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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit. Bans will be handed out. Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. | ||
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hansmuff
United States23 Posts
[b]Limitation of Usage Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Do the free VODs (after a week) not cover this? | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
Oh and, the Silver pass for 3 MLG's for what 10, 15 bucks? That was boss. Now you're not getting any of my money. Because you're going the PPV route, people are just going to have hidden "private" streams of your streamed event and only 1 person will pay and have all their friends watch for free. Instead of keeping it cheap and getting all their money. PPV and commercials still too? When you order PPV for UFC events and such they don't have regular commercials. Disappoint. | ||
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Betelgeuse
Canada210 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:15 TechSc2 wrote: Okay some points here: 1. MLG will loose at least 40% off their viewers, meaning 40% less exposure for their sponsors 2. MLG will loose 40% off their ad revenue from their viewers 3. People don't get a choice here, thus they won't pay ( nature of human to rebel if not given a choice ) 4. People don't want to pay for stuff they don't use. All the extra's that they provide is fine for a premium account 5. There are other tournaments / season based events going on for less ( or no ) money with higher production value and less disturbance in the viewing ( MLG streams crashed on every event, or are VERY laggy for not acceptable amount of times ) So all in all they will fail in this attempt to make a service from free, into a paid service with too much crap most people don't care about. If they would provide a medium quality stream with VODS right after the matches are played, for lets say $5 then a premium account with ALL those extra's for $20, EVERYONE would be happy. Monetizing a business is perfectly fine, but their marketing department has their heads up their asses for only looking at this: Oh last time we had 13K viewers on average, so $20 times 13K is 260K which means we cover all expenses and have enough money left over from sponsorships, so lets do that. Also newcomers in watching SC2 events will NEVER watch MLG because it's $20 to try out if you like it or not. For people that say that you also have PPV movies etc, it's $5 for a BLOCKBUSTER movie WHENEVER YOU WANT TO SEE IT. also there are subscriptions that have unlimited movies for a certain amount of money, for example i pay €10 a month to have the ability to watch 30 movies including the new ones. So 30x2 hours is 60 hours of content for about $13 and here i pay $20 for 20 hours of games, and i'm a protoss player, so i have NO interest in watching TvT, ZvZ, TvZ, which cuts out AT LEAST 50% off the games. so good luck MLG, i won't be watching anything or supporting you in any regard untill you come to your senses and at least make a pure medium quality+VOD membership for a small fee. Assembly, ROG here i come You can't say that MLG will loss 40% of its viewership; It could be less it could be more, who knows maybe there will be an increase (which is entirely possible if people are willing to back the idea). I think you miss MLG's point on doing this. It isn't about MLG breaking even and assuming they can profit X amount. Sundance has always made it clear that he's trying to grow MLG and eSports into a competivite market and moves like PPV are things that can take our sport to the next level. MLG has put more money into the community then it has taken out and doing that isn't a stable model. I high doubt the marketing department looked at the numbers like you did. Your point on people rebelling and not paying for it doesn't really work because there is a choice. You either choose to pay or you don't; it is not rebellion to not pay. That's like saying you are rebelling when you choose NOT to buy food/go out for dinner. It's simply a matter of whether or not you think the content is work the $20 and are willing to buy it. Last thing is your point on PPV and $5 blockbuster movies doesn't work either. MLG is offering all VODs to everyone for free a week after. A blockbuster movie on PPV is equivalent to getting your VOD's (though MLG is clearly better because it is free). The $20 is for the experience of the MLG weekend which is like the experience of going to a theater to see a show. Sure you could wait till you can get it cheaper but you loss out on the enviroment and feel that comes with a live event. Like I said the main point here is whether or not you think an MLG weekend is worth $20 and I think thats the only good argument to have. I for one do think its worth it and will enjoy spending $20 on somthing I love to watch. If you don't agree then don't buy it and let MLG know why; don't just go with a kneejerk response and shit all over a tournement for trying somthing new. | ||
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frozenrb
Poland389 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Assembly_Winter_2012 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/Arena | ||
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NordaN
Sweden6 Posts
