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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
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Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 15 2012 21:02 eLeVaTioN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 20:48 DusTerr wrote:
For a "non mlg employee" you sure speak with a lot of knowledge about the situation... Perhaps you can answer why they announced an event and waited an additional 3 weeks before announcing that it was going to be both ppv and separate from "regular content"?
I understand that the NA talent pool is pretty low and they needed a way to get EU and KR players to attend. Offering a qualifier tournament with free travel was a great business idea. Getting the fans to pay for it is also a good idea (to their balance sheet). However, purposely withholding information and being deceitful makes part of me hope they fail.. =/ It's not hard to understand the "situation" so to speak. MLG proposed a $20 starting price for this arena, and it can be assumed logically that this was MLG's plan all along. Why they announced the Arena event and then PPV later was probably due to them still working on and finalizing the model they want to run with although we don't know that for sure. It was also posted on MLG's site that the arena tournaments, although were apart of the overall tournament structure was still considered to be extra content outside of what they typically gave in previous years. Now I've have competed in MLG tournaments for a number of years, and for everyone it sucks when you wait for announcements and I can relate to that problem, but they can't announce anything that hasn't been worked out and finalized. The idea of paying for content is something that many people saw coming or should have seen coming. Again, they aren't making money, so if you expect them to continue to run events and produce the content that they do, you have to expect them to charge for their content so they can continue to fill everyone's wants and needs as players and spectators. Getting the fans to pay is the only option any league will have eventually.
Again, I'm not arguing that PPV to pay for 32 player's to attend an event is a bad idea. However, they either had the logistics of how they were going to pay for it (PPV) and announced half of their plan while withholding the rest of the information from their customers. Very shady business imo. Or, they didn't know how they were going to pay for it but went ahead with announcing their plan. Very poor business imo.
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On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream.
So once again, do it to " support mlg "
The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees )
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On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees )
More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such
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On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such
Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it.
What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it.
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On February 15 2012 21:17 karpo wrote:
You do realize that there's been MLG events with horrible streams. Saying people should watch old VoD's don't really help if there's connectivity issues. Paying $20 and having lag and disconnects will make people furious. I've sticked to the free stream before due to MLG having issues with streams dying and disconnecting.
Also it's kinda suspicious that you know all this, are on a sub 10 post account created today, and defend MLG time and again in this thread. The last part in your post sounds like a sales pitch btw.
To start off I'm not an original Starcraft "member" so to speak. I come from console gaming and I have recently switched to SC2, and to be honest since I just switched I'm still figuring out more things about the GSL and where the large part of the community discusses thing (on the forums and such) and now that I know that this is the site where that goes on that's why I made an account. But being a console gamer in the US, MLG is all we had, unlike Starcraft which has been established for over a decade and MLG just came into the picture. However if it was NASL or GSL, or IEM or w/e other leagues there are, I would still be here telling you the same thing. I support E-sports, and in this case MLG is the league that is being discussed at the moment. If GSL were to increase their prices, I would tell you that if you thought it was worth the money and you enjoy it then pay for it. I'm giving a very simple yet logical assumption as to why this is going on, no I don't agree that $20 is a reasonable price for content but I agree with the idea of monetizing it and it didn't matter what league was being criticized, I would have said the same thing for any other. I don't know for a fact that this MLG's plan, but logically it would make sense for them to start off at this price and such. Now, yes MLG has had technical issues in the past, especially with MLG Dallas in the beginning of 2011, however over time those issues were corrected and the last events there weren't really any issues. So with just about everything corrected, I think the streams should be in great quality with nothing to worry about unless some freak accident just randomly occurred.
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On February 15 2012 21:36 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it. What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it.
Actually they announced that the first game of every day would be free to view.
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On February 15 2012 21:37 Ricemagical wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:36 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it. What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it. Actually they announced that the first game of every day would be free to view.
Really? Any link for that cause so far i have not read anything about it.
If that is true it would at least remove 1 problem.
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As an Aussie who wont be able to watch most of this live, (and particularly the finals when I'm at work on Monday), I wouldn't buy a pass.
GL though, MLG. I think you'll need it. Making this move the same weekend as Assembly is excessively bold...
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On February 15 2012 21:23 DusTerr wrote:
Again, I'm not arguing that PPV to pay for 32 player's to attend an event is a bad idea. However, they either had the logistics of how they were going to pay for it (PPV) and announced half of their plan while withholding the rest of the information from their customers. Very shady business imo. Or, they didn't know how they were going to pay for it but went ahead with announcing their plan. Very poor business imo.
