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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 26 2012 00:51 MLQ10 wrote:
I thought we were over with all the complaining about PPV. It's very simple, if you can afford it than buy, if not that's fine just stop complaining. I personally had an awesome day yesterday, I had no problem whatsoever with the streams. The layout is awesome and I never miss any action, for me at least, it was worth the $20.
Why do u assume it's all about the money? For some of us it's about esport. I want esport to be mainstream, like in south korea. For that to happen we need more viewers and bigger acceptance. So shutting down 90k viewers (mainstreamers who dont like to pay because they are not willing to spend 30 hours on starcraft on one single weekend) so that 10k can get a better experience, you think this is the right way to go? I have no problem with the money, maybe students or people in poorer countries have... but for me it's the growth of the e-sport.
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On February 26 2012 00:28 ceaRshaf wrote:
Wow, you are such a hero. It's about the principle of a high price on a market that doesn't charge that much for anything.
esports/Starcraft is not a stable market. PPV has never been tried before. Every western, advertising based league in the past decade has eventually failed. While these days we have streaming video & popularity like never before, there is still no example of a long term sustainable model anywhere in the industry.
Your suggestion that it's ludicrous for MLG to charge $20 for something everyone else is giving away for free is a really poor interpretation/application of the concept.
Also, I stated it before but I'll state it again: in general, $20 is completely insignificant compared to the decision to spend hours on hours (this weekend has what, 30 hours of content?) on one activity for anyone who has adult responsibilities. That's time not spent working, in school, with family, taking care of your house, etc. If you are actually going to park yourself on your couch and commit to watching just 8 hours this weekend, that's a huge time investment that far exceeds whether or not you decide to spend another $20 on top of it. If you are poor, your time means nothing, and love Starcraft, $20 is tremendous value in entertainment at less than a dollar an hour, it just so happens that value is beaten by watching livestreams or other tournaments for free if you don't value all that MLG has to offer. In reality, the only people who can't pay $20 are the people who literally *can't* pay $20 -- they don't have a payment method MLG can accept. Other than that, $20 just isn't worth it to you, so that's cool. Some people will leave a tournament on for 8 hours in the background but barely watch any of it. Nothing wrong with refusing to pay $20 for that.
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On February 26 2012 00:31 ntssauce wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 00:24 Ashenshugar wrote:
Just an fyi, I'm unemployed, in a tight spot where I have to move & get a job so I can get any money (don't have an income) but I still were able to spend 20$ for e-sports & also for nick and dan.
Your excuses? I just invalidated them.
you could also say: I'm unemployed and waste my time watching sc2 instead of searching for a job!!!! I would hate you if you were from germany, cause all the working people pay for people like you that get money from the country.
Weekends night is the right time to search for a job. I bet a lot of companies will welcome your call at that time!
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Might have shelled out if the time slot was not so messed up for me. Like mentioned before, starting it 2 hours earlier would have been very helpful to us GMT+1 Euros.
Somehow was able to watch a few matches, did like what I saw. I'll gladly wait for the VODs, due to the time slot 
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Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating.
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On February 26 2012 01:03 Fallout wrote:
Why do u assume it's all about the money? For some of us it's about esport. I want esport to be mainstream, like in south korea. For that to happen we need more viewers and bigger acceptance. So shutting down 90k viewers (mainstreamers who dont like to pay because they are not willing to spend 30 hours on starcraft on one single weekend) so that 10k can get a better experience, you thing this is the right way to go? I have no problem with the money, maybe students of folks in poorer countries have... but for me it's the growth of the e-sport.
There is too much free esports content to watch. More doesn't help anything. Every major tournament going out of business certainly hurts. Quality and sustainability is important now. If you want to watch high level starcraft, there is free shit to watch every single day and hundreds of hours of vods from the past few months available. If anything, premier tournaments setting themselves apart is a bigger deal now in the sea of sc content.
