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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 15 2012 00:16 Crownlol wrote:
Wow look at you people. I'd probably have paid up to $35 for upping the quality of the entertainment and legitimizing the industry. Until you're willing to part with a *tiny* sum of money, progaming will still be relegated to jokes and basements.
The ONLY way to mainstream eSports is with money. Our money. This is the first step. Soon there's an eESPN, barcrafts everywhere, and gaming is actually cool in the mainstream community.
Frankly, the negative reaction to this is only indicative to the internet community's desire to expect something for nothing at every turn.
Something for nothing? People are willing to play but.there is this little thing called competition.
Let's see. Here we have MLG arena, something completely new goes for 3days for 20dollar.
On the other hand we have GSL, a tested and working model that goes on for 3months for 15 gsl light, 25 gsl premium.
Not only it's longer, tested and works, contains better players but its way longer.
Now tell me why i should even think about giving my money to MLG when i can't even see if i like it for free on a lower quality.
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The price seems a little high to me, considering that a lot of the games will be cast by second/third-string casters. I won't be subscribing because I'm still annoyed about MLG's handling of silver league memberships, but I think the move to PPV is good in concept. It will be interesting to look at the VODs and see if they brought the quality to support the price they're asking. I hope so.
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On February 15 2012 00:32 Vadrigar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:02 LoNeLyTrOoPeR wrote:
Unlike probably 90% of the people posting in this thread, I have a job. $20 is not a lot people. It's $1 per hour of good entertainment. MLG has also stepped up from 2011, so it's probably going to be a lot better. I'll gladly be paying for this. Oh watch out we have a badass with a job over here. I'm pretty sure a lot more people in here have jobs. I do and I won't pay. $20 isn't a lot agreed, but you know 0 is less than 20. Assembly wins. gg
This whole argument about "$20 is nothing" is just completely dumb. This is not about the absolute cost, but about the cost relative to other similar offerings.
GomTV charges for VOD access and high quality streams. They have an amazing production quality and Tastosis casting. But they still manage to have free live streams.
The most important thing though is that a GSL light ticket is $14.99. This includes the amazing total of 194 very high quality matches (max 448 sets).
Now, MLG is a 3 days event that won't attract the very best korean. And they charge more than the GSL for less matches.
I mean, looks like people really want SC2 to become a business. One of the first rule of business is that if you charge more than a competitor you a) have a better quality of offering b) have a better quantity of offering c) are a charity. I don't think MLG has any of those.
I'm not really sure how this will turn out for MLG. I hope they reconsider this decision or at least put some other offerings on the table. They should have a free low quality live stream with ads and some other offering at 5$-10$.
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Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
What a real shame that is. MLG knew this would be an unpopular decision. But somebody has to man up and start monetising esports, and frankly if MLG can't do it, then who the hell can?
Please, just think of all the great content MLG has given us last year alone. This is the hour when your support will count the most. If this event succeeds, then esports will grow, it is as simple as that. Just this once we need to prove we are willing to part with our cash to support our hobby, just like fans of every other sport are willing to do on a far more routine and more expensive basis.
If you can afford the $20, and you don't spend it, then as melodramatic as it may sound, you are killing esports. MLG really stuck their heads out on this one, there is no way all this bad PR is worth the measly amount they will earn from this event, and the loss in ad revenue may even hurt them. But they understand better than you do what needs to happen for esports to grow.
Reading these threads really makes me wonder if an esport will ever manage to acheive mainstream popularity with such a shortsighted and cheap fanbase. Really, its making me pretty depressed.
Do the right thing guys, or dont complain when in next years time absolutely nothing has changed.
People will look back on this in years to come, and wonder why the hell such an avid and hardcore fanbase came up with so many excuses not to support their passion. Don't be one of those people.
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On February 14 2012 23:55 Tarotis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 23:53 NewK wrote:On February 14 2012 23:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On February 14 2012 23:36 Munchkin wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the the bit about Gold Membership...
