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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 15 2012 03:07 Klipsys wrote:
I'm not able to comprehend how anyone can claim $20 is alot of money. You need to figure your life out if $20 bucks is too much to spend on something you enjoy. This isn't like Yankee stadium charging 15 bucks for a cup of beer, $20 is a decent price point.
MLG's only mistake was assuming that our community had income and could afford things apparently
The problem is that some of us true fans are spending a lot more than $20 on starcraft and e-sports in general. I spend about $45 a month already. That includes GSL-premium-monthly, a few FPS leagues that only charge a couple bucks, and also an MLG Gold Membership of course.
To bump that $45 up any more is a big deal for me. I'm not poor by any means, but I shouldn't have to spend more on E-sports than I do on pay-per-view TV sporting events (which is now the case).
It should be $10.
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I'm worried that if it was $10, there'd still be many complaints about why it's not 5. We've seen Sc2 grow up being nearly completely free from streams to tournaments. This forces the business model of eSports into mainly sponsorship driven, which isn't a necessarily bad thing, after all, pro sports teams survive similarly. The question is, does eSports have the momentum, the population base necessary for sponsorship to continue to exist? Maybe, maybe not.
I agree that $20 is too much, maybe I'd pay $10, I don't know. What disappoints me is that why MLG is trying to use both a subscription and a PPV model. It seems like if you subscribe, you should have access to the additional content (perhaps for a marginal increase in price). I don't think PPV is the end model for eSports, I'd like to hope it's more a subscription model where the price can fluctuate based on the content.
That said, I hope that this announcement will not make a huge negative impact such that tournaments will shy away from monetizing their content. I think it's time for us, as a community to grow up and start helping support eSports. As much as we can, and think eSports deserves.
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On February 15 2012 03:13 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
People choosing to watch a free tournament instead of paying money for one!? You should all be ashamed! It's not like MLG is a business and has to earn our dollars, we should just give them wheelbarrows of cash in order to grow ESPORTS! If you don't pay $20, it means you are a failure in life and have a small penis! Get over yourself buddy, I don't think you understand how business works. It's really hard to charge money for a product when the market is saturated with similar products that are offered for free.
And at the same time, sponsorship money won't last forever. If MLG doesn't work as a self-sustained company, they'll have to downscale.
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MLG has really screwed up imo. They're trying to make a sustainable business model, I get it. But I've never been so UNenthused about MLG.
What the hell are all these qualifiers? I don't give a crap about any of these online qualifiers, etc. even if they're "supposed to determine who's the best." You know why I don't care? BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLINE. If it's online, nothing differentiates the games played for MLG with any other random online tourney that has the same damn players playing.
The ONLY reason MLG has stood out for me is because it's a big ass fricken tournament/LAN. MLG, without a doubt, was my favorite event in 2011. Everytime it came around, I killed my weekend for it. But even if MLG was free this year, I still would NOT care even remotely as much about them just because their new model blows. I haven't been able to follow them and I've pretty much given up trying.
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On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s).
Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!!
But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs......
How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2?
IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend.
MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this.
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HERP DERP I AIN'T PAYING NO MONEY TO SUPPORT MLG!!! GOSH DURN IT......JOHN NELSON WERE COMING FOR YOU!!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 15 2012 03:22 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:13 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 02:56 Klipsys wrote:
So many broke nerds it’s disgusting. Some of you should get jobs and contribute instead of being spoiled consumers. Honestly, it's like a bunch of poor children crying about wanting free shit. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, and if you're over 18, you should be EMBARRESED. These people put on a show for us to enjoy, and you want them to constantly do it for FREE? I don't think anyone here really understands how business work....
People choosing to watch a free tournament instead of paying money for one!? You should all be ashamed! It's not like MLG is a business and has to earn our dollars, we should just give them wheelbarrows of cash in order to grow ESPORTS! If you don't pay $20, it means you are a failure in life and have a small penis! Get over yourself buddy, I don't think you understand how business works. It's really hard to charge money for a product when the market is saturated with similar products that are offered for free. And at the same time, sponsorship money won't last forever. If MLG doesn't work as a self-sustained company, they'll have to downscale.
I don't think that's true. As longs as there are many many viewers sponsors will always want exposure. It's how tv rating functions lol.
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will there be commercials?
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To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
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On February 15 2012 03:21 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:19 iky43210 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:17 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 15 2012 03:16 iky43210 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:14 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 03:11 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:08 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
You must be so spoiled to think like that. And people should stop claiming that: - 20$ is nothing - people who complain should get a job Both are offensive. Spoiled huh? LOL! So me getting a degree and starting a business to make money makes me spoiled? Because I'm not a moron, and I understand how business work, I'm spoiled? Because I enjoy paying for things to ensure more of the same things continue, I'm spoiled? Because I'd like to support esports and make sure players/coachers/management can feed their kids and pay their mortgages IM SPOILED? LOLLLLL you're not spoiled you're just dumb and willing to ask how high when a corporation tells you to jump, particularly a corporation that expects you to shell out for plane tickets for korean gamers when that should be the job of the teams they represent, should it not? well if tournament sponsors don't foot some of the bills there won't be koreans at any tourney scenes MLG pays Koreans to come and we pay MLG to pay the Koreans. I don't see any sponsors in this proposed loop. To be precise MLG are tournament organizers, but at the same time they're also sponsors And that's the problem. We need new money to enter the scene, not old money recycled. PPV doesn't welcomes sponsors.
