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On February 19 2012 12:04 taran wrote:
For me the mechanical skills required at high masters made me focus too much on something other than having 'fun'. It was all about how well you scouted and macroed and the game's tend to leave you exhausted. Not that playing serious is a problem in itself - it's just that I never felt like there was anything to gain after that and the drive to play was lost.
This is why WC3 was a lot more successful in the fun department (to me?). How you controlled your heroes determined the outcome of the game, whereas Starcraft 2 stresses you out with its very difficult mechanics.
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I think its the stuff outside the games---chat (seriously between games I want to join a random chat), clans (non-existent in bnet), custom games (I want to label my custom game 1v1 plat, or 3v3 fun).... really there is nothing to do on b-net but to play quick match
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I think we should add another option to the poll.
"Get all-ined every game"
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On February 19 2012 10:31 chadissilent wrote:
You think good players didn't beat bad players to get good? Everyone started at the same point, the cream is just rising to the top. All I see in this thread is a ton of excuses and no accountability.
Accountability for what? No one has an obligation to play a video game they don't want to, regardless of the reason. It might not be a reason that would stop YOU from playing, but that isn't really the point.
As for me personally, I still ladder, but it is all I can do just to barely tread water at this point. As someone with a very busy schedule, and not too much time for leisure, Starcraft 2 is a tough sell on some nights. I do enjoy the game, but it is exhausting and often times frustrating. That isn't bad in and of itself, but when your entire day is exhausting and frustrating, it is hard to will yourself to log in some nights when you know it might just add more to the pile. Here is the thing you need to realize about the "accountability" part - It doesn't matter if it is "my fault" to me if I got frustrated. Yes, maybe I totally fucked up and played like shit and THAT is why I am frustrated. But I *still* often log out of battle.net feeling shitty. Regardless of "whose fault" that is - it isn't something I'm always in the mood to risk, and I think a hell of a lot of people feel that way.
I know on a forum like TL where we have an ultra self selected community of competitive players we can easily underplay this because we (even those of us who play less, like myself) always end up being drawn back in - maybe due to an innate competitive nature, maybe because we like strategy games, maybe because we just can't stand failure and NEED to get back in and try again - probably some combination of all of that. HOWEVER, "the ladder" is made up of all SC2 players who hit that find match button ever, and its pretty easy to see how a lot of people are going to be driven away from doing it - it is a way of playing that doesn't necessarily fulfill the goals for a lot of people's leisure time. Don't worry about fault, don't worry about good or bad at the game, don't worry about league, or excuses. Bottom line is - SC2 ladder isn't for everyone, and even the people who do like it can easily get drawn to more pleasant ways to spend their limited leisure time.
Edit: I want to add one more thing as well - the lack of a distinction between practice matches and competition for the majority of ladder players. Because I know literally 0 people in real life who play this game, and because my schedule for when I can play is relatively unpredictable, it is very hard for me to regularly practice in custom games. Whenever I've tried to join gaming communities or chat channels with the idea of practicing in customs, it just never pans out. People don't actually do it, maybe they aren't around when I am, etc. So, I have to hit the ladder, and there is always the pressure there to play to play every game to win because that is the only competitive format I will ever have. Lets be realistic - I am a diamond player and if I ever hit Master's it will really be a miracle I'm never going to play in a tournament, the ladder is the beginning and the end of competition and all things related to competitive SC2 for me. If I want to "practice" on the ladder, I can't do it efficiently because I can't dictate the matchup, and even if I could, I can't practice the same thing over and over and over the way you need to to REALLY improve. Finally, I feel pressure to always play to win in that moment rather than work on something like mechanics or builds that might get me killed, but are "good for me" in the long run. I really think the merging of actual competition and practice games for the average ladder player really hurts, because that is literally the only way I have to find players of an equal skill and compare myself to them. But it is also the only way I have to reliably practice against people of a similar skill as well, and frankly playing to learn and playing to win are very different things, which Battle.net 2.0 does not facilitate very well.
