EPTMLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 219
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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit. Bans will be handed out. Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
On February 26 2012 00:31 ntssauce wrote: you could also say: I'm unemployed and waste my time watching sc2 instead of searching for a job!!!! I would hate you if you were from germany, cause all the working people pay for people like you that get money from the country. there are other reasons for being unemployed than being lazy you know? you have no idea ... (1)how long he has been unemployed (2) how hard he tries to get a job (3) how long he worked before and "earned" his unemployement aid There is nothing wrong with spending a weekend watching sports, even if you are unemployed. Searching for a job doesnt take 24 h/day especially not on weekends. But yeah go ahead and hate on someone you dont know without any reason! disgusting. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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PR4Y
United States260 Posts
Stream viewer numbers on MLG's stream any1? | ||
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
On February 26 2012 01:35 Fallout wrote: Where is all the major tournaments going out of business? All I see is them growing more successful. So you think SC2 would have been this big if all major tournaments was ppv? Come on? You dont think free streams helps getting more non-players to watch? More followers will make SC survive longer, not less followers and more money. How is ppv gonna make sc permanent if only 10k follow in while for exampel dota games and free streams draws more than 100k? The few occasions where any "insider" posts realistic information it looks bleak (see TotalBiscuit and FXOBoss). There is no tangible example of a major tournament growing more successful - viewer counts are not an indication of monetary success, and increased budgets are also not an indication of monetary success in the short term. SC has grown exponentially within the past *year* and the sprouting up of new leagues with large investments is consistent with the sort of hype/no follow through you can expect from an advertising based business model. If a true esports tournament promoter can't at the very least break even, then there's no esports for anyone to watch at all. Of course if you tell 100 random people off the street to look at your iphone and watch 5 minutes of this cool new things called MLG, a lot more will say yes than if you charged them a dollar for it. However, what you're trying to do is convert normals into fans, not normals into people who click on the stream once and watch for five minutes before losing interest. Suggesting that free streams are better than pay streams does not necessarily mean that the difference is substantial (it's also not necessarily true -- for example, someone who paid $20 is much more likely to watch more of the tournament, report that they enjoyed the tournament, tell their friends about it, etc. it's a psychological principle that we hold little value for things that are free, and more value for things we pay for, this principle is so widespread that even in studies medication reported as being expensive works better on illness than medication reported as being inexpensive even if the pills are the same). No one is certain how you grow an esports fan base. The only model you can look at is any sport that has come from obscurity/nonexistence to professional within the past couple decades. The UFC comes to mind and not only was it solely PPV for its entire incubation, but Barcrafts are probably doing pretty well compared to UFC's public viewing distribution was pre-TUF, UFC had a smaller participatory base (people that would enjoy it because they also practiced martial arts), no free related content available (we have smaller tournaments which will never go PPV and livestreams). LoL/DOTA games crazy high viewer counts is a classic example for why advertising and viewer #s are not the only things necessary to make true competitive esports happen. | ||
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Stubentiger
48 Posts
Nothing against a "Winter Arena Event! once a year but the wording with winter (4 seasons) makes me think they want 4 a year .... | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Anyway, the games have been great thus far. However they're still having problems with the stream. -_- | ||
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Muffel
Germany137 Posts
On February 26 2012 01:42 Serelitz wrote: Not every event will be PPV, this is just for sustainability so they don't have to rely on sponsors to go with the hype. Look at what happened to CS as an e-sport, look at WSVG, there have been PLENTY of e-sport companies that have gone out of business because they were making a loss. FXO boss has blogged about how FXO makes a loss. MLG has stated that they run a loss. E-sports isn't sustainable without a PPV business model (or something else that makes a lot of money). Relying on sponsors hasn't worked in the past. plz tell me what happened to CS im realy interested how PPV wouldve rescued CS. how are you so sure there is no other model then PPV sustainable? because sundance said so? they made many mistakes last year.. biggest one was that everyone could mlg silver for free if he goes on facebooks hot pocket page. sundance said himself they made a crucial mistake there. this whole "support esports, else it DIES" campaign by sundance was brilliant. have to admit that. | ||
