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On February 15 2012 02:45 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Blizzard gets a cut of what ever MLG makes off SC2, so it wouldn't make sense to disallow the PPV when they would be profitting off it. Blizzard most likely wavied this limitation.
I believe I read that they only get a cut of sponsor revenue and so they wouldn't profit from this move.
I still really don't like that they need our money to run a tournament especially when their tournament isn't nearly as good as other ones around for the cost. Also I find the free service something that benefits all people involved. MLG gets sponsor revenue. Sponsors get AD time and viewers then are knowledgeable about their product. Viewers get awesome SC2.
This again I believe is another ploy by MLG to be greedy as usual. 50 Million in revenue in 2009, but somehow can't turn a profit. Consistantly claim they're in the red, but somehow this company still survives. Economy goes bad and companies are in the red for 1 year and they're forced to shut their doors. MLG in the red since their ineception, but decides to run a tournament in a structure that is much more costly than their normal structure. So, MLG are you really in the red? Do you need my cash? Or are you trying to invest in foreclosures in Miami off my dime?
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On February 15 2012 03:03 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
For the third time, its the price, not that it isnt for free. Do you get that, or are you really not able to simply read?
I'm not able to comprehend how anyone can claim $20 is alot of money. You need to figure your life out if $20 bucks is too much to spend on something you enjoy. This isn't like Yankee stadium charging 15 bucks for a cup of beer, $20 is a decent price point.
MLG's only mistake was assuming that our community had income and could afford things apparently
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On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
Playing and watching games is an adult activity?
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On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
No, I pay $15 for GSL. That's about all the money I give to "E-Sports" (LOL...) I suppose unlike you, I actually like saving money for slightly more important things in life than a weekend of SC2 that I'll probably watch less than 3 hours of total because of hw and classes. SC2 is neither a major part of my life, nor is it important enough for me to spend $20 of HARD-EARNED money on a single weekend.
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On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
You must be so spoiled to think like that.
And people should stop claiming that:
- 20$ is nothing
- people who complain should get a job
Both are offensive.
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On February 15 2012 03:06 zomgE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
widen your perspective kid.
Get a job kid.
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On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone.
Do you not understand that people value things differently? And that most of the people here are saying 20 is too much? Not saying that charging anything is awful? Charging $20 for less value than a $15 GSL event with better production, casters, and players is a rip off in a lot of peoples eyes.
People disagree with you. Get over it. You're delusional if you think fans should pay any amount of money MLG asks, even if they don't think it provides enough value for their money.
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The people who insult others for not paying, you guys ever heard of sponsor money? They generate money, MLG isn't some charity that wants to earn money for once, they have already earned money from sponsorships. They will find out whether this business model works, I for one think it won't, and will not pay for it.
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On February 15 2012 02:03 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:56 Prochainezo wrote:On February 15 2012 01:48 SovSov wrote:On February 15 2012 01:33 Prochainezo wrote:On February 15 2012 01:10 Xcobidoo wrote:On February 15 2012 01:06 Prochainezo wrote:On February 15 2012 00:56 floor exercise wrote:On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
I feel so blessed to have this opportunity to give people my money! Yup, this fanbase is retarded. No wonder nobody is making any money. I wonder if you could run a million dollar company getting $0 injected from such a large portion of your hardcore fanbase. Infact, I challenge you to think of one sport that doesn't rely on people happily buy entry tickets/merchandise/food and drink on site to support themselves. Until all you people realise this is the real world, and millions of dollars doesn't just grow on trees, then starcraft will never get anywhere. I'll say it again, you guys are so shortsighted it hurts. And how do you think the fanbase for sports that have been around forever were built up. By charging insane prices in their infancy? No way josé, they were built brick by brick until it could sustain itself by selling merchandise etc. Each season making their product better when people were ready to pay more. That's the way empires are built. Favoring money over growth is how a bubble is blown and a card house is stacked. There are two kinds of sports to consider here. 1. The ones that already have a huge fanbase (baseball,basketball,football,soccer) because they are games that everyone is familiar with. 2. The ones that are starting from nothing and have to slowly build themselves. I will analyse