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On February 19 2012 13:10 Blario wrote:
I think we should add another option to the poll.
"Get all-ined every game"
Yeah this is why I don't play a ton. Like I want to play long macro games and instead I just hold off all-ins or mass void rays or mass cloak bansees. Today I got 6 pooled 4 times (though it is ZvZ and no one like playing it), 4 gated 3 times, 3 raxed, and 8 gate Dark Templared
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On February 19 2012 12:27 Makman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 12:04 taran wrote:
For me the mechanical skills required at high masters made me focus too much on something other than having 'fun'. It was all about how well you scouted and macroed and the game's tend to leave you exhausted. Not that playing serious is a problem in itself - it's just that I never felt like there was anything to gain after that and the drive to play was lost. This is why WC3 was a lot more successful in the fun department (to me?). How you controlled your heroes determined the outcome of the game, whereas Starcraft 2 stresses you out with its very difficult mechanics.
Well they're both the same in the general sense they are both RTS, but the hero difference is what mainly sets them apart in my opinion. When I used to play WC3 ladder a lot, the game revolved around which hero you picked and how you used it. For example: if you were Orc and wanted to early harass, you built an altar and got a blademaster to kill enemy workers and escape with windwalk. You didn't have to be on top with macro to play well either. So I could focus a lot more on microing, which is in my honest opinion, easier to do than in SC2 where things have to be done so precisely if you want to win. I honestly did have more fun playing WC3 ladder than SC2, and playing team games were really fun. Even put into random 4v4s, you could (most of the time) cooperate with your allies well and configure an army so we knew who built what in a matter of a minute or less. I don't get that same feeling in team battles with SC2, almost in the sense that public team games is just everyone playing like a 1v1 style. With WC3, I didn't get that. Additionally, the league ranking system that SC2 employs generates stress on players I believe. They have anxiety of losing, and use cheesy all-in methods practically every game. This perhaps, in my opinion, sets back some of those players from experiencing more aspects of the game that make you grow. I'm not say WC3 didn't have their types of all-ins, but I certainly didn't get the feeling that if I lost I was going to be depressed or anything. I just played it because I knew I was going to have a fun time, and didn't have to worry a lot about ranks and whatnot because they didn't matter much.
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Stresses of life and desire to ladder until I got better. Made top 500 for a few weeks after release, got lazy as masters league was introduced--plateaued after that. Some of the good development after a high plateau point is dedicated practice on specific areas, and often boring practice. So now I play goofy 2v2 and 3v3 and other games, merely placement matching to masters each season 1v1. Ain't a disease and ain't even a big problem worth addressing. It's just normal life cycle.
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i still play the game but the majority of my friends stopped in order to concentrate on their studies and stuff like that.
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starcraft 2 just isn't fun is the equivalence of getting all-ined every game on the poll
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There is some strange stuff in this Bnet.F.e u cant join a game u want or see it previously.You press "join game" and expect u find what you arer looking for.Some times I only wanna play TvT,ZvT or PvP but its so difficult...If people could create games and put the name as it was in BW...Would be easier to find somebody to play and join games you need.
And just dont understand why I must LOG OUT any time i dont like the game lobby.Why CANT QUIT??No sense!!!They force me to accept.How is this possible?
And ladder is not stuff you mayba want to do.You wanna improve your ZvZ but cant do it on ladder.You need practice partner,but so difficult to find.Many people cant stop laddering because of losing points,such as GM do.So really is difficult to practice,and when you go ladder 90% no macro games: cheese,1 base allins,2 base allins,rush...
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For me, it's the difficulty of scouting in early game as protoss and losing to a lot of stupid shit.