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Fallout
Sweden54 Posts
On February 26 2012 01:42 Serelitz wrote: Not every event will be PPV, this is just for sustainability so they don't have to rely on sponsors to go with the hype. Look at what happened to CS as an e-sport, look at WSVG, there have been PLENTY of e-sport companies that have gone out of business because they were making a loss. FXO boss has blogged about how FXO makes a loss. MLG has stated that they run a loss. E-sports isn't sustainable without a PPV business model (or something else that makes a lot of money). Relying on sponsors hasn't worked in the past. If this was to be successful for mlg, why should not all the others do the same? Why should IPL, dreamhack, assembly get the same opportunity? And that would not affect the viewers? Maybe FXO and mlg is running a bad model i´f they are making losses? I haven't heard EG complaining or mouz or gsl. And cs? Why are you throwing such a bad example? Whys is cs dying? Because of money, or is it cuz it's getting old and followers are dropping and new games take it's place? esports is improving if you have missed it. Not because there is so much money, but cuz it's out there for everyone. | ||
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UrielSC
Canada143 Posts
I can't wait for today | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On February 26 2012 01:56 Fallout wrote: If this was to be successful for mlg, why should not all the others do the same? Why should IPL, dreamhack, assembly get the same opportunity? And that would not affect the viewers? Maybe FXO and mlg is running a bad model i´f they are making losses? I haven't heard EG complaining or mouz or gsl. And cs? Why are you throwing such a bad example? Whys is cs dying? Because of money, or is it cuz it's getting old and followers are dropping and new games take it's place? esports is improving if you have missed it. Not because there is so much money, but cuz it's out there for everyone. CS died because sponsors left. Just because not every business is making their numbers public doesn't mean every business is doing well. If SC2 relies on just sponsors/ads it will die out just like CS eventually. MLG is also not making all their events PPV. There'll always be free events, just like there are daily events vs weekly vs yearly events. | ||
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smwatkin
Canada399 Posts
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Stubentiger
48 Posts
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JBrown08
Canada306 Posts
On February 26 2012 01:53 Stubentiger wrote: Personally, I enjoyed 'Home Story Cup' with the closer personal atmosphere more than the 'soul less' MLG corporate event. Nothing against a "Winter Arena Event! once a year but the wording with winter (4 seasons) makes me think they want 4 a year .... There are 4 arena events a year.......that you will have to pay $20 for each time.... | ||
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Me1234
Germany219 Posts
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
On February 26 2012 02:03 Stubentiger wrote: Didn't CS die just because it was an old game? Then why do you think BW lived so long? Because of huge korean sponsors backing teams. Sponsors back out means the teams disband. The same happened for CS, the same happened for a lot of major leagues like CSL, WSVG etc. edit: still can't buy the PPV with paypal, I get a creditcard pop-up but it says I'm a verified member. Fuck this, seriously. | ||
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Stubentiger
48 Posts
Thing is computer games survive longer because of 'unproven' factors. Like WOW worldwide, broodwar was/is a phenomenon in Korea and no one really knows how to reproduce it. Blizzard tries with SC2 - They make (at least) 2 expansions, keeping the game in shops for years for consumers to see. This might keep the game fresh, but no gurantee. I still think MLG Arena tries to 'cash in' though. | ||
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
On February 26 2012 02:09 Serelitz wrote: Then why do you think BW lived so long? Because of huge korean sponsors backing teams. Sponsors back out means the teams disband. The same happened for CS, the same happened for a lot of major leagues like CSL, WSVG etc. edit: still can't buy the PPV with paypal, I get a creditcard pop-up but it says I'm a verified member. Fuck this, seriously. Maybe you haven't used it that much and thus don't know, but Paypal is a giant steaming pile of shit and you're lucky if it ever works. Welcome to the club. Sorry. Also: sponsors backing out is not as big of an issue as sponsors moving to similar alternatives. Sponsors stopping CS tournaments and sponsoring other FPS tournaments is critical, because the hungry players are capable of moving on to the game that is getting paid. The foreign BW scene was crushed the second SC2Beta came out even though there was barely any money in it to begin with because there was money in SC2. The only vital thing to an esport is competition. Even if few people care and there's little money, people will still scrape together tournaments with whatever funds and people are available for the sake of the sport. However, when players can move on to a different game and find sponsors/money there, they'll leave and the competition evaporates. | ||
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