I don't see how a free MLG brings us more esports fans. I'd expect a normal invited to a viewing party or a Barcraft (all of which become more valuable in a PPV environment) far more valuable as a potential convert than trying to fight for the market of nerds desperate for a free way to cure their boredom. Also, before you wish for esports to be mainstream, start wishing for esports to be permanent. We don't have that yet.
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On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating.
thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult).
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On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating.
I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either.
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On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult).
It's not even that I don't have Paypal, it's just that paypal prompts me for a creditcard as well. iDeal or direct debit would work too.
On February 26 2012 01:22 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either.
How exactly? I click on 'pay with paypal', log in, and paypal prompts me to connect a credit card to my account or to cancel.
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On February 26 2012 01:22 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult). It's not even that I don't have Paypal, it's just that paypal prompts me for a creditcard as well. iDeal or direct debit would work too. Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:22 Logros wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either. How exactly? I click on 'pay with paypal', log in, and paypal prompts me to connect a credit card to my account or to cancel.
I clicked that as well, logged in and just managed to pay normally. I didn't get any prompt for a credit card. Dunno why it's not working for you.
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With no nuclear holocaust in sight destroying all electronical equipment, I think e sports will be hard to kill.
Imagine 50 years ago no one really thought thousands of people all over the world would communicateat the same time with each other... and now e sports may die, because big business in esports is not sustainable?
And for streams being free, I think that will change when and if they have the right business model for it, but that time might not be now.
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On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:
thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult).
In all fairness, setting up merchant accounts is very difficult, especially in other countries, and worldwide payment methods are still in the stone age (just the US is more behind than others).
However, for justin.tv and MLG this is quite ridiculous that they don't even list Moneybookers as an option considering its popularity across all of Europe and the fact that it's well known enough to most internet savvy Americans. Only punishes themselves. EU SC fans should get together and tweet-bomb Sundance or TwitchTV.
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On February 26 2012 01:25 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:22 Serelitz wrote:On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult). It's not even that I don't have Paypal, it's just that paypal prompts me for a creditcard as well. iDeal or direct debit would work too. On February 26 2012 01:22 Logros wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either. How exactly? I click on 'pay with paypal', log in, and paypal prompts me to connect a credit card to my account or to cancel. I clicked that as well, logged in and just managed to pay normally. I didn't get any prompt for a credit card. Dunno why it's not working for you.
http://i.imgur.com/azgPN.png
This is the pop-up it prompts me when I log in on the paypal pop-up.
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Is your paypal account linked to withdraw money directly from your bank account?
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On February 26 2012 01:19 mockturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:03 Fallout wrote:
Why do u assume it's all about the money? For some of us it's about esport. I want esport to be mainstream, like in south korea. For that to happen we need more viewers and bigger acceptance. So shutting down 90k viewers (mainstreamers who dont like to pay because they are not willing to spend 30 hours on starcraft on one single weekend) so that 10k can get a better experience, you thing this is the right way to go? I have no problem with the money, maybe students of folks in poorer countries have... but for me it's the growth of the e-sport. There is too much free esports content to watch. More doesn't help anything. Every major tournament going out of business certainly hurts. Quality and sustainability is important now. If you want to watch high level starcraft, there is free shit to watch every single day and hundreds of hours of vods from the past few months available. If anything, premier tournaments setting themselves apart is a bigger deal now in the sea of sc content. I don't see how a free MLG brings us more esports fans. I'd expect a normal invited to a viewing party or a Barcraft (all of which become more valuable in a PPV environment) far more valuable as a potential convert than trying to fight for the market of nerds desperate for a free way to cure their boredom. Also, before you wish for esports to be mainstream, start wishing for esports to be permanent. We don't have that yet.
Where is all the major tournaments going out of business? All I see is them growing more successful.
So you think SC2 would have been this big if all major tournaments was ppv? Come on? You dont think free streams helps getting more non-players to watch?
More followers will make SC survive longer, not less followers and more money. How is ppv gonna make sc permanent if only 10k follow in while for exampel dota games and free streams draws more than 100k?
