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On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway).
I've played since release up to August, I never once thought my opponents were cheating but when I read a thread about someone losing to maphack on TL forum, it started making me second guess all my loses for some time and throwing out false accusations in frustration over losing. But as a Zerg you must scout/adapt constantly, spread creep and gain map control from the start to the end, so I stopped considering map-hack as an advantage and since I also have the impression that it is very rarely used by "good/capable" players, I don't consider it a problem or a source of frustration anymore.
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On February 19 2012 18:47 Enema wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 18:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On February 19 2012 17:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
I don't get why you people stop playing below top Masters level though. Cheeses are equivalent to free wins, which allows you to play better players that don't cheese.
Unless your skill level doesn't permit you to block cheeses, in which case you would probably lose every single game against skilled macro players. There are lots of builds that take close to 0 skill to execute but will give you free wins vs a lot of normal openings. It's stupid. Protoss allins are the worst (literally does not take any skill what so ever to execute mass gateway builds, just warpin and force field the bunkers and wait for terran to die/win depending on what build the terran picked), but terran and zerg allins aren't exactly brimming with skill requirement either. Zerg here That's exactly the problem i have when I play protoss. I'm not the highest rated player ever (around 1.1k last season) but no matter what i do vs Protoss no matter what i do, no matter what they scout, they try to kill me with zealot voidray or immortal sentry 9/10 times and it's so hard to hold these pushes compared to executing them. It seems like protoss players arent even aware when they should attack you with what build. Weither i go fast 3th or no 3th at all the same pushs come yet i'm still unable to hold them in certain situations (which might explain why they do them) but please it cant be right that a race can play like that
Great post imo. On not 'that pro' level playing as protoss is much easier than playing as zerg (zerg na protoss player here). I think it's ridiculous how easy wins can toss get in PvZ @ casual level. Just build army do 1a and ff - gg.
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i cant follow most of the complaints here. 2rax, banshees and voidrays are imo very rare on ladder. i didnt play fora few weeks but i started with season 6, i played like 30 games (Zv*) and i had only one 1basing opponent in zvt or zvp (dt rush who caught me completly offguard cause i didnt scout his natural and got a blind 3rd^^). zvz is a different story ofc, 1base baneling is quite common there
every zvt was a macrogame in the zvps they always tried to apply gateway pressure but the took a 3rd behind that.
imo ladder is quite nice atm, maybe people want to give the new maps a try and when they realize they suck (the players, not the maps^^) they blame the maps again and try to cheese cause they cant win macro games^^
high diamond/low master EU opponents btw
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On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway).
Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once.
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I absolutly and totally dont get he opinions onf most people in this thread.
I personaly dont ladder 1v1 as much as before, mainly because I have no time due my work and my clan.
Work is very exhausting and I spend a decent amount of time supporting my clan.
So often I want to ladder 1v1, but I am simply to exhausted to play even at a decent skill level.
So I play custom 1v1 or teamgames for the lols or jsut to keep mechanics at least a little bit working.
Stuff said I absolutly dont get:
"I dont ladder much because of Bnet 0.2"
Well, imo not beeing able to choose the map and the matchup (jsut like in tournaments btw) is helping your overall skilllevel.
Also, imagine you could choose the map you 1v1 ladder on....1Zerg favoured, 1 Terran favoured, and 1 Protoss favoured and noone will ever find a match to play....
Thats what custom games are for. I admit the interface for this isnt the best (completly different topic).
But I dont get the "missing clan support" here either...My clan (eXe) got a chatroom (in sc2) and a TeamSpeak-server....so whats the problem with still finding people....well, back to topic:
"I dont aldder because of cheese"
If you loose to stupid cheese....your opponent played better. Why? Because he even managed to win with "stupid" cheese. Train, get better and then beat the cheese. Working at getting yorself/your build cheeseproof is also fun.
And to me this seems like macro-players stop laddering because of the cheesers, then other macro-players stop, because of a higher % of cheesers and so on. If you wanna play amcro on ladder...do it (I also do it). Then maybe even more people will restart macro on ladder. But "I dont macro on ladder, because noone else does either" is stupid.
"I dont ladder because of XvX mirrormatchups"
Well...I play Zerg and I love ZvZ. I also love ZvT and ZvP. If you play a race and dont like all matchups, then why do you play that race? I work hard at getting better and understand more of ZvZ. Its very frustrating to lose to people playing absolute randomly (random droning, random attacks, random fastmutas ignoring what opponent does). I get angry at myself for losing against people not even trying to understand the matchup. So what do I do? I train more and play it more....
