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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 15 2012 03:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:46 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:44 valaki wrote:
Call me a cheap, anti-esports guy, but as long as there are events with high level play for free, I won't be paying for anything. for me fun thing is i never ever get adds on youtube or twitch tv, nice to live in an unimportant region  (thou i still get google adds). So i woudlnt be contributing to any tournament in any way unless i buy the premium crap. Well sir you are a boon to the community and I am glad you enjoy all the free events. Personally, I would like to see MLG stick around, so I will be purchasing this "premium crap" you speak of.
I dont have money to buy that anyways, poor student, nothig i can do, when i dont get any adds, nothing at all... Well i do in TL and the homepages, so i guess i am contributing a little.
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On February 15 2012 03:49 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:47 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:43 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread  i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid. Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2. How do you figure? That $20 I just gave to TL is $15 more than I've ever spent on ESPORTS in my entire life. Part of the reason SC2 has had such large viewer numbers is because it's free. If suddenly everyone started charging, yeah those numbers are going to go way down. SC2 is what I watch when I don't have anything better to do, it's not something I structure my life around. If I have to pay for it, suddenly that flips, and I'm not ok with that. I sayd it sounds, i am no economic expert, its just everyone were happy that everything is growing, then suddenly MLG fired alot of its staff and now asking to pay for live proadcast. If its growing, why did they need to do that suddenly. There hasnt been new big tournaments etc, NASL has decraded (i think?) also, everything seems a bit smaller then half a year ago. But again, it might be just me.
NASL is still going, they're in between seasons right now and running a team league for the mid-season gap. I don't really think the scene has gotten smaller.
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This is exactly the turn of events that will slow e-sports to a crawl, MLG dividing the community into bits in pieces as the moments go by, making it an exclusive club to be able to watch MLG(and yes it is an exclusive club because not everyone has 20$ to spare on a viewing experience that will probably have a bunch of downtime like usual)! Im almost surprised they didn't wait 1 day before the even before letting the cat out of the bag as to it being 20$ to view, I mean they didn't even mention a thing while the onlien qualis were going or the event was announced, and now all of a sudden they need ppv for it to survive? I mean this is almost comical the way they have handled this. So when the tourney was announced it was going to be able to support sufficiently on free streams but now it cant 10 days before the event? I must be really missing something here because this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me!
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20 dollars for a weekend of Starcraft won't work. Not now, not ever. Cutting the free stream might convince a few people to pony up but it'll drive far more people away
Ive been an MLG supporter in the past but this is just a poor move by them, ain't no way to sugarcoat it.
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I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John
User was banned for this post.
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On February 15 2012 03:49 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:47 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:43 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid. Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2. How do you figure? That $20 I just gave to TL is $15 more than I've ever spent on ESPORTS in my entire life. Part of the reason SC2 has had such large viewer numbers is because it's free. If suddenly everyone started charging, yeah those numbers are going to go way down. SC2 is what I watch when I don't have anything better to do, it's not something I structure my life around. If I have to pay for it, suddenly that flips, and I'm not ok with that. I sayd it sounds, i am no economic expert, its just everyone were happy that everything is growing, then suddenly MLG fired alot of its staff and now asking to pay for live proadcast. If its growing, why did they need to do that suddenly. There hasnt been new big tournaments etc, NASL has decraded (i think?) also, everything seems a bit smaller then half a year ago. But again, it might be just me.
I wouldn't judge the ESPORTs scene after the amount of succes NASLs has since it's the least viewed league because of the production. 2012 started awesome with HSC4,IEM etc and it feels a lot bigger in every aspect. So no, I actually think Esports it's still growing.
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On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John
This is yet another reason why 20 dollars for a weekend of streams is a bad idea.
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After reading through a good chunk of this thread, I think these two posts are the most insightful:
On February 14 2012 09:54 disciple wrote:
I really dislike how Sundance talks about growing esports. Like how ? By targeting an audience to sustain your business model ? This will damn nearly kill the european viewership imo. Which if you think in the lines of being real esports fan won't be a problem, no matter where you live. But in this chaotic time of various organizations throwing in investor money to establish themselves as the biggest league, I hate the "WE ARE DOING THIS FOR ESPORTS" propaganda thing to be thrown around, when the goal of these event organizers like MLG, IPL is to raise the bar high enough to kill the others while being able to sustain their model financially. So you need 100 000$ to fly your players and be able to offer high production value. I don't remember TSL3 needing that sort of funds and it was easily the most thrilling and memorable esports fan experience in my life.