You can thank blizzard for that  <3 | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:39 shell wrote: "And the Dr Pepper MLG Ultimate Access Stream (more info on this soon) will be free to all, without an Arena pass, all weekend long" I kinda missed this in my first read of the OP. Seems like there is going to be a free stream. Sounds like a behind the scenes thing, definitely not gameplay. | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote: !!! WE WERE TRICKED !!! MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free. I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Blizzard gets a cut of what ever MLG makes off SC2, so it wouldn't make sense to disallow the PPV when they would be profitting off it. Blizzard most likely wavied this limitation. | ||
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Seohce
United Kingdom394 Posts
People who think they can expect the production value to go up and for everything in eSport to remain free need to wake up to the real world. If you are passionate about it, support it. Unfortunately the real world revolves around money and if eSports is to become truely mainstream and be accepted as a professional sport then it will have to start making money and lots of it. | ||
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
edit: Will watch assembly too. Brb gotta go buy 10 more monitors for all the epicness and action | ||
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RenSC2
United States1059 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:03 Prochainezo wrote: Yup, they went bankrupt eventually after having all their talent stolen. I'm gonna go ahead and say that 'stealing talent' is unlikely to occur in starcraft. So my example still holds. Please, try harder. Talent stolen by who? If the PPV model was so successful, why couldn't ECW pay its wrestlers equivalent amounts of money? The company that stole the talent put their product on network TV for free. Surely they couldn't afford to steal talent when giving away so much free content, right? Yes, they had some PPVs too, but a ton of their content was given away for free. In turn, they managed to sell out arenas. They managed to sell a ton of merchandise. And they managed to eventually pull in some big bucks through PPV of special matches. However, the big bucks only came after they built a huge audience. As for the main argument, if you think the three days is worth the $20, then buy. If not, don't. I think it's perfectly fine that MLG is trying this. If it makes them money, good for them, but I doubt it will long-term. The only thing that annoys me is that they charge $20 because they're a "business", but expect us to pay to "support e-sports". Since when am I supposed to be giving charity to a for-profit business? Due to the uproar and the novelty, I wouldn't be surprised if they hit 5k+ people this time trying to "support esports". Next time around? I doubt they even get half that. And that's the problem with this whole "support e-sports" BS. It's BS. It's not sustainable. If you don't like a product enough to want to buy it on its own merits, then that product isn't viable no matter how many charity dollars you toss into it. I have no desire to create that bubble just to put a few of my dollars into someone else's pocket. Tournaments need to develop sustainable models. Perhaps it means not being at a LAN. Perhaps it means not paying for everything for your players. And I get it... people want to see Koreans play and Koreans only come to MLG because everything is paid for. Then every other team manager complains about the unfairness that they have to pay for their own players to go and many European teams refuse. European fans want to see European players battle against the Koreans. So MLG caves and does this arena thing and flies everyone out. To pay for it, they charge $20 PPV. I think they should have cut this problem off at the very beginning. Don't pay for anyone to fly out. If a Korean team wants to send in an Ace to own it up, cool. If the reddit community wants to send someone to an MLG, great. If people want to create satellite tournaments to a big tournament like in Poker, that works too. If not, oh well. At least we'll be able to see the best of NA battle it out and we can keep pretending that Idra/Huk are the best players in the world. The end result is that we have a tournament with significantly reduced costs, but would still draw the vast majority of the current NA audience. Similar revenues + reduced costs hopefully equals a profit (how deep in the red are they?). Eventually that profit can be filtered into the prize pool. That prize pool would eventually attract more outside talent and help the tournament grow even more. Instead of trying to obtain natural, sustainable growth, they decided to go for the big bubble. Now they expect us to keep inflating that bubble. How long will a few diehards keep trying to prevent that bubble from bursting? