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On February 14 2012 05:31 Lakona wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
Because, as you can see by all the posts in this thread, people who used to commit stopped committing, usually because of some reason they made up in their head like "everyone cheeses/all ins" or "the maps are stupid" or "the game is imbalanced".
When, in fact, people found improving too difficult and simply gave up. THIS.Oh my god, the attitudes expressed in this thread are pathetic. You fucking pussies. Someone with a genuine passion for the game and a competitor's attitude will think, "Oh, I seem to be getting a lot of allins. Oh well, allins are a legitimate part of the game. Obviously someone much better than me would not be losing to these. It is my fault that I am losing to them and my responsibility to identify my mistakes and correct them in order to improve. This is an excellent opportunity for me to practice defending allins and grow as a player." A whiny bitch with a loser's attitude will think, "WAHHHH! Too many allins! So fucking lame! This is no fun! I don't want to play anymore! Fuck this stupid shit, I fucking quit!" And complaining about the UI? Who gives a fuck? As long as I can press a button and be in a game with someone within a reasonable amount of time, and have some basic way to keep in contact with others, who cares? There are better places to get your needs met if you're looking for a social club. BM can be irritating, but you're just using that as another excuse. The truth is that if you really loved the game, you would just accept it and learn to ignore it like everyone else. People, just admit that you don't enjoy the game because you suck at it and don't have the drive to improve. It's normal. Most people in life are pussies and give up on most shit that they start and then make excuses about it, this game is no different. Just stop acting like it's a problem with the game and not a problem with you.
And this is why less and less people are playing the game, because you have to be elitist and see this as an education to actually play it.
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what I enjoy on SC2 is feeling of improving, feeling of victory after struggling. the majority of players stops laddering because they think they are not improving (enough) or they have no idea how to improve or are lazy or not analytical enough. I strongly believe SC2 client could easily tell the main reasons of defeat and advise improvment in 90 % of cases, summary graphs are useless. It's not hard to detect programatically that you didn't scout banshees soon enough, didn't save scans, had bad army composition, was behind in upgrades, your macro was a lot worse than your opponent's, engaged badly, defended drops badly, failed wall in etc. etc. possibilities are countless. imaging battle.net which hints you replay where similar style/build you faced was beaten! imagine how many players would not give up laddering if they were advised well...
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On February 14 2012 05:47 aiuradun wrote:
yeah i think some other rewards than the profile images would be great, like the LOL Influence points (offc shouldent have anything to do with power and offc not be able to buy it with irl money. but something like that bying diffrent stuff would be pretty cool
but yeah i actually think the lack of community in game have made alot of players run for the hill its only so fun playing on your own getting owned by stuff you don't get.
and really if u play sc2 and don't know anyone all you get is an empty screen with "press here to play"
I don't understand this.
Am I the only person who talk to people after a ladder game if it was a good game or if I'm not sure about something after I lose?
You talk to people, continue talking to people about anything sc2 related, play some customs, watch eachother improve....
Am I really the only one?
On February 14 2012 05:50 polybios wrote:
what I enjoy on SC2 is feeling of improving, feeling of victory after struggling. the majority of players stops laddering because they think they are not improving (enough) or they have no idea how to improve or are lazy or not analytical enough. I strongly believe SC2 client could easily tell the main reasons of defeat and advise improvment in 90 % of cases, summary graphs are useless. It's not hard to detect programatically that you didn't scout banshees soon enough, didn't save scans, had bad army composition, was behind in upgrades, your macro was a lot worse than your opponent's, engaged badly, defended drops badly, failed wall in etc. etc. possibilities are countless. imaging battle.net which hints you replay where similar style/build you faced was beaten! imagine how many players would not give up laddering if they were advised well...
Although I'm not one to go on the side of "stop making the game easier" (ala BW player style), I must say I dislike this idea.
Part of getting good is teaching yourself how to criticize your play, you really can't have the game do this for you.
I don't this as a problem in the lower leagues though, maybe hints based on the build orders in comparison to a master level game with the same build orders.
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On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people.
this is why i quit doing 1v1. a 3rd base is unheard of in masters almost.
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On February 14 2012 05:37 skatblast wrote:
I usually take a break every few months. Im not high level player or anything i just dont think the game is fun after 5 or 6 games a day. I dont mind losing either, i think the ladder system is fine they just need to add daily tournaments, maybe a tourny for every division.
