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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will.
Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$
75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay
For MLG arena its 1$ per hour.
Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway.
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On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway.
I guess if they decide to include qualifiers in there deal it could go up to 120+ hours of content.
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On February 16 2012 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:28 Escape wrote:
Just want to remind everyone that you pay about 2x as much for PPV events like UFC, and it's only for 1 evening.
You get 3 solid evenings of matches for only $20 here with MLG. Yes, I know, you may not think the quality is as comparable, but at least it's cheaper and for more.
I think we should see how good their content is be before we judge.
Go check out how well UFC PPV was doing in it's second year in existence. Guess what? Not that well. In fact they were going bankrupt and it wasn't until Zuffa and Dana White got involved that UFC started to pick up some traction. The true explosion was the Ultimate Fighter on FX which basically provided people "free"(as long as you had cable/satellite aka no extra PPV cost) UFC fights to the masses. That first Ultimate Fighter picked up a fuck ton of fans mainly due to the Finale with Griffin vs Bonnar. It was completely amazing and UFC lucked out with that being broadcasted to the masses. SC2 has no blood, SC2 has no violence, SC2 has no sex, also the format doesn't lend itself for a PPV atmosphere. UFC succeeds because it's a show of the best fighters the sport can bring in a 3-4 hour window TOPS. UFC wouldn't get anywhere near as many PPV buys if it was over a 3 day event because that crowd doesn't have the time to waste over 3 days. Also it would dilute the hell out of the product when UFC is all about only asking for money for the absolute best matches. Even now when a card isn't the strongest they'll throw it on FX for free or FUEL since they've cut deals with them. This MLG PPV will succeed in the short term because of the gullibility of the community by MLG equating themselves making money with the growth of "eSports". Long term, they're fucked unless they become a monopoly through exclusivity deals with popular teams/players since they have PPV money and thus being able to hold more events with more prize money. People need to ask themselves how much SC2 are you prepared to pay for before you just say fuck it and move onto something else. How much are you prepared to take on to make sure a business like MLG who has been in the red for the past 10 years and is now banking on you to give them money to make sure they are profitable. Not my responsibility, I'd rather give my money to Shoutcraft and eventually grow that incrementally. At least then I don't have to deal with Extended Series.
Man .... Your point justifies the PPV. LOL.
People had to pay before to watch BroodWar , before E-sport was even Popular.... Then connection got better, Internet Revenue from ads sky rocketed and Online Streaming web site became profitable for the owners so they can provide a free product with their ads revenue... They just HELPED the community to grow and to know about the game... Now that people know, the real fans are willing to pay...and from there we can continue to build for the futur.
Boom baby!
MLG is the biggest name in e-Sport event... And it's just the beggining
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On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway.
If you watch the VODs then you are paying $0 for close to 80 (probably more like 60-70) hours of content. I personally only watch GSL VODs and I am paying the same amount as you.
For the live customer they are running 4 streams at 20 hours or so each. So it is probably less than $1 an hour when you figure in the multistreaming. If you add in the free stuff they gave us in the qualifiers for this tournament, which I'm guessing is like 40-50 hours, then we are getting even cheaper. Not bad in my book.
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If MLG wants to enter a direct competition with GSL for high quality payed services, thats a business decision. But dont impose on me, the fan, this charity attitude of "support us or you are hurting e-sports", because a PPV model already derogates growth by cuts in viewership & accessibility.
I would have watched MLG, as i did throughout 2011, because it is a quality production. But as european you have to have a circadian rhythm which resembles more that of a vampire, to get your moneys worth. And even if this were not the case, if beeing forced to choose where to put my money, the reasonable decision for me would still be the GSL.
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On February 16 2012 06:35 r0flmao wrote:
If MLG wants to enter a direct competition with GSL for high quality payed services, thats a business decision. But dont impose on me, the fan, this charity attitude of "support us or you are hurting e-sports", because a PPV model already derogates growth by cuts in viewership & accessibility.
I would have watched MLG, as i did throughout 2011, because it is a quality production. But as european you have to have a circadian rhythm which resembles more that of a vampire, to get your moneys worth. And even if this were not the case, if beeing forced to choose where to put my money, the reasonable decision for me would still be the GSL.
I totally agree with you.