"I dont 1v1 because I hata losing"
Oh, dont even get me started here. I haaaate losing.....very, very, very much.
Still, I jsut decided : the only thing worse than losing is not playing-.-
Winning isnt all, losing is nothing....but not playing is failing!
Like I mentioned at the beginning, I may sound like someone laddering hardcore....sadly I am not.
Work, clan, family and friends keep me very, very busy / exhausted.I would be very happy havingmore time/energy to ladder....so jsut play and dont qq guys.....
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On February 19 2012 20:17 VoO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway). Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once.
It's hard to tell whether those numbers are reliable or not. Perhaps the distributors has an interest in increasing the counter to boost sales, since a high counter will urge a sense of comfort making the customer think "Ohh 10.000 people have bought or is using this, so it must be risk-free" or whatever.
Edit: If your estimates are true (I'm not saying they aren't, just being skeptic), then I would consider qutting my job and developing hacks full time since 20 percent of ~1 million x 10-30 dollars is a lucrative business for a few weeks of work 
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On February 19 2012 20:24 dehdar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:17 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway). Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once. It's hard to tell whether those numbers are reliable or not. Perhaps the distributors has an interest in increasing the counter to boost sales, since a high counter will urge a sense of comfort making the customer think "Ohh 10.000 people have bought or is using this, so it must be risk-free" or whatever. Edit: If your estimates are true (I'm not saying they aren't, just being skeptic), then I would consider qutting my job and developing hacks full time since 20 percent of ~1 million x 10-30 dollars is a lucrative business for a few weeks of work
There is a major developer who sells his hacks but of course he doesn't have these numbers. However, there are files which needed to be downloaded by registration which could be kind of indicative. Furthermore, these hacks are completely undetectable due to the hilarious bad design of SC2.
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On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
*shortened for readability*
My Theory:
First of all, I'm sorry for having been so longwinded... I've wasted enough of your time, so I'll make this very short.
The numbers/data collecting is either bugged or has always been bugged. There is simply no solid/reasonable explanation of how a gaming population can decrease over 90 percent from one season to the other. Either SC2 has always had only around 300k-400k players, which would deem the statistics from season 1, 2, 3, 4 wrong or the statistics from season 5 is either based on another source or simply, wrong/flawed.
I think you miss the big part that never made it on the ladder, or only tried it for a bit then stopped.
Lots of people like me bought it originally for the story mode and maybe play the game a bit online.
Lots bought the game played the story then moved on to the next game.
And they expalin the big drop.
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i still play a lot, the thrill of playing someone famous never goes away
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On February 19 2012 20:34 VoO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:24 dehdar wrote:On February 19 2012 20:17 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway). Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once. It's hard to tell whether those numbers are reliable or not. Perhaps the distributors has an interest in increasing the counter to boost sales, since a high counter will urge a sense of comfort making the customer think "Ohh 10.000 people have bought or is using this, so it must be risk-free" or whatever. Edit: If your estimates are true (I'm not saying they aren't, just being skeptic), then I would consider qutting my job and developing hacks full time since 20 percent of ~1 million x 10-30 dollars is a lucrative business for a few weeks of work There is a major developer who sells his hacks but of course he doesn't have these numbers. However, there are files which needed to be downloaded by registration which could be kind of indicative. Furthermore, these hacks are completely undetectable due to the hilarious bad design of SC2.
Can you elaborate on that? I thought, for the most part, SC2 is cheat free? How is it undetectable and WHY THE FU does nobody cry out to blizzard for a fix?
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On February 19 2012 21:12 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:34 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 20:24 dehdar wrote:On February 19 2012 20:17 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway). Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once. It's hard to tell whether those numbers are reliable or not. Perhaps the distributors has an interest in increasing the counter to boost sales, since a high counter will urge a sense of comfort making the customer think "Ohh 10.000 people have bought or is using this, so it must be risk-free" or whatever. Edit: If your estimates are true (I'm not saying they aren't, just being skeptic), then I would consider qutting my job and developing hacks full time since 20 percent of ~1 million x 10-30 dollars is a lucrative business for a few weeks of work There is a major developer who sells his hacks but of course he doesn't have these numbers. However, there are files which needed to be downloaded by registration which could be kind of indicative. Furthermore, these hacks are completely undetectable due to the hilarious bad design of SC2. Can you elaborate on that? I thought, for the most part, SC2 is cheat free? How is it undetectable and WHY THE FU does nobody cry out to blizzard for a fix?