I bought it thinking I'd have access to MLG events for the next year.
Maybe I am not reading this right.. but this is not the case anymore?
What exactly did I pay for ...?
Well, at this point it looks like you and I bought tickets that give us access to about half the content MLG will produce in the coming year, assuming the Arena events continue to be produced. No. There's 7 arena events and 4 pro circuits. So you get acces to 1/3 of the events. MLG is so greedy it's not even funny. I'm never ever buying gold again. DreamHack provides free HD streams with less ads and better production. Sundance is just really greedy and only in it for the money, getting sick of it. I'll stick to watching the vods/LQ streams. You do realize that nobody makes money out of e-sports yet? Things have to change and PPV's are one option, though I prefer seasonal tickets. Still, 20 is too much, I'd be ok with 10
Four months ago, MLG told me that it was willing to provide me with a year worth of content for $30. I considered the proposition reasonable, and I gave them the money. Now they've changed their minds and decided they're only going to actually give me a third (it gets worse every time I learn more) of the content they produce during that time.
If no one is making money from E-Sports, that's not my fault. As far as I knew when I exchanged my money for the next year's MLG content, my subscription fee was enough to pay for my share of the production costs. If MLG didn't charge me enough, that's their fault, and they should have asked me for more money when they sold me their product in the first place.
If you go to a car dealership and sign a contract for a car, they can't then declare that they're going to keep your money, but only deliver four wheels, a motor and a windshield wiper because it turned out that building a car was more expensive than they thought it would be.
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I was perfectly fine with SC/BW's or WC3's proscene.
Proleague delivered me matches everyday, for free. Now i could pay for GSL which gives me english Commentary on top.
What i don't need is some second rate american tourney that is getting all it's credibility by creating hype and flying in koreans to charge for something every other big event is doing for free whiteout telling me that i'm a bad person for not payign them.
Why don't you just pay them a check over a few 1000$, that would support E-Sports even more!
See, the problem i have with your line of thinking:
If E-Sport dies, i have lost basically nothing.
If E-Sport "wins", i have to pay for it in the future?
WTF is wrong whit you? Thats not winning.
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On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
I feel so blessed to have this opportunity to give people my money!
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No more mlg for me alteast, i dont think ppv is the right choise.
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On February 15 2012 00:43 pusmoh wrote:
I'm wondering how many paying viewers MLG will need to make a profit. They state it costs 100k just to bring the players, so they'd need 5k viewers to get that back. I doubt they can more than 1000-2000 viewers for 20$. Well if it's true that they had a $50 million revenue 2011(edit: read the date and appears to have been 2009) they probably spend WAY more money than most think. So wild guess 5k ppv's would be considered a massive failure.
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On February 14 2012 07:54 Dissonance23 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 07:53 fcgog wrote:
what a bad idea to test it when Assembly's on the same weekend I think it is actually the best time to test it, it'll show them if they'll be able to keep a good viewership with PPV while another major tournament is going on.
And it would appear they wont. Sigh... 90% said no? Poor MLG 
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i think we are beginning to see an issue that Americans often have when marketing their products to non-Americans.
Money's purpose and essence are simply viewed differently by Americans than most others on the planet. And Sundance's American bias in this area is starting to show.
without ever having these exact words to express it this is how most American's view money
money has an exalted or revered position in American culture
so when Sundance talks about "pouring money into SC2" its from a perspective many non-Americans do not fully grasp.
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On February 15 2012 00:46 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:40 True_Spike wrote:
If the stream is free it doesn't mean the organisation doesn't earn anything; There's ad revenue etc. In this sense it's never *free*- even though you don't pay anything yourself, as a viewer you are the source of income. Nobody has ever been entertained for free in any SC2 event so far. When people say free for the consumer they are obviously referring to the consumer's point of the view. If the consumer doesn't pay anything, it's free. That's kind of the definition of the word.