Bye MLG, if you fall others will take your place.
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On February 16 2012 06:17 nucky wrote:
Take a minute of your life and read this :
I just paid more last month to upgrade the bandwitch of my internet so i can watch more Streaming.... Looks like i will have to pay more again to enjoy it. But hey! That's the only chance we have to bring e-sport on a whole new scale and it's good for Both Assembly and MLG.
This will be benefit for Assembly (around 25k viewers) who will gain new subscribers/viewers from MLG (hit 85k viewers last year)so they will gain extra income from web ads.
This will allow Assembly to grow, and TBH MLG > Assemblyx100 in term of profesionnalism.
In the other hand, If 1 subscriber for $20 generates as much money as 2000 viewers.... I mean, why not? People are gonna pay for this to support e-sport if they wanna see someday their favorite pro gamers making a living from the game they always loved.
We cant deny this any longer ; Koreans flooded and owned the sc2 foreign market.. We need bigger Prizes pool in order to catch up... So maybe our best foreigners will be more devoted to the game knowing that you can make a living from it. It will even bring new progamers in the scene, you know... the real brains who actually had the choice to become Doctor but instead became a Pro Gamer ... That would be totaly sick and it would bring the game to a new level.
This was my optimistic thoughts of the day for a best sc2 scene.
I took the minute  .
Why do we need bigger prizepools to catch up with Koreans? The main prizes at MLG and Assembly will most likely been taken by Koreans. Prizepools are constantly growing since beta. I don't really see a concern.
We need esports to grow, generate more viewers. This will not be achieved by an "only PPV".
If I want to spend 20$ to help esports, MLG is the worst investment. MLG already fucked up long before SC2. We are just paying their debts.
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On February 16 2012 04:19 shankems2000 wrote:
As InControl or Pain user said on sotg last night, they're trying to make it a self sustaining business. Meaning relying not on sponsors but on revenue from viewers and lovers of e-sports. It's only $20 bucks. Even you starving college kids can swing that much.
exactly a BUSINESS, i dont see mcdonalds telling me im hurting fast food when i refuse to pay their prices.
if people like mlg (or anyone defending them with emotional arguments) want to be taken seriously they cant start from a position of mlg deserve money and then your a bad guy for not paying.
mlg need to entice people in, rather than 'promise' it will be worth it. i paid for gold last season and then even through all the problems i didnt complain, but with that in mind im not gonna blindly follow them again into a new venture when they no have a history of over promising what they can deliver.
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On February 16 2012 06:38 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:35 r0flmao wrote:
If MLG wants to enter a direct competition with GSL for high quality payed services, thats a business decision. But dont impose on me, the fan, this charity attitude of "support us or you are hurting e-sports", because a PPV model already derogates growth by cuts in viewership & accessibility.
I would have watched MLG, as i did throughout 2011, because it is a quality production. But as european you have to have a circadian rhythm which resembles more that of a vampire, to get your moneys worth. And even if this were not the case, if beeing forced to choose where to put my money, the reasonable decision for me would still be the GSL. I totally agree with you. Bye MLG, if you fall others will take your place.
Yes they will the same thing for the same price or even more in order to actually have a shot at a profit.
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On February 16 2012 06:32 nucky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:On February 16 2012 04:28 Escape wrote:
Just want to remind everyone that you pay about 2x as much for PPV events like UFC, and it's only for 1 evening.
You get 3 solid evenings of matches for only $20 here with MLG. Yes, I know, you may not think the quality is as comparable, but at least it's cheaper and for more.
I think we should see how good their content is be before we judge.