i wasnt aware there was widespread hacking either.. i call BS on the 20%, ive played over 4000 ladder games, and id say ive faced 1-2 hackers. The TL hacker database never got over 10-20 people per season
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On February 19 2012 21:12 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:34 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 20:24 dehdar wrote:On February 19 2012 20:17 VoO wrote:On February 19 2012 19:53 Drowsy wrote:On February 19 2012 19:32 dehdar wrote:
Maphack:
As a developer, who has made private hacks (never distributed) to both Aion, Modern Warfare 2 and Starcraft 2 I can tell you this. Making hacks is fun. It can sometimes be a lot more fun than playing games. Using hacks though will kill every enthusiasm, adrenaline rush and excitment of a game. Once you get to the stage where you're not facing any competition, then you get bored and move on.
I won't lie. In Aion I made a very advanced bot, which I used for around a month. I realised I was paying for a game that my bot was playing, not myself, so I quit.
In Modern Warfare 2 I had a blast. However every now and then my killstreaks would end due to people using aimbot/walhack. I got frustrated and started googling for cheats. I quickly realised that the only reliable cheats were being sold... So I thought to myself, hey I'm a developer, I should be able to make my own. I was lucky enough to find an open source Modern Warfare 2 hack that I started contributing to and modifying for my own use.
The hack has no dependencies to the Modern Warfare 2 process. I didn't inject dlls, I didn't modify existing assemblies. All I did was read offsets from the current Modern Warfare 2 process to find player locations, then rendered the players as boxes on top of my Modern Warfare 2 game... In other words my hack was 100 percent undetectable and I used it obviously hoping I'd get banned, because I couldn't believe how blind Eye Infinity was to all the hacks that were used. After playing around 40-50 games in a row where I'd end each game with a 25 killstreak followed by a nuke, I got fed up and quit.
In Starcraft 2 I never used any hacks. As a developer what thrives me, is creativity, enhancing my skills and testing what I'm capable of. So when I first heard of people complaining about maphacks my first thought was, no way... My second thought was, I need to try that. It took me less than 2 hours (15-20) lines of code to develop a program that would disable FoW.
I had a dilemma though. I knew cheating would kill the game for me. I was also well aware that unlike any other game, people invest time and money, fully dedicate themselves to make a living in SC2, so I felt like I would damage their livelihood by cheating, so I didn't. To test if I could disable FoG war in a ladder match, I joined 3 1vs1 matches, disabled FoW and lost all 3 games on purpose. After that I deleted the source code and the compiled assemblies, but strange enough I didn't get any satisfaction or sense of accomplishment as I did with my bot in Aion or aim/wallhack in MW2... quite the contrary I got this creepy feeling thinking to myself... how many people has actually earned their Grand Master title? I also felt angry thinking, how many cheaters I might have engaged when I was trying to make it to Grand Master?
Interesting... that's actually one of the few things I've never had complaints about. I really rarely get any indication that my opponents are mhing and I don't think its widespread at all. I remember it plagued war3 all the way from release to the middle of tft and made it really hard to take the game seriously as a competitive endeavour. I bet the vast majority of GMs do not hack. + I play protoss and even if you see my 2 base push coming I just a move and win and there's nothing you can do about it (according to my zerg opponents anyway). Believe me as a guy who wrote hacks for SC2 for fun (never used or distributed them), maphacks are really widespread. From the download numbers you can estimate that at least 20% of all active players used at least a maphack once. It's hard to tell whether those numbers are reliable or not. Perhaps the distributors has an interest in increasing the counter to boost sales, since a high counter will urge a sense of comfort making the customer think "Ohh 10.000 people have bought or is using this, so it must be risk-free" or whatever. Edit: If your estimates are true (I'm not saying they aren't, just being skeptic), then I would consider qutting my job and developing hacks full time since 20 percent of ~1 million x 10-30 dollars is a lucrative business for a few weeks of work There is a major developer who sells his hacks but of course he doesn't have these numbers. However, there are files which needed to be downloaded by registration which could be kind of indicative. Furthermore, these hacks are completely undetectable due to the hilarious bad design of SC2. Can you elaborate on that? I thought, for the most part, SC2 is cheat free? How is it undetectable and WHY THE FU does nobody cry out to blizzard for a fix?
because most of the time you did not even notice that your enemy use maphacks.
there are production tab hack where he only see your production. Hard to tell if he cheats or have good game sense.