You don't *pay* anything, but you do give something back in return, willingly or not. It's a misconception to believe that a free stream is a display of generosity on part of the organizer - the tournament needs you, the viewer, to stay afloat, whereas you will do just fine without it. PPV is okay when you offer something the competition does not, because the price can be somehow justified by most - but the viewership will drop nonetheless causing your ad revenue to shrink and that, in turn, jeopardizes future ad / sponsorship deals. MLG not only spat in the face of current subscribers, it also set the price tag way too high for a semi-interesting tournament that only the NA audience can fully appreciate. Not to mention that a different, perhaps an even bigger event is being hosted on the very same day - and it's not PPV.
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On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
What a real shame that is. MLG knew this would be an unpopular decision. But somebody has to man up and start monetising esports, and frankly if MLG can't do it, then who the hell can?
Please, just think of all the great content MLG has given us last year alone. This is the hour when your support will count the most. If this event succeeds, then esports will grow, it is as simple as that. Just this once we need to prove we are willing to part with our cash to support our hobby, just like fans of every other sport are willing to do on a far more routine and more expensive basis.
If you can afford the $20, and you don't spend it, then as melodramatic as it may sound, you are killing esports. MLG really stuck their heads out on this one, there is no way all this bad PR is worth the measly amount they will earn from this event, and the loss in ad revenue may even hurt them. But they understand better than you do what needs to happen for esports to grow.
Reading these threads really makes me wonder if an esport will ever manage to acheive mainstream popularity with such a shortsighted and cheap fanbase. Really, its making me pretty depressed.
Do the right thing guys, or dont complain when in next years time absolutely nothing has changed.
People will look back on this in years to come, and wonder why the hell such an avid and hardcore fanbase came up with so many excuses not to support their passion. Don't be one of those people.
Unfortunately I will have to pass on this. I don't see how that means I am 'killing esports'. I don't mind paying for SC2. I have MLG gold pass, the year pass for GSL, and I have bought both seasons of NASL. This price seems too high for the amount of content. That is a whole season of NASL or a GSL, not to mention I already payed for a year of MLG Gold. :/
I will gladly pay to see high quality StarCraft 2, but I have limits on what I have time for and a limited 'SC2 budget' of sorts.
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On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
What a real shame that is. MLG knew this would be an unpopular decision. But somebody has to man up and start monetising esports, and frankly if MLG can't do it, then who the hell can?
Please, just think of all the great content MLG has given us last year alone. This is the hour when your support will count the most. If this event succeeds, then esports will grow, it is as simple as that. Just this once we need to prove we are willing to part with our cash to support our hobby, just like fans of every other sport are willing to do on a far more routine and more expensive basis.
If you can afford the $20, and you don't spend it, then as melodramatic as it may sound, you are killing esports. MLG really stuck their heads out on this one, there is no way all this bad PR is worth the measly amount they will earn from this event, and the loss in ad revenue may even hurt them. But they understand better than you do what needs to happen for esports to grow.
Reading these threads really makes me wonder if an esport will ever manage to acheive mainstream popularity with such a shortsighted and cheap fanbase. Really, its making me pretty depressed.
Do the right thing guys, or dont complain when in next years time absolutely nothing has changed.
People will look back on this in years to come, and wonder why the hell such an avid and hardcore fanbase came up with so many excuses not to support their passion. Don't be one of those people.
GomTV? I heard they run a decently successful business and until I hear otherwise from them personally I'll continue to believe that. People who think that this move is going to blast SC2 and Esports into the mainstream are naive at best.
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I pay for GSL because it is the best, and it costs me 20 dollars a month for waaaaay more content than one weekend with 5 streams all at once. Not to mention the fact that there is pretty much always a tournament going on for free if I want to watch some starcraft 2
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For me the problem is that there are too many torunaments that requiere PPV,i mean you cant really pay for them all, its a lot of money just for the viewing something you like. For now im okay paying for GSL/GSTL, but im not sure i'll be able to support also 20 bucks for 3 day MLG, and then 10 for that and then 5 for another few tournaments, as much as i would like to its just too damn expensive.