Go check out how well UFC PPV was doing in it's second year in existence. Guess what? Not that well. In fact they were going bankrupt and it wasn't until Zuffa and Dana White got involved that UFC started to pick up some traction. The true explosion was the Ultimate Fighter on FX which basically provided people "free"(as long as you had cable/satellite aka no extra PPV cost) UFC fights to the masses. That first Ultimate Fighter picked up a fuck ton of fans mainly due to the Finale with Griffin vs Bonnar. It was completely amazing and UFC lucked out with that being broadcasted to the masses. SC2 has no blood, SC2 has no violence, SC2 has no sex, also the format doesn't lend itself for a PPV atmosphere. UFC succeeds because it's a show of the best fighters the sport can bring in a 3-4 hour window TOPS. UFC wouldn't get anywhere near as many PPV buys if it was over a 3 day event because that crowd doesn't have the time to waste over 3 days. Also it would dilute the hell out of the product when UFC is all about only asking for money for the absolute best matches. Even now when a card isn't the strongest they'll throw it on FX for free or FUEL since they've cut deals with them. This MLG PPV will succeed in the short term because of the gullibility of the community by MLG equating themselves making money with the growth of "eSports". Long term, they're fucked unless they become a monopoly through exclusivity deals with popular teams/players since they have PPV money and thus being able to hold more events with more prize money. People need to ask themselves how much SC2 are you prepared to pay for before you just say fuck it and move onto something else. How much are you prepared to take on to make sure a business like MLG who has been in the red for the past 10 years and is now banking on you to give them money to make sure they are profitable. Not my responsibility, I'd rather give my money to Shoutcraft and eventually grow that incrementally. At least then I don't have to deal with Extended Series. Man .... Your point justifies the PPV. LOL. People had to pay before to watch BroodWar , before E-sport was even Popular.... Then connection got better, Internet Revenue from ads sky rocketed and Online Streaming web site became profitable for the owners so they can provide a free product with their ads revenue... They just HELPED the community to grow and to know about the game... Now that people know, the real fans are willing to pay...and from there we can continue to build for the futur. Boom baby! MLG is the biggest name in e-Sport event... And it's just the beggining
No it doesn't justify it. His point is that unless SC2 becomes really popular (aka somewhat mainsteam) PPV has no future. You will need a ton of fans as well as a ton of free (but not as good) content to make PPV viable. And the SC2 scene is neither big enough nor does mlg have the best content (matches production etc.) Sure people had to pay for SC:BW but you see how big that grew right? not very much outside Korea. A dedicated fan base sure, but not big.
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On February 16 2012 06:26 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway. I guess if they decide to include qualifiers in there deal it could go up to 120+ hours of content.
I guess MLG will sale Season tickets (which last 1 year) for approximately the same price as GSL . We don't have to worry about it. You will even have more hours than gsl since you can have access the replays of the other games.
You pay for HQ ... But it hurts your Bandwitch Limit if you use it to full capacity ..
Watch 2 streams at same time at 1080p for couple hours, and you easily reach 20 gig day
Trust me ... 10-20 gig a day is not to take lightly when you have cheap internet package.
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On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway.
You guys who are comparing MLG to GSL should probably just stop. Neither event should be charging period. BroodWar which, yes was big in Korea, but didn't receive much benefit from us foreigners had a VERY long run and up until recently did not have to search hard at all to find sponsor that would cover the costs of an event. In the begining they had to build the scene and they did. Then they profited from the end result until SC2 started killing BW. Don't need to hear an arguement that it was on TV, TV works the same way a free event online works because TV is free despite the fact that you pay a bill monthly.
To put all this simply. You should not have to charge the viewers. MLG should find a way to better use their funding I don't know the perfect solution, but this isn't even a realistic solution. Cut event costs. Renegotiate with sponsors for money earned per commercial. Find a way to stop adblock users. Cut out prize pools for irrelivent games. Change venues to a cheaper yet still accessible location. Cut down production value. Get more out of what you already own the for weekend. All sorts of things could be done long before charing the customer.
Also to those who don't think MLG is misusing funds. I think this manuver shows that the staff at MLG doesn't put a lot of thought into decision making. You guys really need someone to just do the logistics of how efficent your decisions are. Think about how badly the fucked up.
First time they're holding an event and with no past event to rely on for analysis they go PPV
Now those who might have decided to purchase it if the next arena cost money have nothing to base their decision on.
They risk their new style event by changing the format in which people view it.
They alienate gold members (who also shouldn't have existed in the first place) by not considering the fact that they think they already own a MLG yearly pass.
Despite having the better tournament during the weekend are going to now have less viewers than Assembly.
How big is that dart board of greed in Sundance's office? Though In the end when I think they might retract the PPV portion of this event I think it was all a ploy a chance to see if they could make even more money. To see how the community will react to the scenario they were presented with and then when their name is on every thread on every gaming website charge nothing allowing MLG to be in the thoughts of everyone's minds just before the event. And hey, if this uproar never happened and they got away with a subscription process Sundance gets a new car.