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On February 26 2012 01:25 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:22 Serelitz wrote:On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult). It's not even that I don't have Paypal, it's just that paypal prompts me for a creditcard as well. iDeal or direct debit would work too. On February 26 2012 01:22 Logros wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either. How exactly? I click on 'pay with paypal', log in, and paypal prompts me to connect a credit card to my account or to cancel. I clicked that as well, logged in and just managed to pay normally. I didn't get any prompt for a credit card. Dunno why it's not working for you.
There is a way to pay for through paypal without logging in. Even if you have an account and use the same email address, you can pay for the stream with a credit/debit card without logging in. This is how I pay for GOM everytime I pay for it. I never log into my paypal account.
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On February 26 2012 01:27 Stubentiger wrote:
With no nuclear holocaust in sight destroying all electronical equipment, I think e sports will be hard to kill.
Imagine 50 years ago no one really thought thousands of people all over the world would communicateat the same time with each other... and now e sports may die, because big business in esports is not sustainable?
And for streams being free, I think that will change when and if they have the right business model for it, but that time might not be now.
esports won't die, clearly, but it will move back towards being a spectacle (think "The Wizard" with fred savage) rather than true competition -- think american gladiators rather than professional tennis. your passion for videogames at large must be pretty huge if you look forward to an esports scene that revolves around a bunch of people competing for a huge one-time prize in a game they've barely played before packing up and moving on to the next game (like the rotating games in WCG that took up like half the schedule)
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On February 26 2012 01:33 Elurie wrote:
Is your paypal account linked to withdraw money directly from your bank account?
yes, http://i.imgur.com/nIls7.png cropped image for proof. Sorry about the dutch but that's just the settings.
On February 26 2012 01:35 zachMEISTER wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2012 01:25 Logros wrote:On February 26 2012 01:22 Serelitz wrote:On February 26 2012 01:20 arkedos wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. thats typical for americans. they tend to forget that everywhere outside of america not every 15 year old child has a credit card. on payment methods the USA is still a bit in the stone age (no I am not meaning this as an insult). It's not even that I don't have Paypal, it's just that paypal prompts me for a creditcard as well. iDeal or direct debit would work too. On February 26 2012 01:22 Logros wrote:On February 26 2012 01:14 Serelitz wrote:
Was going to buy it but I don't have a credit card. Apparently Paypal only works with a creditcard to pay this as well, kinda frustrating. I payed for this fine with my bankaccount via Paypal, I don't have a cc either. How exactly? I click on 'pay with paypal', log in, and paypal prompts me to connect a credit card to my account or to cancel. I clicked that as well, logged in and just managed to pay normally. I didn't get any prompt for a credit card. Dunno why it's not working for you. There is a way to pay for through paypal without logging in. Even if you have an account and use the same email address, you can pay for the stream with a credit/debit card without logging in. This is how I pay for GOM everytime I pay for it. I never log into my paypal account.
And as I said, I don't own a credit card or a debit card. I looked it up and apparently I don't own a debit card but just about nobody does in the netherlands.
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Here in sweden major newspapers and tv-stations streams some of the bigger events like dreamhack etc. because it generates viewers. If this would be ppv. this would not be possible and thousands of people will miss it out. I fail to see how this is gonna make e-sports bigger.
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On February 26 2012 01:40 Fallout wrote:
Here in sweden major newspapers and tv-stations streams some of the bigger events like dreamhack etc. because it generates viewers. If this would be ppv. this would not be possible and thousands of people will miss it out. I fail to see how this is gonna make e-sports bigger.
Not every event will be PPV, this is just for sustainability so they don't have to rely on sponsors to go with the hype. Look at what happened to CS as an e-sport, look at WSVG, there have been PLENTY of e-sport companies that have gone out of business because they were making a loss. FXO boss has blogged about how FXO makes a loss. MLG has stated that they run a loss. E-sports isn't sustainable without a PPV business model (or something else that makes a lot of money). Relying on sponsors hasn't worked in the past.
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EPT
