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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 15 2012 03:28 TechSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +[B]
Ok, but what does that have anything to do with team should be responsible in paying their players to foreign tournaments?
MLG and NASL knows that you need Koreans to make the tourney competitive and attract viewers, both had been footing bills to get them to come over. Expecting their team to pay for those bills is unrealistic The problem is MLG choose to do it and now wants money from the community because of their choice off a business model. They are putting their "not making any money" into our laps and that's just unfair. Dreamhack has free HQ streams, ton of interviews etc etc and doesn't pay everyones ticket and still has most top foreigner players in the tournament, so what's wrong with MLG?
Dreamhack is by the people for the people!
MLG main goal is to make a ton of money so giovanni can buy an island 
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On February 15 2012 03:35 LeibSaiLeib wrote:
i never understood why people are obsessed with high quality you can clearnly see action at 360-480p no problems if you dont wanna pay.
There won't be any stream available for anyone who doesn't pay
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On February 15 2012 03:36 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:35 Holdinga wrote:On February 15 2012 03:35 m4inbrain wrote:On February 15 2012 03:34 Holdinga wrote:
Can anyone give me some info for the live event? If I decide to go to NYC to watch live? Yeah, sure. .. you cant.  Well, not only you cant, but no one can (except MLG Staff) - dont get me wrong there. 
It will be a very expensive tournament exclusive for the MLG employees. It's their teambuilding.
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oh sorry i misread the main post, will there still be replays?
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Gonna keep this short and sweet. It costs too much for the amount of content you get(one weekend of starcraft 2). Not gonna buy this in a million years.
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On February 15 2012 03:30 iky43210 wrote:
they're sending 8 from Korean qualifier, just like how they're sending 8 from every region...
Teams and players aren't rich, most are not willing to spend >$2000 to travel to a foreign country to compete for a $10,000 first place. In order to stay competitive, MLG will pay for the traveling fees, its part of their investments.
If I'm not mistaken, I've seen them travel overseas for less prize money.
Even so, there is a difference between paying travel+hotel at 100% as opposed to maybe offering a $1000 stipend.
The idea, even the current take on things MLG has, may not be terrible, but it was approached in a terrible way. First of all they have many, many ways to get feedback from the community before planning to drop so much of the cost on the community.
Then their handling of the subscriber base was not thought through; how can they expect Gold subscribers to just nod and purchase without any discount? Some people surely don't mind, all power to them, but that really was a forseeable issue.
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On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
Honestly, I wont even pay $10 for this event. And here is my financial status, I am a PhD student in US (international student). So I am allowed to wprk only part-time (20hrs a week), that too only on-campus(where the pay is very low). So given this situation I earn approx $1500 a month, out of which I need to pay $800 as rent (excl utilities, as I live close to DC area), need to pay for my car installements and insurance, and to top it off I am fucking 27 years old. Most of the students here at below 22...So if my situation is so harsh, think about these students. To be really honest, I don't even save $10 per month. Just because you might be successful enough to pay for it, doesn't mean..all the other guys are cheap compared to you. Education wise, I am already hold a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering, and am almost an yr away from graduating with a Doctorate.. I skimmed through a lot of responses in this thread and as a 27 yr old full time student, I know how hand to mouth a full time student lives.
I said this before and say it again, MLG making this PPV is their decision, me watching Assembly for free is mine. Not that I am a cheap low lying guy, its just I can use those $20 to buy something useful. My another dissappointment in MLG is their way to lure people to pay in the pretext of growing eSports. They just want to grow their business, so all this crap of growing eSports is really a scam.(again this is my opinion, and i am entitled to have one).
People need to understand that in this economy, a students life is also hard, given that there are not a lot of paid intern opportunities for us.
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Wait, why are some people insinuating that there will be ads on PPV stream? Do they run ads in US during those UFC / Wrestling(?) matches too? Just curious here, never experienced PPV before (and probably never will)
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On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will
Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG.
If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid.
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On February 15 2012 01:13 Lord_J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 01:05 Xcobidoo wrote:On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
What a real shame that is. MLG knew this would be an unpopular decision. But somebody has to man up and start monetising esports, and frankly if MLG can't do it, then who the hell can?
Please, just think of all the great content MLG has given us last year alone. This is the hour when your support will count the most. If this event succeeds, then esports will grow, it is as simple as that. Just this once we need to prove we are willing to part with our cash to support our hobby, just like fans of every other sport are willing to do on a far more routine and more expensive basis.
If you can afford the $20, and you don't spend it, then as melodramatic as it may sound, you are killing esports. MLG really stuck their heads out on this one, there is no way all this bad PR is worth the measly amount they will earn from this event, and the loss in ad revenue may even hurt them. But they understand better than you do what needs to happen for esports to grow.
Reading these threads really makes me wonder if an esport will ever manage to acheive mainstream popularity with such a shortsighted and cheap fanbase. Really, its making me pretty depressed.
Do the right thing guys, or dont complain when in next years time absolutely nothing has changed.