Thats the problem, we dont even know how many guys cheat in 1v1, but if you see the post counts and dl nr in those forums it must be ALOT.
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Nah, i didn't play 2 last seasons because community sux.
Even if I win ( i was silver/gold/diamond ) people still bashed me.. Ohhh you played so many games In last season and you are still in plat... And i used to play like 3-4 games a day, 10 at weekend. People are BM all the time.
Total waste of time.
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I mean I could not say I ever faced a hacker to be honest, simply because my game sense is not as developed as I only play vs plat/dia. But just the possibility of facing one (of possibly many if I trust your claim) ruins ladder for me. That´s what ruinined wc3 ladder as well for me(thankfully just after many years of much much fun). I do not want this to repeat - especially not this early since not even the second part of Sc2, HotS, is out yet.
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On February 19 2012 11:04 Ace1123 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 10:19 NexUmbra wrote:On February 19 2012 08:25 petzergling wrote:
sc2 isnt fun, 90% of ur games are against really stupid ppl. when u win u dont feel accomplished, and when u lose you feel like shit Absolutely second this. A lot of times I win because my opponent warped in 8 dt's when he had no units or because i had 3/3 upgrades and my opponent had 0/0. A couple of hours ago I lost a PvP because my opponent had a hidden base and then got maxed and just crushed me... Unless you beat an actual good player then thats cool Isn't it your job to scout and find hidden expansions? I also believe that loosing to an actual good player is cool because you will be a lot better.
I didn't mean that he was the bad player though :3
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On February 19 2012 03:45 seansye wrote:
Most custom games are absolute shit compared to Brood war UMS games...
indeed, if you wanted a break in BW, you just played some of the extremely awesome custom maps available (i generally rate them above WC3 custom maps, though wc3 also has awesome maps because of more possibilites). in SC2, you play stuff like FFA or 4v4, because there just aren't too many funmaps (because you can't see them)
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On February 19 2012 19:54 Humposaurus wrote:
Because all my matches are either mass void ray or mass banshee... which gets old xD
+1
Sometimes things go your way and you get a free win, which isn't fun either. Problem with sc2 has been discussed to death but people here don't seem to understand that getting free wins isn't all that fun...
Don't kid yourself into thinking you're playing the hardest game and haters are just sore losers.
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On February 19 2012 21:26 frozenrb wrote:
Nah, i didn't play 2 last seasons because community sux.
Even if I win ( i was silver/gold/diamond ) people still bashed me.. Ohhh you played so many games In last season and you are still in plat... And i used to play like 3-4 games a day, 10 at weekend. People are BM all the time.
Total waste of time.
That's why you set it so only friends can message you, then you bring up the player menu in-game. It's annoying yeah, but avoidable most of the time :S
I didn't play a single game last season and only just got done doing placement matches for this season but I plan on getting back into SC2. All I can say is the map pool is easily the best the ladder has had yet. No map is fucking horrible in my mind, which is a nice change. I will probably end up playing the most games in a season yet.
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stopped playing sc2 because of blizzards patching philosophy, they removed fun strategies because the game was not intended to be played like that LOL
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On February 19 2012 22:14 Enki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 21:26 frozenrb wrote:
Nah, i didn't play 2 last seasons because community sux.
Even if I win ( i was silver/gold/diamond ) people still bashed me.. Ohhh you played so many games In last season and you are still in plat... And i used to play like 3-4 games a day, 10 at weekend. People are BM all the time.
Total waste of time. That's why you set it so only friends can message you, then you bring up the player menu in-game. It's annoying yeah, but avoidable most of the time :S I didn't play a single game last season and only just got done doing placement matches for this season but I plan on getting back into SC2. All I can say is the map pool is easily the best the ladder has had yet. No map is fucking horrible in my mind, which is a nice change. I will probably end up playing the most games in a season yet.
I feel alone in the game sory...
Yea but the problem is that all of my friend's quitted SC2. I posted this already but i will say it again.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313318¤tpage=6#116
50% win ratio isn't entertaining. At the end of the day you lost games. Bad day you lost 5-6 games in the row.
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EPT