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Bandwith Limits.. What is this, the 90ies?
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On February 16 2012 06:16 Hrrrrm wrote:
How much are you prepared to take on to make sure a business like MLG who has been in the red for the past 10 years and is now banking on you to give them money to make sure they are profitable. Not my responsibility, I'd rather give my money to Shoutcraft and eventually grow that incrementally. At least then I don't have to deal with Extended Series.
You are making a very good point, thank you.
Screenshot should be clear even for non Germans, but just to make sure: I just sent 20€ (according to google = $26.174 USD) to donations [at] cynicalbrit.com.
MLG ain't gonna see a cent of my money. Ever.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z47UW.jpg)
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5003 Posts
On February 16 2012 06:50 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway. You guys who are comparing MLG to GSL should probably just stop. Neither event should be charging period. BroodWar which, yes was big in Korea, but didn't receive much benefit from us foreigners had a VERY long run and up until recently did not have to search hard at all to find sponsor that would cover the costs of an event. In the begining they had to build the scene and they did. Then they profited from the end result until SC2 started killing BW. Don't need to hear an arguement that it was on TV, TV works the same way a free event online works because TV is free despite the fact that you pay a bill monthly. To put all this simply. You should not have to charge the viewers. MLG should find a way to better use their funding I don't know the perfect solution, but this isn't even a realistic solution. Cut event costs. Renegotiate with sponsors for money earned per commercial. Find a way to stop adblock users. Cut out prize pools for irrelivent games. Change venues to a cheaper yet still accessible location. Cut down production value. Get more out of what you already own the for weekend. All sorts of things could be done long before charing the customer. Also to those who don't think MLG is misusing funds. I think this manuver shows that the staff at MLG doesn't put a lot of thought into decision making. You guys really need someone to just do the logistics of how efficent your decisions are. Think about how badly the fucked up. First time they're holding an event and with no past event to rely on for analysis they go PPV Now those who might have decided to purchase it if the next arena cost money have nothing to base their decision on. They risk their new style event by changing the format in which people view it. They alienate gold members (who also shouldn't have existed in the first place) by not considering the fact that they think they already own a MLG yearly pass. Despite having the better tournament during the weekend are going to now have less viewers than Assembly. How big is that dart board of greed in Sundance's office? Though In the end when I think they might retract the PPV portion of this event I think it was all a ploy a chance to see if they could make even more money. To see how the community will react to the scenario they were presented with and then when their name is on every thread on every gaming website charge nothing allowing MLG to be in the thoughts of everyone's minds just before the event. And hey, if this uproar never happened and they got away with a subscription process Sundance gets a new car.
Can you people PLEASE stop using Korean BW as an example?
You do realize KeSPA literally has to charge sponsors a fee to stay afloat? And received (dunno if they still do) government subsidy for the longest time to operate their leagues?
Do you realize that every year there was people saying BW is dead because of sponsors? Do you think OSL/MSL never had problems getting sponsors until recently? It was *always* difficult.
Korean BW model is a deadweight one simply because fans simply balked at the thought of paying for ANYTHING. This gave sponsors all the power in the world which is why it's so fucked up there right now. (well, it was fucked up before). This is why players had literally no power and the sponsors were able to do whatever they want.
We DONT want a sponsor run league. A good business model NEEDS to happen as soon as possible. Do NOT justify anything using Korean BW because Korean BW is a gigantic fluke and literally ran off gigantic sponsors who ran it for advertisement. Korean BW at one point had more viewers than professional soccer in Korea ffs and it's still a terrible terrible model to follow.
Just stop making that comparison.
It doesn't matter if it's PPV or anything. There just needs to be a workable business model. MLG is just experimenting trying to find a method that works.
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On February 16 2012 06:51 Velr wrote:
Bandwith Limits.. What is this, the 90ies?
Well I dunno how it works in Europe , But here in Canada Telecommunications have monopole, I never heard of Unlimited Bandwitch limits
From '' http://www.neowin.net/news/say-goodbye-to-unlimited-bandwidth-plans-in-canada ''
The Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission has passed a new law that makes it impossible for companies like TekSavvy in Canada to offer unlimited bandwidth to customers.