both so you understand quite how wrong you are. 1. This is the easiest, you already have the fanbase, so you just need to make people aware of your content. Investors should be easy to find seeing as everyone is familiar with your game. Sponsors are happy to associate themselves with something everyone is familiar with. Bussiness may be slow at first, but with so many potential consumers and so much financial backing you can grow until you are big enough sustain yourself. This I beleive is what you mistakenly think starcraft is capable of. This is also the main reason why we cant compare starcraft to other sports, now onto the second case. 2. You are a small promoter looking to build a sports bussiness from scratch. There is a small hardcore fanbase, that you know you will have to rely on to succeed. Eventually you hope to reach a point where you can gain enough interest to obtain big sponsors and hopefully make people more fimiliar with your sport. This is how wrestling/UFC/boxing all began, and to survive they had to milk their fanbase for all it was worth until they could sustain themselves and prove to investors/sponsors they were legit. Certainly for those 3 sports there were times when it was the T-shirt sales that were keeping the promoters afloat. Now consider which catagory starcraft most likely falls into. As with any start-up sport, the money has to be injected from the fanbase, whether you obtain that money by PPV/t-shirt sales/ticket sales doesn't matter. It needs to come from somewhere though. Now consider where MLG makes money. All of the fans are too cheap to buy merchandise. Tickets do not account for the millions spent on the events because of the high tech equipment required to run them. Sponsors see that most people aren't familiar with starcraft, and are currently not paying enough to keep the bussiness afloat. Investors are the only thing keeping MLG in the black, but as Alex Garfield said, relying only on investors is a sure way for your bussiness to crash and burn. Now MLG is doing the right thing, by offering HQ PPV content alongside its regular free stream season, and you are all acting like its completely unreasonable. Frankly, if I were Sundance, I would have given up on this community a long time ago. I'm sorry, but how are you justifying wrestling, boxing and MMA as "new sports that had to build themselves from scratch?" Do you even know the history behind those? Please check your facts and learn your history before trying to dismiss people's arguments. The reason those types of sports use PPV is because the fights are special events that don't happen every day (like they can with football, basketball, etc). Fighters can't fight every single day. It is simply a difference in the way the sport is handled. Then, when the fights do happen they don't last terribly long. This is what sets up an easy PPV model for those sports to use, because they can't benefit from continued ad revenue from daily or weekly TV time that other sports enjoy. Now after considering the reason behind fighting sports being PPV, tell me which you think StarCraft is more comparable to? Fighting sports or traditional sports? I'm so sick of this UFC argument and comparing it to StarCraft. It is complete bogus and just a buzz-argument that sheep copy and paste from some higher-up who used the terrible example. No no no. You completely missed the point. Ignore PPV for a second, its just a coincidence that it is how they are all run at the moment. My point is they all went from unheard of sports to now mainstream moneymakers by exploiting their hardcore audience to the fullest potential. My point is simply that the money has to be injected from somewhere. Boxing/Wresling/UFC survived off of shirts/tickets and being able to pay their talent a very small amount because it was a start-up sport. Now MLG cant do any of those things, so the only option left is to charge for the stream. Ignore the fact they all currently use PPV, thats just an unhappy coincidence of how they all came to do bussiness. It's quite simple, I'm not paying because I disagree with MLG's choice to pay for the flight/hotel costs of all the players they have invited. The NFL doesn't ask me to pay for the plane ticket of the New York Giants every game. I'm not obligated to support what I feel like are bad business decisions. If you feel like supporting e-sports this way, go ahead; I'll support e-sports by watching Assembly. What you've been doing to people in this thread is talking down to them because they don't share the same value of their dollar as you do and that needs to stop.
I wish more people would underline this point. I don't mind paying 20$ for the event if it's a sustainable business model. What I do mind is paying for boneheaded decisions like flying everyone to NYC and shacking them up in fancy hotels. Stuff like this is why MLG cannot make a profit even with revenues of 50 MILLION DOLLARS or more.
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You have obviously no idea what you're talking about. Many ppl here agree to pay. But most don't want to pay this much for THREE DAYS when other streams are free or cheap.
Should we be ashamed because we DONT WANT THEIR PRODUCTS ? Should i be ashamed because i don't buy EVERYTHING they offer to me ? We don't all have a job, or enough money to put in it. Hey, guess what, it's the motherfucking crisis out there.
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If you really truly want eSports to succeed, then buy the damn PPV ticket. More money in the pockets of an organization that has been putting on quality events for the past year is a good thing. Hell, I have been going to MLG's since 2005. I believe in the organization and they have earned my money.