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On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
What a real shame that is. MLG knew this would be an unpopular decision. But somebody has to man up and start monetising esports, and frankly if MLG can't do it, then who the hell can?
Please, just think of all the great content MLG has given us last year alone. This is the hour when your support will count the most. If this event succeeds, then esports will grow, it is as simple as that. Just this once we need to prove we are willing to part with our cash to support our hobby, just like fans of every other sport are willing to do on a far more routine and more expensive basis.
If you can afford the $20, and you don't spend it, then as melodramatic as it may sound, you are killing esports. MLG really stuck their heads out on this one, there is no way all this bad PR is worth the measly amount they will earn from this event, and the loss in ad revenue may even hurt them. But they understand better than you do what needs to happen for esports to grow.
Reading these threads really makes me wonder if an esport will ever manage to acheive mainstream popularity with such a shortsighted and cheap fanbase. Really, its making me pretty depressed.
Do the right thing guys, or dont complain when in next years time absolutely nothing has changed.
People will look back on this in years to come, and wonder why the hell such an avid and hardcore fanbase came up with so many excuses not to support their passion. Don't be one of those people.
First of all sponsors don't care how much money MLG makes, only how many people are watching and how many times you see their product during the event. Less people watching = less (need for) sponsors.
Everyone is still stuck about it being a low price. I can't calculate how many hours of starcraft I get from my GSL subscription but seeing as one bo3 is about an hour, it's a shitload less than $1/hour with better players, more prestige and a proven concept. The $1/hour also puts a lot more pressure on a tournament to be awesome. Seeing the code A matches this morning, would I have been happy if I had paid a dollar for each of those matches, HELL NO (stream 1 aka foreigner stream  ). Yet this is what MLG is offering and some are defending and some are raging about. There is just very little sense in putting out a product that is inferior at a higher price. And two wrongs does NOT make a right. Also, please stop with all the guilt tripping, which seems to be people's only card to show when it comes to paying vs. not paying. By not paying we show which way we want starcraft to head for us to keep watching and if you don't think that's the most important thing then I hope you look back at this in a few years and realize how right we were, peace.
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On February 15 2012 00:55 Velr wrote:
I was perfectly fine with SC/BW's or WC3's proscene.
Proleague delivered me matches everyday, for free. Now i could pay for GSL which gives me english Commentary on top.
What i don't need is some second rate american tourney that is getting all it's credibility by creating hype and flying in koreans to charge for something every other big event is doing for free whiteout telling me that i'm a bad person for not payign them.
Why don't you just pay them a check over a few 1000$, that would support E-Sports even more!
See, the problem i have with your line of thinking:
If E-Sport dies, i have lost basically nothing.
If E-Sport "wins", i have to pay for it in the future?
WTF is wrong whit you? Thats not winning.
I agree with most of what you said but please note that MLG doesn't call you a bad person for not paying them.
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On February 15 2012 00:56 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:52 Prochainezo wrote:
Wow so many people here don't realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Finally after a year of hoping that Starcraft would explode as an esport, an opportunity comes along where we can prove that it can be monetised and can be a sustainable bussiness that will have real profits (and not just free stream viewers) to show to bigger sponsors and secure larger investment... and you guys can't justify $1/hour of content.
I feel so blessed to have this opportunity to give people my money!
Yup, this fanbase is retarded. No wonder nobody is making any money. I wonder if you could run a million dollar company getting $0 injected from such a large portion of your hardcore fanbase. Infact, I challenge you to think of one sport that doesn't rely on people happily buy entry tickets/merchandise/food and drink on site to support themselves.
Until all you people realise this is the real world, and millions of dollars doesn't just grow on trees, then starcraft will never get anywhere.
I'll say it again, you guys are so shortsighted it hurts.
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EPT
