20 for 3 days of content then they should be hyping to the point where I can't miss it.
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Oh come one everybody with a brain should figure out they are going to change the price to 15$ or maybe even 10$ before the event. Everything would be fine but the "up and coming casters" is the prt that worries me. No tastosis = no moneyz from me.
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On February 14 2012 09:54 disciple wrote:
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life.
TSL3 is an entirely different thing, and you know that too. MLG is a league with one of the main selling points being live events.
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Are there going to be any ads? I don't see anything about it in the post.
If so, I'm pretty apprehensive about paying to watch the usual level of them.
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so sad was looking forward to this mlg
i think 5 dollars or even 10 would have been more reasonable,oh well at least i still have gsl =)
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EPT
