EPTI don't see what the fuss is about. If you don't want to pay (which I won't do because of the time issue being in europe) then don't pay and don't watch. MLG will continue as normal.
MLG Winter Arena to be PPV - Page 163
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
I don't see what the fuss is about. If you don't want to pay (which I won't do because of the time issue being in europe) then don't pay and don't watch. MLG will continue as normal. | ||
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Ostby
Norway38 Posts
But im not that sad, Assembly has an insanely stacked bracket, with all of europe's best players. Sick HD stream with TB and apollo as casters. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:07 StarStruck wrote: You misread that info. They were saying each game caster receives 20K per event from MLG. Which is a pretty absurd price tag. If that is in fact the case then they're definitely overpaid. Most sports casters don't even make close to that amount compared to the work they put in. Talk about role reversals. That is still wrong. For Providence, MLG paid $20k for every caster for every title they carried. SC2 alone had 10 casters. Not sure how many the other games had. MLG Lee or Adam said this earlier in this thread. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:46 Dante_A_ wrote: I fully understand the value of a tournament spread out over time, but also understand the value of a single weekend tournament. Can you compare the excitement of Leenock's run through MLG Providence to Jjakji's run through the GSL? I believe most people would place a higher "excitement" rating on Leenock and what he pulled off over the span of a few days, even though Jjakji's accomplishment could be considered more impressive in some ways. My argument was that just because the GSL is charging X, it doesn't mean that it would be wrong for the MLG to charge X for a different product. They are two different quantities, and are priced completely independently of each other. Your free to pay for one and not the other. I'm not sure why the price of the GSL matters when the MLG is producing a completely different product. For people in North America, the MLG is on during prime-time. The GSL on the other hand is extremely difficult to watch live for North Americans, and many watch the VODs, which is a very different product than a watching a live stream. Some of us watch Starcraft for the Starcraft, not for the drama. That's why I nearly always flick off my stream (unless I'm feeling sadistic) when I see [nameless foreigner] vs MVP or something. Yeah it's "cool" I guess, but it's gonna be a joke of a game. | ||
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Dante_A_
United States161 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:56 TrickyGilligan wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2012 08:45 Dante_A_ wrote: The outrage over this feels very childish (literally) to me. I've seen people complain that: - Because MLG was formerly free, they owe the community further free tournaments. - MLG should be OK with losing money right now (insert a litany of reasons). - If a small 1 day tournament can charge $5, MLG's large 3-day tournament with the top casters should charge $5! We need to pay for things we consume in this world. If your not willing to pay for the MLG, thats a sign you give it a very low value. You have to pay for everything else in the world. I get the sense that a lot of the outrage is coming from younger people who haven't yet paid any bills or lived on their own (that isn't a flame, but is my honest feeling). Its understandable immaturity, but not something that is really offering any sound arguments. *Can't understand all this outrage* *Calls everyone who disagrees with him immature* No, actually my whole post was specifically about how I do understand this outrage. I'm making a specific link to the fact that younger people (who are a lot of the fans of Starcraft), often don't have the monetary resources of older people. I stated that its understandable for teens without a salary to be upset over the MLG charging $20. But the incongruity lies in the fact that people in the community are such fervent lovers of Starcraft, and in adult life you generally have to pay to enjoy your hobbies (may they be cars, superficially free things such as running (good running shoes are ~$100, or even computer gaming, as computers are not free). For example, if someone paid $1000 for their computer, and then had to purchase $20 tournaments through MLG, it might not seem so much. But if someone received their computer as a gift from their parents, then the $20 purchases are a much larger portion of their outlay (in fact, it is all of it). Its reasonable for a kid to perceive this $20 charge a lot differently than an adult, because as a % of total income its a drastically different cost. I'm not putting teens down, I'm just pointing out that the younger people who are outraged over the cost have to acknowledge that putting together events like this costs money, and there are indeed lots of people with enough money to pay $20 for a weekend tournament if they so choose (i.e. a lot of the adult SC2 population). Its also reasonable to ask people to see that MLG is not doing something evil to people who do not have jobs, just as movie theaters and gas stations charging for their services aren't even, but rather supporting their businesses. It is not a right to receive free things, which is why we all get jobs. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:55 Shiori wrote: Some of us watch Starcraft for the Starcraft, not for the drama. That's why I nearly always flick off my stream (unless I'm feeling sadistic) when I see [nameless foreigner] vs MVP or something. Yeah it's "cool" I guess, but it's gonna be a joke of a game. the event becomes better with a great story line. Naniwa's insane run at Dallas, Huk becoming the first foreigner to win since the addition of Koreans, Leenocks insane run at Providence. People love that excitement, it creates a buzz about the event and an attachment to the event. It keeps people tuned in. Drama brings eyes to the sport/eSport. Why do you think the Super Bowl increased in viewers in the 4th quarter? Close game, almost over, DRAMA. | ||
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Dante_A_
United States161 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:55 Shiori wrote: Some of us watch Starcraft for the Starcraft, not for the drama. That's why I nearly always flick off my stream (unless I'm feeling sadistic) when I see [nameless foreigner] vs MVP or something. Yeah it's "cool" I guess, but it's gonna be a joke of a game. Then its great for you that there are multiple options to choose from, and for example, you can choose to purchase the GSL and avoid the MLG Winter Arena. I am actually completely on the same page as you as far as watching Starcraft for the Starcraft, and don't enjoy some of the mid-tier international tournaments as much, so I avoid paying for them. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just pointing out that they are different entities, and so comparing their costs doesn't necessarily make sense. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 15 2012 10:55 jmbthirteen wrote: That is still wrong. For Providence, MLG paid $20k for every caster for every title they carried. SC2 alone had 10 casters. Not sure how many the other games had. MLG Lee or Adam said this earlier in this thread. They spent 200k for casters at providence ??!?!?!?!?! | ||
