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On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve.
I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible?
Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league.
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Realize that people are not using the Auto Disconnect bot anymore too - Those are probably responsible for a couple thousand games PER PERSON who used it.
I know a few who does it
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custom tourneys with mmr-based participant selection would be fun. Once you reached a certain level, motivation to ladder drops somewhat, however i still ladder, but not that often as in the past.
Also it would be really interesting to have a better custom game interface (e.g. search for a specific match-up and opponent mmr).
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since the upcomming expansion pack is comming i bet that most people are just waiting for that to come around. I mean a expansion drastically changes the game so.
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For the most part, SC2 was all hype these past years. This brought in lots of fresh blood to the RTS scene. Over time, they must have realized that 1v1 SC2 isn't exactly what they want to be playing. People then go looking for other games, or just play once in a while.
Honestly, for the majority of people out there, SC2 feels more like a job (practice constantly, or you'll end up sucking) than a means of entertainment.
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On February 14 2012 04:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve. I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible? Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league.
Then play terrible like other people and win. Try that and see if you'll be winning more. You'll be still around 50% winrate, cuz that's how matchmaking works until you're in top masters/GM or low bronze.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. "I'm better but i keep losing, game is broken".
It's the reality of a competitive game. Everyone wants to beat you.
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On February 14 2012 04:28 oogieogie wrote:
since the upcomming expansion pack is comming i bet that most people are just waiting for that to come around. I mean a expansion drastically changes the game so.
You'd think if the person is good enough to actually care about the 1v1 ladder they'd know 90% of what you learn in WoL will transfer over to HotS. Its not like mechanics are going away in the expansion.
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On February 14 2012 04:34 Dariusz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:23 Plansix wrote:On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve. I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible? Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league. Then play terrible like other people and win. Try that and see if you'll be winning more. You'll be still around 50% winrate, cuz that's how matchmaking works until you're in top masters/GM or low bronze. Excuses, excuses, excuses. "I'm better but i keep losing, game is broken". It's the reality of a competitive game. Everyone wants to beat you.
More people need to read this. You are supposed to lose half of your games. If you want to win all of your games then you need to play vs the AI. I think a lot of the 'ladder fear' thing is about this also: people expect to win more than half their games (and they should not).
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United States7483 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:30 VIPIrony wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:42 willoc wrote:
Fair enough. I personally don't like "macro" games as they are even more boring in my eyes. Sitting back and maximizing your econ and army in the most efficient way possible without interacting with the other player seems more like single-player to me than anything. However, to each their own play-style right? I love having to balance advanced micro tactics while maintaining production in my own base but a lot of players just turtle up on 1-2 bases leading to an extra 5-10 minutes of making units and buildings (just like in singleplayer) which leads up to big a-move battle with fancy explosions. This obviously does not appeal to me but I won't let it get in my way of enjoying the game or let me use it as an excuse into "why SC2 sucks". thats what you have multitasking and harassment for. Those arent the same as nobrained all-ins.
Yeah, he doesn't even know what a macro game is. A macro game is simply any game of SC2 where neither player utilizes a cheesy build or performs an all-in off one or two bases, so that the macro of each player becomes quite relevant. It doesn't mean never attack until max or turtle ultra hard, some of the best macro games involve constant attacks and army trades. TvZ in particular is very common for some excellent macro games, as is TvT.
Each player turtling and just maxing out without ever even attempting to engage is boring yes, but it's also not playing well. At the very least, in high level games, you generally see players feeling each other out. They might not engage if there's never a weak point to break that they spot, but they usually poke around looking for one. In some ways, these are the most interesting games as long as you understand what is going on, because you can see just how well they are playing to avoid leaving any holes at all.
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On February 14 2012 04:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve. I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible? Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league.
Or you could get out of the mindset of "macro = the only true way of playing sc2" and actually use some highly aggressive play right off the bat aswell. Makes the game ALOT more fun, trust me.
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On February 14 2012 04:37 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:34 Dariusz wrote:On February 14 2012 04:23 Plansix wrote:On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve. I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible? Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league. Then play terrible like other people and win. Try that and see if you'll be winning more. You'll be still around 50% winrate, cuz that's how matchmaking works until you're in top masters/GM or low bronze. Excuses, excuses, excuses. "I'm better but i keep losing, game is broken". It's the reality of a competitive game. Everyone wants to beat you. More people need to read this. You are supposed to lose half of your games. If you want to win all of your games then you need to play vs the AI. I think a lot of the 'ladder fear' thing is about this also: people expect to win more than half their games (and they should not).