Check out playhem if you haven't already, tournaments for all leagues.
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On February 14 2012 05:51 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 05:47 aiuradun wrote:
yeah i think some other rewards than the profile images would be great, like the LOL Influence points (offc shouldent have anything to do with power and offc not be able to buy it with irl money. but something like that bying diffrent stuff would be pretty cool
but yeah i actually think the lack of community in game have made alot of players run for the hill its only so fun playing on your own getting owned by stuff you don't get.
and really if u play sc2 and don't know anyone all you get is an empty screen with "press here to play" I don't understand this. Am I the only person who talk to people after a ladder game if it was a good game or if I'm not sure about something after I lose? You talk to people, continue talking to people about anything sc2 related, play some customs, watch eachother improve.... Am I really the only one?
I try to do that, not a lot of people are anwsering, a lot less even being nice. x)
Don'(t prevent me from playing the game. I don't play a lot of it because i like other games, but if i can keep myself at a level i like and improving a bit each time i play, i'm happy with that.
I guess the competitor mind set is slowy phasing out in the today average gamer. Competition is fun ! But because of today's games, where everyone should win and have fun people get frustrated.
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Mainly because of Battle.net:
- Lonely and no sense of community.
- No incentive to play, for example play for 3 hours and lose 10 games in a row and you gain nothing except for losing ladder points.
- Can't chill in custom games because the custom games section is so bad
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On February 14 2012 05:54 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 05:51 Clarity_nl wrote:On February 14 2012 05:47 aiuradun wrote:
yeah i think some other rewards than the profile images would be great, like the LOL Influence points (offc shouldent have anything to do with power and offc not be able to buy it with irl money. but something like that bying diffrent stuff would be pretty cool
but yeah i actually think the lack of community in game have made alot of players run for the hill its only so fun playing on your own getting owned by stuff you don't get.
and really if u play sc2 and don't know anyone all you get is an empty screen with "press here to play" I don't understand this. Am I the only person who talk to people after a ladder game if it was a good game or if I'm not sure about something after I lose? You talk to people, continue talking to people about anything sc2 related, play some customs, watch eachother improve.... Am I really the only one? I try to do that, not a lot of people are anwsering, a lot less even being nice. x) Don'(t prevent me from playing the game. I don't play a lot of it because i like other games, but if i can keep myself at a level i like and improving a bit each time i play, i'm happy with that. I guess the competitor mind set is slowy phasing out in the today average gamer. Competition is fun ! But because of today's games, where everyone should win and have fun people get frustrated.
Only need to find like one or two.
I dislike alot of people I meet irl, but that doesn't mean I stop talking to people altogether..... usually.
On February 14 2012 05:55 Highways wrote:
- Can't chill in custom games because the custom games section is so bad
Now THIS I understand. I really wish there was a way to chill in sc2 while still playing sc2.
The way I do this is obs some friends playing some 1v1 customs, but I guess not everyone has this luxury?
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because i get bored of 7 zvz's in a row, ppl cheesing as fuck (someone mentioned that there is no cheese, just very aggressive play...right, i disagree...), calling me this and that just because i built some unit (this is funny actually, but it's boring) and generally retarded ranking system
edit: oh and maybe primary reason is because i'm just casual sc gamer, not wannabe next bonjwa so i don't put much effort in it...this is just for fun for me
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On February 14 2012 05:55 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +A whiny bitch with a loser's attitude will think, "WAHHHH! Too many allins! So fucking lame! This is no fun! I don't want to play anymore! Fuck this stupid shit, I fucking quit!" News just in: People play videogames to have fun! "I want to have fun playing videogames, this isn't fun anymore, so I'm gonna play something else", isn't a whiny attitude, it's an incredibly normal attitude. Some people know they're never going to be pro and simply want to have fun, if they stop finding the game fun then they're gonna stop playing.
That's something that didn't appear that much before.
Videogame were seen much like something to perform in, not a way to only entertain yourself.
Arcade games, first generation PC games, all these games were hard and challenging. The fun was in beating them, not playing them.