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sofa666king
1 Post
So look, I know I'm the bottom feeder here. I know my opinion counts for nothing. The entire rest of the world is pay-to-play, and I have to stay out of most of that, too. But I am a FAN! I am a fan, just like all of you. I think I represent a sector of the SC2 comminity from whom all of you rarely hear--after all, I've been reading these forums for at least a year, but never bothered to say anything until now. There must be tens or hundreds of thousands like me. Surely MLG and the rest of the Starcraft community can find a way to bring us, the unfortunate, into your fold rather than driving us away. We want to participate, but cannot. Is it really so expensive to stream 360p? To make VODs of that quality available? Is there not something we can do to earn the right to participate? (Edit: Forgive me for forgetting that the VODs will be made available after the event. That is precisely the sort of better-than-fair consideration that folks like me need to remain engaged. So for that, I thank MLG. I still wonder whether a low-def streaming broadcast might do more to draw in premium subscribers, but I'm going to guess the answer to that is that they have already tried. And by the way, I think you all are a pretty interesting crowd.) | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:08 Sub40APM wrote: They spent 200k for casters at providence ??!?!?!?!?! How can people misquote someone from the same thread they were in? He said they paid 20k total for all there casters across all there games. 10 casters forsc2+reach+cod means that the caster cost wasnt as huge as it was made out to be. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:19 Adreme wrote: How can people misquote someone from the same thread they were in? He said they paid 20k total for all there casters across all there games. 10 casters forsc2+reach+cod means that the caster cost wasnt as huge as it was made out to be. No, thats not what he said. | ||
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:19 Adreme wrote: How can people misquote someone from the same thread they were in? He said they paid 20k total for all there casters across all there games. 10 casters forsc2+reach+cod means that the caster cost wasnt as huge as it was made out to be. "MLG paid 20k for every caster for every title they carried" vs "MLG paid 20k for all the casters at the event" vs "MLG paid every caster 20k" | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
At least, thats the way i think about him. So.. Meh, no. I dont think they received 20k. Also, that would make Mr. Bitter look really stupid, with his comments about no tournament being profitable (because he would be a reason for that). Cant imagine Bitter that stupid. | ||
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
On February 15 2012 11:12 sofa666king wrote: I signed up to say this bums me out. I'm dirt poor, using a crappy netbook with a broken screen. Not only can I not play Starcraft II, I can't even watch it streaming at 480p. Even if I had the graphics horsepower, my bottom-tier Internet service still can't keep up with high definition broadcasts. So look, I know I'm the bottom feeder here. I know my opinion counts for nothing. The entire rest of the world is pay-to-play, and I have to stay out of most of that, too. But I am a FAN! I am a fan, just like all of you. I think I represent a sector of the SC2 comminity from whom all of you rarely hear--after all, I've been reading these forums for at least a year, but never bothered to say anything until now. There must be tens or hundreds of thousands like me. Surely MLG and the rest of the Starcraft community can find a way to bring us, the unfortunate, into your fold rather than driving us away. We want to participate, but cannot. Is it really so expensive to stream 360p? To make VODs of that quality available? Is there not something we can do to earn the right to participate? (Edit: Forgive me for forgetting that the VODs will be made available after the event. That is precisely the sort of better-than-fair consideration that folks like me need to remain engaged. So for that, I thank MLG. I still wonder whether a low-def streaming broadcast might do more to draw in premium subscribers, but I'm going to guess the answer to that is that they have already tried. And by the way, I think you all are a pretty interesting crowd.) I'm extremely disappointed that the VODs from the event won't be made available until at least one week after the event. One week after the event I will have moved on and be watching other free content like live GSL, TSL or an EU tournament. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
It should be obvious now that MLG handled the Winter Arena announcement poorly. The current commentary has been that part of the blame goes to community's dislike over the PPV model, and damning the results as a make-or-break moment for PPV eSports. This is a strange line of thought, considering that we already had tested PPV in StarCraft 2 before, and it worked. GOMtv's Arena of Legends http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Arena_of_Legends Arena of Legends is a series of invitational tournaments organised by GOMTV and which are separate from the GSL series. The invites are chosen among the prominent South Korean SC2 scene players. In contrast to GSL and GSTL formats, this tournament was available to premium users. This means that there will be no free SQ stream and no free VODs for this event. The premium ticket will be priced at 4.99$ (ad) / 9.99$ (no-ad). Rumors has it that the event was outrageously successful. While GOMtv never publicize numbers, you can check the VOD view count for yourself. the PPV model has been tested in SC2. Tested without all the drama. GOMtv followed up the first AoL with two more events, and will no doubt make more. Winter Arena may succeed or fail, but it is not a litmus test for PPV in SC2. Suggesting so is disingenuous: just putting the Community at gun point. | ||
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Dante_A_
United States161 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Callobono
Norway57 Posts
Just think its the way it works and it will be fan based things mostly these things are gona come down to that and people who think they se a market and try to profit and fail. sc2 will come and go butt will it really impact your life that mutch if you have sc2 to watch or not? | ||
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askTeivospy
1525 Posts
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