On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:
Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!!
But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs......
How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2?
IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend.
MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this.
Yesterday Sundance replied to someone on twitter about the ppv fee by saying that as a community, we just aren't big enough to be supported by sponsorship. Instead, MLG, maybe you are too big to be supported by us? Just a thought.
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On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John
I might contribute 1$ to that. Just to help Esports and the community :D
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On February 15 2012 03:54 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John This is yet another reason why 20 dollars for a weekend of streams is a bad idea.
Re-streams aren't really allowed are they ?:D Would be kinda cool though....
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On February 15 2012 03:50 LeibSaiLeib wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:49 Plansix wrote:On February 15 2012 03:46 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:44 valaki wrote:
Call me a cheap, anti-esports guy, but as long as there are events with high level play for free, I won't be paying for anything. for me fun thing is i never ever get adds on youtube or twitch tv, nice to live in an unimportant region (thou i still get google adds). So i woudlnt be contributing to any tournament in any way unless i buy the premium crap. Well sir you are a boon to the community and I am glad you enjoy all the free events. Personally, I would like to see MLG stick around, so I will be purchasing this "premium crap" you speak of. I dont have money to buy that anyways, poor student, nothig i can do, when i dont get any adds, nothing at all... Well i do in TL and the homepages, so i guess i am contributing a little.
Well luck for you there are free events for now, so you can enjoy those. I find it amusing that you believe simply looking at the ads contributes in some way. I wonder how long they will stick around, since you spend no money on any of the things you see advertised?
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On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John
Not the solution and your re-stream will likely be taken down within an hour.
Just let MLG run their PPV events and people who thing it's worth it can buy it, people who think it isn't worth it don't have to. It's literally that simple.
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Well, guess the public can be divided into two groups:
Either the personalities of the players is the main ingredient that makes tournaments interesting to you, up to a point where you say that the 20$ is worth the weekend without thinking twice and that the GSL is a total waste of money (like Nony), or the skill of the players is the main ingredient that makes tournaments interesting to you (like for example me), in that case MLG is not able to compete against the GSL.
Notice how a professional gamer belongs to the first group, while a bronze newbie belongs to the second... weird world we are living in...
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I was totally ok with this until I realized there was no free stream. I mean wtf? 20 bucks or nothing? Is that really fair? I don't think it is. So for me personally I won't pay for this.
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Maybe one step in solving the current problems is that players should be more selective in what type of tournaments they play. Or perhaps team managers should restrict where their players play. So many pro players sign up for amateurish tournaments or show matches with low prize pools, that viewers don't want to pay for things like MLG. Because, hey, I can watch top-notch play (including Koreans) at EWM, Imba, Playhem, Korean Weekly, Zotac, and tons of other weekly or monthly cups. (No disrespect to these tournaments).
If the creme-de-la-creme only played at the big dogs (GOM, IPL, MLG, Dreamhack, NASL) and if these tournaments charged, you bet ppl would be willing to pay.