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On February 13 2012 23:16 StarBrift wrote:
I can only speak for master league opponents but I think the most prevalent reason for why players at my level stopped playing is that too many people are flipping coins. It's simply not fun to go up against 70%+ 6pools, 4gates, scv all ins etc. Even if you win. Even in top master those things have started to come back. Maybe because alot of serious players stopped laddering.
The other big reason is that the blizzard map pool is getting seriously far away from the progamer map pool. The metagame in pro games simply can't be played on blizzard maps. Especially as a zerg I feel that on the GSL maps I have a good chance to beat both the other races while on blizzard maps they still have a lot of really horribly bad elements on their maps.
They keep on adding maps with rocks in the way of third bases or ridiculously long distances to thirds and they don't understand that this completely destroys zergs chances to play anything but all in coinflip styles. It's so retardedly obvious that rocks ONLY severely affect zerg as terran and protoss WILL have units that can kill those rocks before they need to take it. Forcing zerg to play 2 base vs 2 base has completely ruined the zerg ladder experience on most maps. The only map where zerg can go 3 base vs 2 base safely is antiga and that shit still has gold in the middle and an impossible 4th base.
This has beens aid before but it's absolutely true. Blizzard needs to scrap ALL their maps. They have not produced a single map fit for tournament play save maybe metalopolis which also happens to be the most straightforward boring map ever made and HURDUR it has a gold base in the middle!
I wish blizzard would just fucking swallow the pill and use a mixture of GSL/MLG/IEM/IPL maps that are NOT made by themselves. They design team has shown again and again that they have no understanding of the game on a higher level. I could type up walls of text on every map on how its either imbalanced in favor of zerg or terran or protoss at really crucial and gamebreaking moments but who want's to hear that rant? I also don't feel like typing it up since I know blizzard will ignore it and 50 gold-platinum players will critisize my understanding of the game.
Are we even playing the same game? I'm floating between 900-1100 masters and there's very little cheese at this level. 6 pool is pretty much the only thing I run into with any regularity, and that's maybe 15-20% tops, and it's never game ending in pvz. If you last scout, they're a little bit ahead, if you don't last scout, you're a little bit ahead and the game goes on as standard. It's a flip to see who comes out ahead, but nobody ever wins outright from it. Terrans pretty much never cheese me and do the 1/1/1 (which is not a cheese) about ~20% of the time. Proxy gates/cannon rush in pvp is relatively rare as well.
Blizzard is very clearly trying to make a tournament viable ladder pool. I don't blame them for not wanting to completely cede the mapmaking process to the community. Blizz maps Antiga, Entombed Valley, and Shak Plat have all been used and are currently being used in tournaments, and on top of that they will be bringing in 2 maps from the community which are both totally tournament usable. Even now, with 3 vetoes you can be playing TDA, Metal, Shak Plat, Antiga, and Entombed for a pool in which every single map is used in tournaments. Next season with XNC and Arid gone, every single map will be tournament suitable except for Temple (which is still used in a few like IPL TAC).
And of course all of you people who think you are brilliant macro players who would be rated higher if they could just get past all those devious cheesers are 1000% wrong. You probably have good macro compared to the tards you are losing to, but in absolute terms you would get absolutely crushed in standard games against the people at the rating you believe you should be.
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On February 14 2012 05:58 Kotreb wrote:
because i get bored of 7 zvz's in a row, ppl cheesing as fuck (someone mentioned that there is no cheese, just very aggressive play...right, i disagree...), calling me this and that just because i built some unit (this is funny actually, but it's boring) and generally retarded ranking system
The ranking system is a bit arbitrary, but the ladder system is near perfect. Once you get some games in the ladder system is AMAZING at making you play people around your level (where you go 50% untill you improve).
Of course there is cheese, but in your head you need to say to yourself: "I need to get to the point where I enjoy people cheesing me because it's free ladder points."
Saying: "OMG CHEESERRR!!!" Seems very counter-productive, and I can see why this would make you stop enjoying sc2.
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yup lets face it, SC2 maybe balanced and all that but its just not much fun most of the time. It only really works when you and your opponents playstyle connects and you have a good chance you get an interesting and exciting game. Unfortunatly this rarely happens in ranked and only in custom when you are playing against an opponent who playstyle is familiar. When I won a few matches against higher level opponents than me and didnt feel any accomplishment beating them I decided to uninstall and move on.