And as I said, I can relate to the frustration of receiving information a bit later than wanted. To be honest, information like this has always been released in the middle of January and carries over into February. Perhaps because MLG is still a newer organization to the Starcraft community that many may not know how it functions, but for those like me it was no surprise that the information was released at this time and I expected them to release a ton of information all at once with little time, that's just how they are at times. I still don't see how they kept information from people, I do agree that perhaps they could have given word when they first announced the arenas, maybe just saying "Hey, we're also going to be running on a subscription base" but again they can't announce something that hasn't fully be analyzied and figured out. This is the first time MLG has ever tried a PPV or any pay to watch model, so they probably wanted to come up with a solid model and they looked it over and over again to ensure nothing goes wrong.
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I am very grad MLG is trying out the deep water instead of swimming in the children-area of the swimming pool until they are 40 years old... but you better be ready to swim in the deep water 
I will definitely try it out, but 20$ is real money for me and when i am not happy with what I get I will be disappointed. Be aware that everyone is able to watch Code S player vs the Top of Europe even in weekly cups now a few times per week in HD and with full time casters for free. If you want to satisfy me and want me to pay next time, too, then you better get me a damn good show - because if not, it will take a long time that i will pay even 5$....
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On February 15 2012 21:40 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:37 Ricemagical wrote:On February 15 2012 21:36 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it. What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it. Actually they announced that the first game of every day would be free to view. Really? Any link for that cause so far i have not read anything about it. If that is true it would at least remove 1 problem.
What about reading the OP?
Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long.
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On February 15 2012 20:55 Velr wrote:Uhm.. At least in germany the private TV-Stations (100% add funded for the most part) are running the BIG sports.. The state run media is left with "the shitty" ones (biatholn, lol?) that don't that many people wan't to watch .
Biathlon is a pretty big niche sport I'd say. There are millions of people watching people skiing around and shooting (i love biathlon btw : ) ).
For me there are different factors which make other sports more popular and these aren't the factors the big e-sport organizations seem to improve:
1. commentators: Most popular sports are easy to understand and you do not need somebody to tell you that one guy failed on his shot. But a lot of those commentators are either ex-professionals who have a very deep understanding of the game who might even have some insider things they can tell you or they now things about the athletes private lifes which is totally unnecessary but keeps the event alive when nothing happens for a moment (another way is to be silent which I did not see work in any sport but snooker but that is gain because we Germans have a phenomenal commentator who seems to always follow the flow of the game)
- as a casual follower you need a pretty good commentator to lead you through the game. kobe bryant missed the basket -> no points. mma's smaller army won convincingly (because of upgrades which you might not notice) ->???? You're not going to get new fans because you say "you might not understand the game but trust us: these games are of the highest quality"
There won't be any new fans to milk if you do not have commentators who entertain/teach/explain at the same time and that's a hard job. It's cool that you're giving a chance to newer casters but on a 20$ ppv event? I'm not sure about that.
2. Players: I mentioned the private life of athletes in point 1 and although it doesn't matter for the quality they deliver in a competition it might make you follow a single athlete because you sympathize with him. "Oh that cute girl likes to knit, read fantasy books and play settlers of catan and while she does all that she's owning the competition? And than she gives an interview telling everybody she had a great experience with foreign fans. I might cheer for her she seems to be pretty cool." So now you have somebody who watched a competition he/she wasn't interested in but with becoming a fan of a special person they follow the next events because they want this person to succeed.
- in esports, especially mlg we get the same 3 spots and the same jingle over the whole weekend (might not happen with the arena, but i have to base my expectations on the quality you delivered before) instead of interviews, behind the scenes footage and so on. Okay there is the occasional main stage interview which is always like "player A do you think you can win?" "what do you think about your opponent player B?"
-> if you want to get a lot of people to watch your tournament you need to show your audience who the heroes are. (hsc does it) yes the hardcore fan knows that huk likes kpop but the hardcore fans are already part of the scene they will not produce any growth in the nearer future (and if they do by getting kids it will take centuries to create enough babys to make sports a mainstream sport).
TLDR: Stop selling potentially great games with some of the best players and start selling personalities. If I see my favourite player do bad I'm like "oh damn why why why. come on now is your time". Without a connection to a player I might be like "cba it's late going to bed won't remember that tournament in 2 weeks from now"
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Could be a huge boost for Barcrafts though, now people go there to watch it, because they dont want to pay the PPV fee, like with other sports.
