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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
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On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free.
It all adds up with every purchase.
The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap.
Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog.
There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out.
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On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much.
The "self-sustaining" argument is complete bullshit. There are tons of TV stations and other enterprises who work fantastically based on ads/sponsors.
Why is that not self-sustaining?
Ad-revenue is as unreliable as number of sucscribers.
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On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out.
It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price.
I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage.
I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted.
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On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay.
No, no, no, a million times, no.
Nobody decided to fly and house 32 players from across the world, other than MLG. Nobody made the 1 year gold price tag for a YEARS worth of content, other than MLG. If it wasn't feasible to do the additional content on the budget they had, or the memberships they sold, THEY FUCKED UP. It's not the consumers fault and to reneg on your agreements because the package guy had 'bad math' (literally what sundance said), that is MLG's problem.
You don't shit in the hands of those who were willing to pay up based on your promises (empty).
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On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much.
Every TV show and Sports event and stream you watch follows the model of freemium (exception of UFC). Why should MLG be able to switch the format and why do they have to? I don't think they have to switch their current model, but they are instead attempting to cash out even more on what looks to be one of the best events since SC2 released. You are right it is only $20, but to be honest in reality I pay nothing for the super bowl. Sure I pay my cable and internet bill and can watch either way, but with paying that bill I have access to everything those two provide for a whole month meaning that one isolated item (super bowl) isn't even worth a single cent of my bill. Instead the NFL and the cable company do things smartly and don't misuse their funds as MLG has.
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On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much.
Only $20? Thats potentially four meals I could have that I am spending on a tournament that I MIGHT watch for a total of 5-10 hours over the span of three days. It is not worth it to spend that much money when there is a free alternative and when you're on a budget.
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On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay.
I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments.
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On February 16 2012 04:48 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. Your point is bad, then. MLG can still introduce new PPV content without turning every single gold subscriber against them; they simply have to start charging PPV to people who haven't paid up front.
I am guessing that there are more viewers of MLG who are not gold than who are. If they gave this event out to all of the gold members than all of the silver and non members would be in an uproar that we have to pay this much for an event that gold members are paying less than $3 for. They would piss off more people that way.
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well i feel sorry for people who bought gold and believed that they could watch winter arena...
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not a good idea by MLG, and I will not be purchasing any mlg pass cause of this.
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On February 16 2012 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments.
That might be the case and then they wont pay. That could be a good thing. In the end though, I think you, myself and most of the hardcore fans are going to be paying for our SC2 content.
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Dont make me chose between events. MLG has had a great product in 2011, despite their extended series rule *cough*, and i would like to support every production, but in truth, it wont happen.
Incidentally, this made me buy a GSL ticket.
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On February 16 2012 04:57 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Every TV show and Sports event and stream you watch follows the model of freemium (exception of UFC). Why should MLG be able to switch the format and why do they have to? I don't think they have to switch their current model, but they are instead attempting to cash out even more on what looks to be one of the best events since SC2 released. You are right it is only $20, but to be honest in reality I pay nothing for the super bowl. Sure I pay my cable and internet bill and can watch either way, but with paying that bill I have access to everything those two provide for a whole month meaning that one isolated item (super bowl) isn't even worth a single cent of my bill. Instead the NFL and the cable company do things smartly and don't misuse their funds as MLG has.
when MLG can sell their broadcasting rights for billions of dollars, we can talk about the NFL comparison. But MLG can't really even get on tv right now.
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I will not be purchasing the MLG winter arena pass.
In the gamer world, I'm what they call a casual gamer. I play the game, but will not spend more money than I have to to enjoy the services it provides. I do not have any hardcore facts, but i assume most gamers fall into this category (Using Blizzards "Easy to play, Hard to master game philosophy as of late).
I'm not a business man, but to me this is a step in the wrong direction and I certainly will not be supporting any PPVs now or in the future. Not only would I have to spend $20, I would have to spend those three days doing nothing productive so that I get my money worth. To me, the opportunity cost is far superior. (I hope I used that term correctly)
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On February 16 2012 05:02 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments. That might be the case and then they wont pay. That could be a good thing. In the end though, I think you, myself and most of the hardcore fans are going to be paying for our SC2 content.
I used to have the charity mentality about SC2. "MLG needs my money so esports will survive!" Except now, when I give them my money, they can't give me the product that they promised. I'm going to be taking my dollars elsewhere.
This is a good chance for NASL to scoop up some people.
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On February 16 2012 05:09 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:02 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments. That might be the case and then they wont pay. That could be a good thing. In the end though, I think you, myself and most of the hardcore fans are going to be paying for our SC2 content. I used to have the charity mentality about SC2. "MLG needs my money so esports will survive!" Except now, when I give them my money, they can't give me the product that they promised. I'm going to be taking my dollars elsewhere. This is a good chance for NASL to scoop up some people.
My point is that the GSL is already doing it, MLG is joining ship and I do not think it will be too long before the other big organizers join up too. As many sources in the industry have stated, there needs to be a new way to increase revenue other than advertising. And as of right now, charging customers more seems like the best answer. Hopefully they come up with a better solution but I personally do not think they will.
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Can we just.. have a tournament council that agrees to set a universal low fee?
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On February 16 2012 05:12 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:09 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 05:02 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments. That might be the case and then they wont pay. That could be a good thing. In the end though, I think you, myself and most of the hardcore fans are going to be paying for our SC2 content. I used to have the charity mentality about SC2. "MLG needs my money so esports will survive!" Except now, when I give them my money, they can't give me the product that they promised. I'm going to be taking my dollars elsewhere. This is a good chance for NASL to scoop up some people. My point is that the GSL is already doing it, MLG is joining ship and I do not think it will be too long before the other big organizers join up too. As many sources in the industry have stated, there needs to be a new way to increase revenue other than advertising. And as of right now, charging customers more seems like the best answer. Hopefully they come up with a better solution but I personally do not think they will.
My issue is not that they're charging more. My issue is that they changed the price of a product I've already bought.
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On February 16 2012 05:12 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:09 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 05:02 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:44 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:43 Klondikebar wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much. Yeah, we swung that much when we paid for the Gold membership already. Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. No, but we should reasonably be able to expect that when we pay for "access to all content" that's what we'll be receiving. If MLG needs to up their fee they can do so when it's time for us to renew. Not suddenly charge for something for which we've already paid. That is my point. Then we would have to wait almost an entire year for MLG to put out extra tournaments. It is not feasible for them to have these without increasing the price. If we want these tournaments now then we have to pay. I think what you're going to find is that most people don't want these tournaments. That might be the case and then they wont pay. That could be a good thing. In the end though, I think you, myself and most of the hardcore fans are going to be paying for our SC2 content. I used to have the charity mentality about SC2. "MLG needs my money so esports will survive!" Except now, when I give them my money, they can't give me the product that they promised. I'm going to be taking my dollars elsewhere. This is a good chance for NASL to scoop up some people. My point is that the GSL is already doing it, MLG is joining ship and I do not think it will be too long before the other big organizers join up too. As many sources in the industry have stated, there needs to be a new way to increase revenue other than advertising. And as of right now, charging customers more seems like the best answer. Hopefully they come up with a better solution but I personally do not think they will.
Well here's some food for thought, if your average SC2 fan has to pay say, 300 dollars a year to watch starcraft, how many will actually watch? It's basically going to kill any hope of turning the esport mainstream and eventually people just will stop paying, it's a temporary solution at best unless they really for some reason believe people will stay interested for such a long time
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On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted.
No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._.
Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one.
If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else.
MLG is in the business to make money; not break even.
I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers.
Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible.
I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better.
Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure.
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EPT