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On February 14 2012 05:34 Jermman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 05:31 Lakona wrote:On February 14 2012 04:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
Because, as you can see by all the posts in this thread, people who used to commit stopped committing, usually because of some reason they made up in their head like "everyone cheeses/all ins" or "the maps are stupid" or "the game is imbalanced".
When, in fact, people found improving too difficult and simply gave up. THIS.Oh my god, the attitudes expressed in this thread are pathetic. You fucking pussies. Someone with a genuine passion for the game and a competitor's attitude will think, "Oh, I seem to be getting a lot of allins. Oh well, allins are a legitimate part of the game. Obviously someone much better than me would not be losing to these. It is my fault that I am losing to them and my responsibility to identify my mistakes and correct them in order to improve. This is an excellent opportunity for me to practice defending allins and grow as a player." A whiny bitch with a loser's attitude will think, "WAHHHH! Too many allins! So fucking lame! This is no fun! I don't want to play anymore! Fuck this stupid shit, I fucking quit!" And complaining about the UI? Who gives a fuck? As long as I can press a button and be in a game with someone within a reasonable amount of time, and have some basic way to keep in contact with others, who cares? There are better places to get your needs met if you're looking for a social club. BM can be irritating, but you're just using that as another excuse. The truth is that if you really loved the game, you would just accept it and learn to ignore it like everyone else. People, just admit that you don't enjoy the game because you suck at it and don't have the drive to improve. It's normal. Most people in life are pussies and give up on most shit that they start and then make excuses about it, this game is no different. Just stop acting like it's a problem with the game and not a problem with you. I wish I could sticky this post. Agree completely.
There's nothing wrong with not playing a game you don't find fun. It's a video game. I don't discredit people that want to make it more. In fact I applaud them as the growth of ESPORTS is something I very much desire. But putting down a game you don't want to play anymore doesn't make someone a "pussy." You may find something to be an acceptable part of the game that someone else doesn't.
Plus, as a game gets older, less people will continue playing it. This was true for Starcraft 1 and Warcraft 3. Srarcraft 2 is not the exception.
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Some Pros are not playing 1v1 as much either now a days they mostly practice between themselves and mostly tournament maps.
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On February 14 2012 05:52 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people. this is why i quit doing 1v1. a 3rd base is unheard of in masters almost.
Defending against all ins is very possible or else every game at the pro level would be all in. A masters player should have the mechanics to scout as well as the pros. Scouting is not something that takes Uber high level skill.
also your claim is completely unfound for the percentage of games in masters that are all in, you literally pulled that out of your ass and exaggerated it to the point that it makes your whole statement sound whiny and childish. From my experience playing at masters level, many games go past 2 bases. Only when a player is incompetent at late game do they 2 base all in, and if you are truly the superior player you will just laugh and rack up the free wins.
1v1s are lagging because people always blame someone else or the system for their losses. The game is enjoyable because it takes skill. Hard work is what makes the end result worth something. Defending all ins is part of the game.
However, as many people have pointed out, the reason 1v1s are dying is because there is no camaraderie. It lacks human interaction/ clan interaction like in broodwar where you can keep tabs and compete with friends. It's so hard for a person alone to reach a high level without support of others. That's why it is nearly impossible for a player without the atmosphere of a team house to reach their maximum potential.
I propose that players can organize their own divisions in addition to the randomly assigned divisions on bnet so that they can visually compete with their friends in other divisions. In addition, better bnet 2.0 chat and channels could help player find a sense of community.
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The reason holding me back from laddering is the match matching system is just too stupid. Can't we just get an even 25% of all MUs? Why do I have to play 10 PvPs in a row, and then 1 Pvt and then 10 PvPs next. Nobody wants the fucking mirror MUs.
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as long as my que is less than 10sec:d sc2 is becoming more of a watching "sport" imo.
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On February 14 2012 05:55 Highways wrote:
Mainly because of Battle.net:
- Lonely and no sense of community.
- No incentive to play, for example play for 3 hours and lose 10 games in a row and you gain nothing except for losing ladder points.
- Can't chill in custom games because the custom games section is so bad
this is my thoughts exactly.
i have no problem only being gold. thats not the reason i stopped playing. the reason is sc2 in bnet just isn't fun. it indeed feels lonely and custom games section is reaaaallly bad.
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EPT