People will look back on this in years to come, and wonder why the hell such an avid and hardcore fanbase came up with so many excuses not to support their passion. Don't be one of those people. First of all sponsors don't care how much money MLG makes, only how many people are watching and how many times you see their product during the event. Less people watching = less (need for) sponsors. Sponsors do care about the demographic that's watching, though. And if 90% of that demographic is people who can't or won't spend $20 for a weekend of entertainment, then they might rightly wonder whether it's worth their money to advertise to that demographic.
Its not that we don't have $20 to spend.
Its just not *worth* 20 dollars to spend on 1 tournament for a week-end when that money could go toward GSL which provides much more content for money than Bait and switch MLG.
Also i just bought a steelseries mouse to support e-sports because they sponsor EG so i have no problem paying for things that are worth my money.
But i will not pay a cent for a weekend tournament especially when assembly is free the same weekend.
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On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid.
Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2.
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Call me a cheap, anti-esports guy, but as long as there are events with high level play for free, I won't be paying for anything.
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Ill keep this short and sweet and echo many sentiments of posters before me.
I have the money for this, however it represents sufficient enough poor value for money that it's not worth my while to pay for.
I am a happy gold member and will continue to enjoy the events that my membership allows me to watch, however I will never be paying for any of these while it remains anywhere near the current price point.
You have clearly made a large mistake evaluating your client base and what they are willing to pay for your product, which upsets me as bad decisions means bad growth for our beloved esports. Judging by mlg staffs tweets and statements mlg clearly stand to make a loss from this event. Which is a great shame for everybody, lose/lose scenarios make me sad.
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On February 15 2012 03:39 Ashes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:25 Klipsys wrote:
To summerize:
I'm obviously lying about owning a business. I mean, how could I if I'm such a dumbass for wanting to pay for things
Also, I don't really have a degree, I make that up also to impress nerds on the internet.
I'm also an idiot because I don't understand that everyone wants to pay, just not that much because somehow the $10 threshold is enough to make everyone rage.
I don't understand how business works because other tournaments stream for free, and paying for something when there is a free alternative is stupid.
I guess I'm the only one who's going to be watching this then, Since $20 isn't 1/5th of my net worth.
This thread made my day.
They just want to grow their business, so all this crap of growing eSports is really a scam.(again this is my opinion, and i am entitled to have one).
I agree with this, its my opinion as well.
I may be wrong, but its up to MLG to prove me wrong. But still, i would never pay 20$ for a tournament without crowd (and cheering, which is one of the best parts of a big tournament).
Having that said, im going to pay 35€ (somewhere around 44 dollars or so) for one day in Hannover, Cebit (IEM WC). With people cheering, a lot of great conversations and the chance to meet new people, seeing great players live etc. Thats worth it.
I wouldnt even mind paying 20 bucks (or a bit more) to attend live to the MLG, if i were an american - but the fact that there is actually no crowd allowed at all kinda tells me the whole story.
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On February 15 2012 03:44 valaki wrote:
Call me a cheap, anti-esports guy, but as long as there are events with high level play for free, I won't be paying for anything.
for me fun thing is i never ever get adds on youtube or twitch tv, nice to live in an unimportant region (thou i still get google adds). So i woudlnt be contributing to any tournament in any way unless i buy the premium crap.
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On February 15 2012 03:43 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid. Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2.
How do you figure? That $20 I just gave to TL is $15 more than I've ever spent on ESPORTS in my entire life.
Part of the reason SC2 has had such large viewer numbers is because it's free. If suddenly everyone started charging, yeah those numbers are going to go way down. SC2 is what I watch when I don't have anything better to do, it's not something I structure my life around. If I have to pay for it, suddenly that flips, and I'm not ok with that.
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On February 15 2012 03:46 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:44 valaki wrote:
Call me a cheap, anti-esports guy, but as long as there are events with high level play for free, I won't be paying for anything. for me fun thing is i never ever get adds on youtube or twitch tv, nice to live in an unimportant region (thou i still get google adds). So i woudlnt be contributing to any tournament in any way unless i buy the premium crap.
Well sir you are a boon to the community and I am glad you enjoy all the free events. Personally, I would like to see MLG stick around, so I will be purchasing this "premium crap" you speak of.
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On February 15 2012 03:47 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:43 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid. Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2. How do you figure? That $20 I just gave to TL is $15 more than I've ever spent on ESPORTS in my entire life. Part of the reason SC2 has had such large viewer numbers is because it's free. If suddenly everyone started charging, yeah those numbers are going to go way down. SC2 is what I watch when I don't have anything better to do, it's not something I structure my life around. If I have to pay for it, suddenly that flips, and I'm not ok with that.
I sayd it sounds, i am no economic expert, its just everyone were happy that everything is growing, then suddenly MLG fired alot of its staff and now asking to pay for live proadcast. If its growing, why did they need to do that suddenly. There hasnt been new big tournaments etc, NASL has decraded (i think?) also, everything seems a bit smaller then half a year ago. But again, it might be just me.
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I´m definitely out on this one
Thats just greed beyond reality,i thought somebody would learn from the financial debacle worldwide.
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Are none of the other good tournaments (Dreamhack, IPL etc) making any money? Because if it is only MLG, then there is something wrong that won't be fixed by PPV.
Viewers will drop significantly with PPV. I wonder if less exposure is a good thing. Doubt it.
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EPT