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On February 15 2012 21:47 eLeVaTioN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:23 DusTerr wrote:
Again, I'm not arguing that PPV to pay for 32 player's to attend an event is a bad idea. However, they either had the logistics of how they were going to pay for it (PPV) and announced half of their plan while withholding the rest of the information from their customers. Very shady business imo. Or, they didn't know how they were going to pay for it but went ahead with announcing their plan. Very poor business imo. And as I said, I can relate to the frustration of receiving information a bit later than wanted. To be honest, information like this has always been released in the middle of January and carries over into February. Perhaps because MLG is still a newer organization to the Starcraft community that many may not know how it functions, but for those like me it was no surprise that the information was released at this time and I expected them to release a ton of information all at once with little time, that's just how they are at times. I still don't see how they kept information from people, I do agree that perhaps they could have given word when they first announced the arenas, maybe just saying "Hey, we're also going to be running on a subscription base" but again they can't announce something that hasn't fully be analyzied and figured out. This is the first time MLG has ever tried a PPV or any pay to watch model, so they probably wanted to come up with a solid model and they looked it over and over again to ensure nothing goes wrong.
With they way you keep sidestepping my question are you sure you're not working for MLG?
Either they knew they were going to do PPV or they didn't know how they were going to pay for the content they announced. Neither is good business. I'd assume it's more likely they knew they were going to charge for the event. This leads me to believe they chose to withhold that information from their viewers. Their viewers, based on previous events (MLG, were lead to believe that this event would follow a similar structure. Perhaps, as you said, MLG's practices are simply unknown to us SC2 viewers. If that's the case, should we expect more of this kind of behavior from them? Because quite frankly I will not support a business that "functions like this".
There are alternatives.
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On February 15 2012 21:47 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:40 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:37 Ricemagical wrote:On February 15 2012 21:36 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it. What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it. Actually they announced that the first game of every day would be free to view. Really? Any link for that cause so far i have not read anything about it. If that is true it would at least remove 1 problem. What about reading the OP? Show nested quote +Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long.
Ok fine, seems i overlooked that then. Will check it out to see if its worth it then.
edit: Ah, i see why i overlooked it, it was hidden in the instant vod part which i frankly skipped since i don't really care about those.
You would think they have something like that as another bold point but ok, point taken.
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On February 15 2012 22:05 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:47 Soap wrote:On February 15 2012 21:40 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:37 Ricemagical wrote:On February 15 2012 21:36 Assirra wrote:On February 15 2012 21:31 syllogism wrote:On February 15 2012 21:24 Dodgin wrote:On February 15 2012 21:20 syllogism wrote:
What some of you fail to realize is that the proceeds of these arena events could potentially finance their main, free events. Moreover, they do offer a free alternative, just a week late, which isn't bad given that they are in the form of VODs rather than a low quality stream. So once again, do it to " support mlg " The community is not a charity, even though we have been treated like one. ( donations for everything you can think of, including bailing someone out of a ton of money in hotel fees ) More like the tournaments aren't charities, even though the community treats them as such Sigh, people are willing to pay money for something if they think its worth it. What a lot of people saying here is that they simply don't think its worth it compared to the competition and you cannot even check if it is without actually paying for it. Actually they announced that the first game of every day would be free to view. Really? Any link for that cause so far i have not read anything about it. If that is true it would at least remove 1 problem. What about reading the OP? Don’t want to buy anything without seeing it first? We agree, and we wouldn’t ask you to. You should know exactly what you’re getting. We’ll be streaming the first match from the Main Stream and each of the three gameplay streams on Friday and Saturday for free. And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long. Ok fine, seems i overlooked that then. Will check it out to see if its worth it then.
There will be no games on that stream. So i doubt it will be worth checking it. I really hope they will not play the "Im a gold member" commercial on that stream or the community would lynch them.
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20 bucks is like two GSL season tickets....
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On February 15 2012 21:47 eLeVaTioN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 21:23 DusTerr wrote:
Again, I'm not arguing that PPV to pay for 32 player's to attend an event is a bad idea. However, they either had the logistics of how they were going to pay for it (PPV) and announced half of their plan while withholding the rest of the information from their customers. Very shady business imo. Or, they didn't know how they were going to pay for it but went ahead with announcing their plan. Very poor business imo. And as I said, I can relate to the frustration of receiving information a bit later than wanted. To be honest, information like this has always been released in the middle of January and carries over into February. Perhaps because MLG is still a newer organization to the Starcraft community that many may not know how it functions, but for those like me it was no surprise that the information was released at this time and I expected them to release a ton of information all at once with little time, that's just how they are at times. I still don't see how they kept information from people, I do agree that perhaps they could have given word when they first announced the arenas, maybe just saying "Hey, we're also going to be running on a subscription base" but again they can't announce something that hasn't fully be analyzied and figured out. This is the first time MLG has ever tried a PPV or any pay to watch model, so they probably wanted to come up with a solid model and they looked it over and over again to ensure nothing goes wrong.
"They can't announce something that hasn't fully be analyzied and figured out". Isn't that EXACTLY what they did? Furthermore, I highly doubt they came up with a solid model or did any substantial prior research. If 2700/3000 people on TL of all places are saying NO to the product then in my eyes they obviously didn't do their homework.
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EPT