On Saturday, the company sent out a mass email to all their customers warning them that as of March 1, 2011, all customers with 5Mbps speeds and 200GB and unlimited bandwidth caps will now only have a mere 25GB allowance. The new ruling by the CRTC prevents leasing companies from having unmetered bandwidth from Bell. Many companies in Ontario and across Canada lease from Rogers and Bell, but have since been allowed to offer unmetered Internet bandwidth caps.
TekSavvy has since updated their website to reflect the new changes. Their new plan offers customers 25GB for 5Mbps down and 800Kbps up, but now offers insurance up to 300GB for $55 extra per month. Rogers closest comparable plan offers customers 15GB cap with 3Mbps down and 256Kbps up for $35.99.
The CRTC's reasoning behind the sudden change is to prevent high-activity users from ruining the experience for other customers, who may not use as much bandwidth as their neighbour.
Fortunately for 'Cable' customers of TekSavvy, their current plans remain unchanged for now. The company is still offering one unlimited package with 15Mbps down and 1Mbps up for $54.95 per month, but TekSavvy is no longer accepting new customers, as they have run out of available IP addresses, another reason why IPv6 is important. Rogers offers no 'unlimited' plan on their website.
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On February 16 2012 06:51 Velr wrote:
Bandwith Limits.. What is this, the 90ies?
This is north america
In western canada my cap is 750gb for $70 a month at 50mbps
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On February 16 2012 06:50 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 06:23 mx.raaawwwr wrote:On February 16 2012 05:55 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 05:18 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:57 drgoats wrote:On February 16 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On February 16 2012 04:37 drgoats wrote:
Yes you did, but since then they have doubled their content. Of course things will have to change. It is an unfortunate situation but people with gold passes need to realize that doubling their content doesn't come free. It all adds up with every purchase. The biggest problem I have with this is they aren't growing their fanbase from this and the only publicity they're getting is this crap. Self-sustaining or not. They aren't bringing new money into their business with this model. This isn't an emerging market like BoSs pointed out in his blog. There's all sorts of logistical issues with this and how it was carried out. It does add up after each purchase and when you get to the final total it is pretty much on par with the GSL in price. I am not too sure if they need to bring in new business. There are plenty of free tournaments out there that will draw in the new viewers. I consider that they are approaching this like the end game. If you really like SC2 then you must go see MLGs coverage. I do agree that their are some issues with how this played out but that is just part of the transition. To me that model is the future of eSports. The GSL is already doing it and they are highly touted. No, it isn't and that wasn't even the point I was making. ._. Group all the events together and then you'll see what I'm talking about. It's quite a bit when you pay for each one. If you aren't bringing in new money then what is the purpose? I don't see how they're growing their business from Winter Arena when you look at all their expenses. Normally this would come off as a cash grab, but like I said. MLG is practically paying for everything. We're focusing on the scale of this one event. Not anything else. MLG is in the business to make money; not break even. I question the decision-making. The announcement was late just like their remodel of pricing; they handled the build-up poorly and they continue to confuse their consumers. Not only that, but if you are going to do a PPV. You better do your best to market it and provide as much build-up to it as possible. I have no doubt in my mind that my fellow barcrafters will have a lot of fun watching this but gosh almighty. They could have done this a lot better. Plus their fanbase could definitely be stepped up a notch to limit the risk of holding such an event and they aren't doing themselves any favors when they close off exposure. I will add it up: MLG 4 arenas - $20 each Gold pass for championships - $30 $110 total $13.75 per tournament for all of MLG's content GSL 4 GSLs - $70 - 80 (they keep lowering prices as the year moves forward) ~$20 per tournament If you start adding in their other events like the GSTL's you are looking at over $20 per tournament and over $150 for the year. So basically MLG tournaments cost less than GSL tournaments assuming that you are unable to watch the free stream of GSL. A counter argument could be that MLGs only run on a couple of days while the GSL just keeps on delivering. This is true but do not forget that MLG did offer the qualifiers for the arenas free of charge. That will turn out to be a little less than 4 months of free MLG content. As for the rest of your post I pretty much agree with most of what you say. I am not saying that they handled this right I just understand why it is happening. MLG had to make a tough decision and was going to take a lot of shit for it. They are probably hoping this will blow over and I am pretty sure that it will. Personally