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On February 15 2012 03:53 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:49 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:47 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:43 LeibSaiLeib wrote:On February 15 2012 03:40 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 15 2012 03:32 ftjust wrote:On February 15 2012 03:23 dsousa wrote:On February 15 2012 02:38 OrganicDoom wrote:!!! WE WERE TRICKED !!!MLG hyped this tourney. Gave us free online qaulifiers. Then one week before the whole thing goes down they announce this "Experiment". Hey sc2 fans even though you've been purchasing gold memberships for a month and assumed we would follow the standard buisness model. We're now not going to let you watch the event live unless you give us $20.00. Oh by the way, as long as you stop following SC2 for a week you may be able to enjoy the vods spoiler free.I'm shocked MLG donned the cloak and dagger and stuck it to loyal fans. They should man up and postpone this experiment until the next arena, when it can be fully transparent. On top of all that, this may be violating a Blizzard limitations policy. http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/videopolicy.html Limitation of Usage
Neither you nor the operator of any website where your Production(s) may be viewed can force a viewer to pay a "fee" to be able to view your Production(s). Don't forget the part where they claim they can't make money, yet the are holding this event in NYC. The most expensive city in the world for hotels and accommodations. Also note, that despite NYC being the most populous region in the western world, they won't have attendees at this event!!! But we're going to pay $20 to help cover their costs...... How much of that $20 will reach the players? $1 or $2 maybe..... MLG doesn't say... they just cry poor and whine about a niche industry. Who twisted their arm to focus their entire business on SC2? IMHO buy a t-shirt on TL if you want to support esports, donate to the next shoutcraft event..... don't support this NYC boondoggle that only MLG staff is going to attend. MLG doesn't understand the SC2 community or the SC2 market. That much is obvious after the way they've handled this. best post in this thread i wonder if mlg will run commercials to... i bet they will Seconding that this is a good post. Just used my $20 to buy a shirt, which I'm absolutely confident is a better use of my money than on MLG. If you really want to watch SC2 for $20, be my guest. But don't you dare say that those of us who don't are hurting esports or are only complaining because we're poor and stupid. Allmost sounds like there was a bubble wich is now bursting in sc2. How do you figure? That $20 I just gave to TL is $15 more than I've ever spent on ESPORTS in my entire life. Part of the reason SC2 has had such large viewer numbers is because it's free. If suddenly everyone started charging, yeah those numbers are going to go way down. SC2 is what I watch when I don't have anything better to do, it's not something I structure my life around. If I have to pay for it, suddenly that flips, and I'm not ok with that. I sayd it sounds, i am no economic expert, its just everyone were happy that everything is growing, then suddenly MLG fired alot of its staff and now asking to pay for live proadcast. If its growing, why did they need to do that suddenly. There hasnt been new big tournaments etc, NASL has decraded (i think?) also, everything seems a bit smaller then half a year ago. But again, it might be just me. I wouldn't judge the ESPORTs scene after the amount of succes NASLs has since it's the least viewed league because of the production. 2012 started awesome with HSC4,IEM etc and it feels a lot bigger in every aspect. So no, I actually think Esports it's still growing.
Its probaly just me then, but since west is so impatient and needs alot of things/event in short time to keep going in the entertainment world. Then i got this iching feeling in heart, that sooner or later sc2 sceene will collapse (get old) and will become alot smaller, i hope you guys are right and it wont happen. Tought maybe this is the first "sign". The player base might (might be because of holidays, year change) have dropped from 2 mil to 700k in 1v1.
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I have no problem paying for VODs, or even the stream in general. In the past, I have bought almost all GSL-torunaments, I have bought MLG gold to get access to VODs earlier, and I bought NASL.
If you charged $5 for a weekend, I would pay it without thinking about it. $10 and I would probably buy it, but I think it's a bit steep for only one weekend of games (even if there is a lot of content). No chance I will pay $20.
So there you go, the opinion of yet another person who actually pays for Starcraft content regularly.
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I can't help but think that Sundance really missed a fantastic marketing opportunity here. If MLG had only wrapped the Winter Arena into the existing benefits of Gold membership, they could have used the event as a vehicle to drive subscription rates- and would likely have kept many of the people who signed up for this one event as annual or long-term members.
Choosing to exclude the people who have already invested in MLG only serves to create ill will and bad faith with their existing customer base, and will be unlikely to draw many new members into the fold. So sad to see this misstep, especially when, with a little tweaking on access and price, this could have been both a great ongoing event series AND still have been a marketing success for MLG.
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On February 15 2012 03:55 Coal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:54 Gheed wrote:On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John This is yet another reason why 20 dollars for a weekend of streams is a bad idea. Re-streams aren't really allowed are they ?:D Would be kinda cool though....
I will not be running ads or even accepting donations. This will be out of the kindness of my own heart.
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On February 15 2012 03:55 Coal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:54 Gheed wrote:On February 15 2012 03:52 JohnSmithy631 wrote:
I have a solution. I will pay 20$. FOR ALL OF YOU. I will purchase MLG and stream it for all of you :D
I'll post my stream on MLG weekend.
John This is yet another reason why 20 dollars for a weekend of streams is a bad idea. Re-streams aren't really allowed are they ?:D Would be kinda cool though....
It would be kinda fun to see
MajorLeagueGaming - 2500 viewers
JohnSmithy631 - 33000 viewers
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EPT