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On February 15 2012 03:07 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
For the third time, its the price, not that it isnt for free. Do you get that, or are you really not able to simply read? I'm not able to comprehend how anyone can claim $20 is alot of money. You need to figure your life out if $20 bucks is too much to spend on something you enjoy. This isn't like Yankee stadium charging 15 bucks for a cup of beer, $20 is a decent price point. MLG's only mistake was assuming that our community had income and could afford things apparently
it's a lot (two words btw bro) considering that other events are free and do the same job
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On February 15 2012 03:07 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
For the third time, its the price, not that it isnt for free. Do you get that, or are you really not able to simply read? I'm not able to comprehend how anyone can claim $20 is alot of money. You need to figure your life out if $20 bucks is too much to spend on something you enjoy. This isn't like Yankee stadium charging 15 bucks for a cup of beer, $20 is a decent price point. MLG's only mistake was assuming that our community had income and could afford things apparently
Of course. What do you think the major demographic for SC2 is?
high school students-college students-young adults.
Do you honestly think people like that can blow $20 like its paper money?
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On February 15 2012 03:07 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:03 m4inbrain wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
For the third time, its the price, not that it isnt for free. Do you get that, or are you really not able to simply read? I'm not able to comprehend how anyone can claim $20 is alot of money. You need to figure your life out if $20 bucks is too much to spend on something you enjoy. This isn't like Yankee stadium charging 15 bucks for a cup of beer, $20 is a decent price point. MLG's only mistake was assuming that our community had income and could afford things apparently
Dont blame others if youre just not able to compare what you could get for 20 bucks otherwise (a month worth of content in GSL for example).
Honestly, i really dont need to figure out my life if i actually can tell the difference between ripoff and good value. But hey, thats just me. But cute, that 15 bucks for a beer is WAY to much, but 20 bucks for a weekend (where the GSL gives you a month worth better content for that) is decent?
Yeah. Im the immature one here.
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On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
I think the only person crying like a little girl is you. I have a job and I pay for SC2 content. I pay for GSL, MLG Gold, I contribute to various charity drives where people play 24h for charity.
I see this as too expensive for what it is, and I want that direction to change. If this is the price for paying the pro-gamer's travel and lodging, then I will not support it and I'd rather their teams have to continue to find funding.
You are completely blind and haven't understood a single posting in this thread. Your ignorance is glaring and disgusting and frankly, I urge you to actually read what people are saying. But certainly, I'm not counting on it.
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As someone with a full time job, plenty of money, and a huge love of professional Starcraft 2, let me say...
Congrats MLG on losing a loyal viewer! ESPORTS is a growing commodity that you should be nurturing carefully, but instead you are choosing to milk the cash cow while the getting is good. To me this feels like a cheap way to profit from sc2 while it is "hot" and cheapens the scene. This makes it seem like MLG has little interest in sc2 long term, as they clearly would rather take a short term financial boom over long term stability. Hopefully this doesn't blow up in your face too badly MLG.
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On February 15 2012 03:03 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:01 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone.
stop raging and read the thread. you're more mad then the people feeling ripped out. chill out.
The major issues are the gold member fiasco and the price. The price is way to high compared to 1) competition 2) product being offered (for most people).
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On February 15 2012 03:08 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
You must be so spoiled to think like that. And people should stop claiming that: - 20$ is nothing - people who complain should get a job Both are offensive.
Spoiled huh? LOL! So me getting a degree and starting a business to make money makes me spoiled? Because I'm not a moron, and I understand how business work, I'm spoiled? Because I enjoy paying for things to ensure more of the same things continue, I'm spoiled? Because I'd like to support esports and make sure players/coachers/management can feed their kids and pay their mortgages IM SPOILED? LOLLLLL
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no one asked MLG to put those events on you know, they do it to make money, don't act like MLG have some moral high ground here and are being undermined by the uncompromising "broke nerds", people just don't want to be ripped off/insulted, $20 is ripping people off
Are you new to planet earth? Are you seriously OFFENDED (LOL?) that they're charging money for this? Do you honestly believe everything esports should be free? How do you expect these people to feed their families? You're delusional if you think they should make everything free for everyone.
It's not about anything FREE, it's value against money, and MLG bites the dust in that regard to ANY other tournament or stream out there.
So either they exponentially increase their production value or they decrease the cost, simple as that. It's exactly how it goes in the real world, you can charge alot of money for a Harman Kardon audio system, but if you do not have that brand label on it, forget about charging that much.
I've seen NUMEROUS posts that people would pay $10 bucks for a weekend but not 20, so it's simple, MLG cuts down the price to 10$ and there won't be any complaining anymore aside from the real QQ'ers that want everything for free.
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