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On February 19 2012 12:34 My_Fake_Plastic_Luv wrote:
I think its the stuff outside the games---chat (seriously between games I want to join a random chat), clans (non-existent in bnet), custom games (I want to label my custom game 1v1 plat, or 3v3 fun).... really there is nothing to do on b-net but to play quick match
I think this is completely the problem. Sc2 interface forces you to really ladder or leave. Chatting is just a pain the ass. The game forces you to be alone. No clan system at all, just chat rooms. No shared replays to even talk about games that you had and show people. And no tournaments within the system.
All you can really do is play to get ur ladder rank better and show off to ur friends, and even that within its self is broken cause it heavily rewards people that massively play.
Could you imagine a game where you could join and have separate window for clan to see how everyone is doing within the clan and when next clanwar is and who wants to play custom.
Could you image a game where you could watch replays together and create strategies together.
Could you image a game where tournaments were within the game and you could show off ur tournament wins instead of just ladder wins.
If sc2 had these things I don't think there would of been such a dip of players in sc2. People just got bored of it, and it doesn't give any to do other then ladder...
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Stopped playing due to :-
Poor map pool, which encourages crappy 1 base all in play\cheese ( This looks to be changing but is it too late)
Poor in game variety between the 3 races. ie a lot of the units are completly useless and not even worth building which forces the players into 1 play style so you end up playing the same tactics every game. Terran super agression , Zerg sits and defends for 10 mins and Protoss heads for the 200 supply death ball
The game may be balenced but its as dull as fuck and a poor spectator sport to watch as well.
Hoping HoTS will change it up and bring some much needed variety into the game
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I don't get why you people stop playing below top Masters level though. Cheeses are equivalent to free wins, which allows you to play better players that don't cheese.
Unless your skill level doesn't permit you to block cheeses, in which case you would probably lose every single game against skilled macro players.
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I just don't find the game very interesting or fun to play. I gave up trying to get to GM and started doing troll builds as random for a while. Now I only watch streams when I'm bored.
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On February 19 2012 14:58 Apack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 13:10 Blario wrote:
I think we should add another option to the poll.
"Get all-ined every game" Yeah this is why I don't play a ton. Like I want to play long macro games and instead I just hold off all-ins or mass void rays or mass cloak bansees. Today I got 6 pooled 4 times (though it is ZvZ and no one like playing it), 4 gated 3 times, 3 raxed, and 8 gate Dark Templared
LOL sounds like a tipical aweseme ladder day
im curious bout the 4 gates tho, wat div are you?
EDIT: also** to the ppl sayint that the micro macro (multitasking) is hard and makes it less fun to play, i guess you never played bw b/c bw was alot more demanding interms of mutitasking
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Face it, half the people have maphack or another cheat and the other half plays only cheese or all-in. Plus there are only kids and flamers in this game. It is such a stark contrast to the community picture propagated by casters and the people outside of the game.
My ladder day so far:
7 TvP (a-click roflcopter, I own you with 50 APM)
3 TvZ (hurr lings lings you mad?)
6 ZvZ (who cheeses the best?)
3 ZvP (50 APM all-in on 1 or 2 base)
1 ZvT (rofl terran, you should just leave)
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Laddering becomes too repetitive (and boring) and there is no social aspect in Bnet. It just gets too dull to ladder.
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As usual you have to wonder if blizzard is aware of the issue. Have they ever acknowledged they lacking social features of bnet 2.0?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 19 2012 17:51 ZiegFeld wrote:
I don't get why you people stop playing below top Masters level though. Cheeses are equivalent to free wins, which allows you to play better players that don't cheese.
Unless your skill level doesn't permit you to block cheeses, in which case you would probably lose every single game against skilled macro players.
There are lots of builds that take close to 0 skill to execute but will give you free wins vs a lot of normal openings. It's stupid.
Protoss allins are the worst (literally does not take any skill what so ever to execute mass gateway builds, just warpin and force field the bunkers and wait for terran to die/win depending on what build the terran picked), but terran and zerg allins aren't exactly brimming with skill requirement either.
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EPT