I get GSL Light which is 75$ 75$ is all I pay. For a few hundred hours of Gameplay For MLG arena its 1$ per hour. Not sure if that's worth it. I'll just end up watching the VODs anyway. You guys who are comparing MLG to GSL should probably just stop. Neither event should be charging period. BroodWar which, yes was big in Korea, but didn't receive much benefit from us foreigners had a VERY long run and up until recently did not have to search hard at all to find sponsor that would cover the costs of an event. In the begining they had to build the scene and they did. Then they profited from the end result until SC2 started killing BW. Don't need to hear an arguement that it was on TV, TV works the same way a free event online works because TV is free despite the fact that you pay a bill monthly. To put all this simply. You should not have to charge the viewers. MLG should find a way to better use their funding I don't know the perfect solution, but this isn't even a realistic solution. Cut event costs. Renegotiate with sponsors for money earned per commercial. Find a way to stop adblock users. Cut out prize pools for irrelivent games. Change venues to a cheaper yet still accessible location. Cut down production value. Get more out of what you already own the for weekend. All sorts of things could be done long before charing the customer. Also to those who don't think MLG is misusing funds. I think this manuver shows that the staff at MLG doesn't put a lot of thought into decision making. You guys really need someone to just do the logistics of how efficent your decisions are. Think about how badly the fucked up. First time they're holding an event and with no past event to rely on for analysis they go PPV Now those who might have decided to purchase it if the next arena cost money have nothing to base their decision on. They risk their new style event by changing the format in which people view it. They alienate gold members (who also shouldn't have existed in the first place) by not considering the fact that they think they already own a MLG yearly pass. Despite having the better tournament during the weekend are going to now have less viewers than Assembly. How big is that dart board of greed in Sundance's office? Though In the end when I think they might retract the PPV portion of this event I think it was all a ploy a chance to see if they could make even more money. To see how the community will react to the scenario they were presented with and then when their name is on every thread on every gaming website charge nothing allowing MLG to be in the thoughts of everyone's minds just before the event. And hey, if this uproar never happened and they got away with a subscription process Sundance gets a new car.
As successful as SC2 was at MLG they still spent more money on it then they have made. You cant manage a business where you spend more than you make and they need to have it be profitable for players to go to there events so they cant touch the prizepool. They cut basically everything that they possibly could cut in order to still have an event but if you want events they need to be able to make money somewhere. If GSL didnt charge for there event there would be no GSL. It is literally that simple. Unless you are making the add revenue from television and have major corporate sponsors like BW had than you need to have a formula where you pay to either watch the event or watch it in HQ.
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How you get that awesome centry infront of your name?
Fundamentally there is nothing wrong with sports who make the most of their revenu from adds.
Soccer, tennis, golf and manny manny more sports have proven that it can be done once the audience is large enough.
The only example of a succesfull ppv sports is the wrestling thing of wich noone in europe has ever heard lol.
Ok so maybe add revenu are not sufficient atm to keep the organisations afloat.
By choosing this model though you give up on the audience ever becoming large enough to make adds and sponsorships a viable revenu.
You give up anny hope of growth it feels in exchange for a stable and sustainable niche market.
Maybe this is a good decission based on reality,maybe there is realy no hope left for starcraft to become mainstream entertainment for the younger generation.
Still it is somewhat disapointing.
There is another way btw to make it profitable, instead of increasing revenu you can decrease production costs.
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On February 16 2012 07:04 Adreme wrote:
As successful as SC2 was at MLG they still spent more money on it then they have made. You cant manage a business where you spend more than you make and they need to have it be profitable for players to go to there events so they cant touch the prizepool. They cut basically everything that they possibly could cut in order to still have an event but if you want events they need to be able to make money somewhere. If GSL didnt charge for there event there would be no GSL. It is literally that simple. Unless you are making the add revenue from television and have major corporate sponsors like BW had than you need to have a formula where you pay to either watch the event or watch it in HQ.
Or they just list sponsor revenue somewhere else so it looks like they are loosing money.
I'd do that. It's good PR.
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EPT