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:41 Betelgeuse wrote: You can't say that MLG will loss 40% of its viewership; It could be less it could be more, who knows maybe there will be an increase (which is entirely possible if people are willing to back the idea). I think you miss MLG's point on doing this. It isn't about MLG breaking even and assuming they can profit X amount. Sundance has always made it clear that he's trying to grow MLG and eSports into a competivite market and moves like PPV are things that can take our sport to the next level. MLG has put more money into the community then it has taken out and doing that isn't a stable model. I high doubt the marketing department looked at the numbers like you did. Your point on people rebelling and not paying for it doesn't really work because there is a choice. You either choose to pay or you don't; it is not rebellion to not pay. That's like saying you are rebelling when you choose NOT to buy food/go out for dinner. It's simply a matter of whether or not you think the content is work the $20 and are willing to buy it. Last thing is your point on PPV and $5 blockbuster movies doesn't work either. MLG is offering all VODs to everyone for free a week after. A blockbuster movie on PPV is equivalent to getting your VOD's (though MLG is clearly better because it is free). The $20 is for the experience of the MLG weekend which is like the experience of going to a theater to see a show. Sure you could wait till you can get it cheaper but you loss out on the enviroment and feel that comes with a live event. Like I said the main point here is whether or not you think an MLG weekend is worth $20 and I think thats the only good argument to have. I for one do think its worth it and will enjoy spending $20 on somthing I love to watch. If you don't agree then don't buy it and let MLG know why; don't just go with a kneejerk response and shit all over a tournement for trying somthing new. There is no way they're going to get more viewers. In fact, the guy was being generous. They could break even, but if you look at their expenses. Many things don't make sense. The biggest one being flying down all 32 players when you aren't getting full value for them. It's bogus. | ||
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quantumslip
United States188 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:34 wunsun wrote: I don't understand why the half time show is relevant. Isn't the actual Superbowl more valid for a comparison. Which had quite a few commercials. Anyways, I don't mind them running commercials, but if its going to be PPV, there should be much less commercials throughout the event. Well the superbowl is free and this PPV isn't, so there are going to be commercials for the free event. But that's besides the point. The main point I was trying to make was that having a company name attached to an event/aspect of the event (like the Dr. Pepper pregame show or the Superbowl halftime show sponsored by Bridgestone) does not automatically mean that event is going to carry commercials. People see the company name and automatically jump to the assumption that there are going to be commercials just because of that for the PPV event. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:45 Seohce wrote: I will be purchasing this and think $20 is more than reasonable for what they offer, especially if with the introduction of PPV they up the production even higher and it becomes more and more like other professional sporting programmes such as boxing PPV. People who think they can expect the production value to go up and for everything in eSport to remain free need to wake up to the real world. If you are passionate about it, support it. Unfortunately the real world revolves around money and if eSports is to become truely mainstream and be accepted as a professional sport then it will have to start making money and lots of it. Sigh, why is this so hard to understand for some of you people? It's not that everything has to be free its just that lots of people simply think that the price is not right. If it would have been 10dollar with like first time free for everyone to check it out it would have been so much more reasonable. You simply cannot ask me to pay 20 dollar for 3days when i don't even know if its worth it at all. 20dollar may not be much, but it is still my money. | ||
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RedZack
Germany58 Posts
I might still give them my money, depends a lot on streaming times. And I hope this works out well for MLG; what they are doing/trying seems to be good for the sport :-) | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
I however will not purchase a ticket for this event because of 2 main reasons: 1) I think the price is too high. $20 for a weekend of SC2 action (which due to timezones i'll unfortunately miss quite a bit) is too much in correlation to how our SC2 products are being priced. Even in combination with their previous weekend deals its too much. I think they would sell twice the tickets for half the price (not sure if they did market research on this, excuse me otherwise). Another part is: I'm a goldmember of MLG since last year, shouldnt this be part of deal or at least discount? 2) Assembly is in the exact same weekend, with also a very strong lineup. And this event is free and better scheduling for us Europeans. Therefor i'll just watch Assembly instead (because i have a choice atm). For future events (i do like the idea) i hope they cut their price. I'm quite sure more are willing to pay that way. | ||
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Aakoz
Sweden45 Posts
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Lord Lunga
Sweden33 Posts
a required step in furthering the growth and success of eSports. NO. | ||
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CuteZergling
641 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
Is TL taking part in MLG referal program? | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
On February 15 2012 02:54 Aakoz wrote: Will gladly pay for this to grow Esports and MLG is aaaawsome :D i don't see how supporting an unrealistic business model is helping to grow esports? | ||
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