Ok, but what does that have anything to do with team should be responsible in paying their players to foreign tournaments?
MLG and NASL knows that you need Koreans to make the tourney competitive and attract viewers, both had been footing bills to get them to come over. Expecting their team to pay for those bills is unrealistic
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I'd pay quickly if they promised to update their horrible fucking website. Worst design in the history of sports, e- or not.
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so wtf did i get my membership for?
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On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid. Even more so if theres a league which charges less, with higher caliber players.
Let me correct that, here.
And yes.
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On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
My constructive criticism of you is that you just mostly sound like a mean person.
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On February 15 2012 01:36 TheHansBecker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:33 Prochainezo wrote:
Now MLG is doing the right thing, by offering HQ PPV content alongside its regular free stream season, and you are all acting like its completely unreasonable. Frankly, if I were Sundance, I would have given up on this community a long time ago.
Please read facts before commenting..
Though I disagree with MLG and what he's stating, you should read what he said again.
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On February 15 2012 03:25 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:21 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 15 2012 03:19 iky43210 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:17 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 15 2012 03:16 iky43210 wrote:On February 15 2012 03:14 mememolly wrote:On February 15 2012 03:11 Klipsys wrote:On February 15 2012 03:08 ceaRshaf wrote:On February 15 2012 03:01 Klipsys wrote:
I can't fathom the immatureness of this community
I hate doing this, but some of you need to grow the fuck up and move out of the basement. There literally isn't anything in this world that you just get for free. 3 years ago MLG didn’t even have starcraft, and now they practically exists because of it. Now they want to make some money for all of this effort, you know, like the REST OF THE GOD DAMN WORLD DOES, and you people are crying like little girls
It's DISGUSTING. GROW UP AND GET A JOB IF YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ADULT ACTIVTITES
You must be so spoiled to think like that. And people should stop claiming that: - 20$ is nothing - people who complain should get a job Both are offensive. Spoiled huh? LOL! So me getting a degree and starting a business to make money makes me spoiled? Because I'm not a moron, and I understand how business work, I'm spoiled? Because I enjoy paying for things to ensure more of the same things continue, I'm spoiled? Because I'd like to support esports and make sure players/coachers/management can feed their kids and pay their mortgages IM SPOILED? LOLLLLL you're not spoiled you're just dumb and willing to ask how high when a corporation tells you to jump, particularly a corporation that expects you to shell out for plane tickets for korean gamers when that should be the job of the teams they represent, should it not? well if tournament sponsors don't foot some of the bills there won't be koreans at any tourney scenes MLG pays Koreans to come and we pay MLG to pay the Koreans. I don't see any sponsors in this proposed loop. To be precise MLG are tournament organizers, but at the same time they're also sponsors And that's the problem. We need new money to enter the scene, not old money recycled. PPV doesn't welcomes sponsors. Ok, but what does that have anything to do with team should be responsible in paying their players to foreign tournaments? MLG and NASL knows that you need Koreans to make the tourney competitive and attract viewers, both had been footing bills to get them to come over. Expecting their team to pay for those bills is unrealistic
Teams have their sponsors that pay the team to send a player to wear a shirt. Why do I have to pay MLG to do what the team should do? Oh, many koreans wouldn't come? Fine. We need 3 of them anyway not all the GSL moved in MLG.
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On February 15 2012 03:27 Psilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
You just mostly sound like a douchebag.
He's obviously trolling or detached from reality.... or an idiot. Maybe a combination of both.
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On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this.
I agree with this, 100%.
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[B]
Ok, but what does that have anything to do with team should be responsible in paying their players to foreign tournaments?
MLG and NASL knows that you need Koreans to make the tourney competitive and attract viewers, both had been footing bills to get them to come over. Expecting their team to pay for those bills is unrealistic
The problem is MLG choose to do it and now wants money from the community because of their choice off a business model.
They are putting their "not making any money" into our laps and that's just unfair.
Dreamhack has free HQ streams, ton of interviews etc etc and doesn't pay everyones ticket and still has most top foreigner players in the tournament, so what's wrong with MLG?
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On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
Keep using that straw man, for someone who claims to know anything about business you don't seem to understand why people aren't interested in buying it.
Your argument is just rubbish in general, you could make the argument for anything that costs less than a certain amount and eventually you find yourself with a bunch of useless shit. Quite simply, it's perceived value. Within competitive Starcraft 2, people can get a lot of great content for a lot less than $20, there's no reason to shell out additional cash for such an event.
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EPT