That's fine and all but there's a difference between losing a game and getting a lose/losing points/getting demoted from your league. I know it's natural to think, oh well you win you get something, you lose you lose something, but modern games don't really behave that anymore. Games like LoL, Hon or CoD will still give you things after you lose; you get experience/points/silver coins/etc. Modern games (yes I'm excluding SC2 from that category) understand that they need to reward people even if they lose. SC2's version of that is to remove your losses from showing (lol). It might sound stupid to people to reward you even if you lose but its an important reason why those games are popular and why people are still willing to play the ladder even when they lose.
If you're going to tell people, hey in SC2 you're going to lose half your games and you're going to be punished for it and feel like you accomplish nothing, but you should just grow up and deal with it... well you get the attrition rate we're noticing.
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Maybe start from fixing battle net. This is really starting to be old statement, which is very... disheartening.?..
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Well I don't play on ladder very much anymore because of NA feels like it is all protoss sometimes, and BM is obnoxious
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On February 14 2012 04:44 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:23 Plansix wrote:On February 14 2012 04:16 Dariusz wrote:
Rename thread to 1001 excuses that allegedly prove i'm not bad.
Some people have good points tho, the lack of good social features that would keep people playing the game is amongst the most influential issues. Also, lack of guaranteed gain from laddering. After you finish some achievements and sit for 3 seasons in 1 league you will not be motivated you to ladder more if you don't have the strong desire to improve. I have a full time job at a law firm(on lunch break now) and the majority of my mental engery is used there. I have put a lot of time into SC2 and I am better than everyone I know personally. However, when I sign in, I do not like slogging through 1-3 horrible games of cheese and all-ins to play one really solid macro game. I enjoy SC2 a lot and keep at it, but I can see why some people quit. Why get good when other players can beat you being so horrible? Or to put it another way, if we knew the average length of our opponents games, Bad Habit would never had made it out of gold league. Or you could get out of the mindset of "macro = the only true way of playing sc2" and actually use some highly aggressive play right off the bat aswell. Makes the game ALOT more fun, trust me.
This.
I used to hate laddering because i was playing zerg with that mindset, macro is the only way to play. A short game is a bad game, etc.
I switch to Terran, and even if i play a macro oriented style most of the time, all the fun agression build make the game a lot more enjoyable. ( never enjoyed TvP better than since i 2rax the match up x) )
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Imo the stratified structure of the ladder leads to the phobia we've been alluding to. Its fine if there is a list of best players, but when there are leagues, divisions and ranks within divisions, everyone is petrified of dropping ranks within their own league. Objectively of course there are several divisions so rank 1 in division xi eta only means you're one of several, but to each player their league is their division. Also, there are only wins and losses, the points you have and the MMR are never visible so instead of trying to boost one number, you're fighting to retain a relatively meaningless rank within a lower tier of skill, while being petrified of trying to boost the hidden number. Of course, the solution is to desensitize oneself to this by playing more.
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Most people seem to be missing the obvious here. I have seen 2 or 3 people mention it. Skyrim and other games (though mainly Skyrim) caused many people to stop playing SC2. Every single one of my friends stopped playing around 2 or 3 months ago because of Skyrim. They are really just waiting for the expansion now.
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Man this discussion somehow begins to suck...
A lot of people see SC2 as an entertaiment game.
But for me it's more like Chess or Go a game of skill. If you want highranks and lots of winning you need to practice, this is life.
If you want to get a great karate fighter you need to practice, if you want to get a good esports man you need to practice.
If you want to accomplish anything real in life you need to put time in it.
You can get fooled like in COD where you get every 2 mins or 2 frags a achievement but this achievements have absolutly nothing to do with your skill.
If you play cs, i agree you get a good feeling if you frag somebody(btw a frag has nothing to do with your skill) but if you want to win competetive games you need to practice a lot.
So if your aiming for pure entertaiment guys please watch a movie or play other games that are not as competetive as SC2 and stop whining.
I hope that are people out there that see things it like I do. I can't stand all that whining anymore it's so silly.
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On February 13 2012 23:15 mikep wrote:
I simply wanted to reach Master league. When I did that my interest in the game stopped, cause there is no reasonble possibility that I would ever reach GM without treating the game like a job.
Of course there is.
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blizzard should introduce more maps from tournaments, it gets really boring to play on same maps, also all ins and stupid chees really makes people dont want to play this game.
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EPT
