EPTBut in a 1/1/1 there are so many variations even after "you know" they're on one base, all-inning pretty much know exactly what they're doing and it's still ridiculous to stop. Thor all-in, cloaked banshee into 1/1/1, 2 port banshee, simple 1/1/1 with tank marine banshee, raven variation, 8 marine 4 hellion drop, 4 rax all-in fake with only marines at the front. Now, if it had been say 6 weeks of being flustered with a build fine, but it's been over a year and my win% is still abysmal. (40% at best), I don't see how it's not possible to get somewhat frustrated. I like SC2, I don't like the 1/1/1
Nobody Plays 1v1 Ladder Anymore? - Page 17
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KingDime
Canada750 Posts
But in a 1/1/1 there are so many variations even after "you know" they're on one base, all-inning pretty much know exactly what they're doing and it's still ridiculous to stop. Thor all-in, cloaked banshee into 1/1/1, 2 port banshee, simple 1/1/1 with tank marine banshee, raven variation, 8 marine 4 hellion drop, 4 rax all-in fake with only marines at the front. Now, if it had been say 6 weeks of being flustered with a build fine, but it's been over a year and my win% is still abysmal. (40% at best), I don't see how it's not possible to get somewhat frustrated. I like SC2, I don't like the 1/1/1 | ||
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atmuh
United States246 Posts
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JohnGreggor
Canada148 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:37 willoc wrote: This, I believe, is probably the main point in casuals playing ladder less and less. All we get is a couple portraits for getting to a number of wins. There needs to be more rewards/customization options/progression if SC2 is to become more casual-friendly. Perhaps this is not the direction we want SC2 to take but it is the key to retaining casual players. Indeed. To keep the playerbase coming back, there needs to be an insurmountable time sink that only slightly depends on performance. I don't know how you would do this with SC2, but that's what you would need to keep casual numbers strong. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
jmho. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:32 VIPIrony wrote: I play less ladder as of late because of people with 70> APM in high masters cheesing and all-ining in every game, then falling apart as soon as they have to split their roaches, throw a fungal, or even split their scv's... It's just pathetic how much harder it is to play without all-ins or cheese all the time, and the people who use it feel all good'n'all so they transition in to BM after I tell them how terrible they'd be if they played an actual match instead of cheesing. Sure it's my mistake to lose against a cannon rush, or a DT build, but a guy who can't do nothing as soon as his deathball died, or his 2base push got raped, is really just so much worse than me at any other aspect than the category "cheese/all-in" That's my 2cents. I've considered quitting ladder altogether, but I still need the cheese practice, it's just not anymore where I get my main bunch of games. Dude, they are playing a real match. I know the NA server is preschool these days but cheeses are the first thing you learn on the Korean server and no one complains there. You are in the "no rush 5 mins plz / BGH " mindset. Please get out and learn how to do and deal with early game aggression. | ||
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Ayush_SCtoss
India3050 Posts
Plus, what could be a factor is that I only bought sc2 MAINLY for the storyline because that is what made BW fun for me, I was 11 around that time. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
Finished high Silver this season...i am just playing against Gold League Players...so i am pretty excited to get Gold League next Season. I think many players stopped playing ladder cause they think it is to easy to accomplish something. ( Master /Grandmaster) I would love to see more reasons for pretty good players to play more on ladder...like an Tournament based on Ladderposition or Points. ...i love playing ladder. :-) | ||
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IronyDK
Denmark142 Posts
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Proof.
535 Posts
On February 13 2012 23:02 BeeNu wrote: I don't have ladder fear I have ladder apathy, my goal with laddering was to always reach Masters league, once I reached that I just lost most of my incentive to keep laddering. :O I've been preferring to just play PeepMode maps and screw around instead. That's exactly what happened to me. I set my new goal to be in the top 8 in my league (for that nice shiny star+chevron on my profile) for the last 4 seasons...but it's just not that strong of an incentive. And of course GM is just an impossibility soooo....team games with my nub friends wewt! | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On February 13 2012 23:00 Fossa wrote: I noticed on sc2 ranks that the number of players who did 1v1 ladder from last season decreased drastically. I think 1v1 ladder is a really good place to have fun and compete, so why do you think this is happening? 1). Stiffer Competition: As time goes on the game evolves and constant practice is required to keep your skills intact. Many people are unwilling to do this. A casual gamer wants to come and go at their leisure, win a lot so they feel good about themselves, and be high-ranked. Nowadays its difficult for a casual gamer to make Diamond or Masters, so improvement becomes a committment (or a chore), and not a leisurely activity. 2). SC2 is old: Sure, the game was released 1.5 years ago, but that doesn't mean other games haven't come out. Skyrim is one of many examples, though other games like HoN, LoL, and WoW also serve as gaming "distractions" that are also a bit older. It's my guess that a casual gamer will play a lot of other games as well as SC2. As more games are released they spend less time on starcraft. 3). Finding a Community: Yeah, TL is a huge community, but that's not the end-solution. It's like saying a University student shouldn't be lonely because they're at a large University. It's difficult to find an area you can call a home - one where you feel as though you belong and can contribute. 1v1's especially aren't very social - you're aren't necessarily focusing on conversation and many people feel awkward doing this. It all amounts to extra effort. Granted, it's effort that WoW players, for instance, may relate in finding a good clan, but you don't hear about a ton of leisurely "clan-wars" in SC2 outside of pro teams, so it's easy to believe they don't exist. 4). Whiners: SC2 has a large population of people who love to whine about everything. One gets the impression that if so many people are complaining that something must be seriously wrong. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. We all know SC2 isn't perfect and a lot of people don't want to sit around until the game is considered "balanced" or when everyone "stops cheesing". There's also an elitist faction of players who believe cheese and all-ins are somehow dishonorable instead of legitimate strategies. Aggravating? Yes. Worth leaving a game over? Grow up! 5). The Remainder: As the population of SC2 players goes down the number of those taking the game seriously goes up. This yields the stiffer competition I mentioned earlier. 6). Time Commitment: When one commits an hour or two a day to gaming they fore-go other activities they can be doing. Be it work, study, or people, it's a tradeoff everyone makes. What if you didn't want to make that tradeoff? Mass gaming personally conflicts with my future career goals, something I consider more important than 2 hour ladder sessions every night. When it comes down to it, the game is a form of entertainment and if you're not willing to make the time then it's not happening. I feel motivated to reach the goals in the game, but I'm giving up on them if it means I'm taking too much away from bigger goals. | ||
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softan
Sweden113 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:48 CaptainCrush wrote: Im about to stop playing because they continually make terran harder and harder to play. I dont want to switch becuase I despise toss as a race and ZvZ makes me want to bash my head in. I'm quickly realizing why these people have stopped, the game is losing its appeal to me too. If you switch you'll soon realize terran isn't as weak as you think they are. Everyone seems to be playing the weakest race though despite all races being represented. It's a paradox. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:32 VIPIrony wrote: I play less ladder as of late because of people with 70> APM in high masters cheesing and all-ining in every game, then falling apart as soon as they have to split their roaches, throw a fungal, or even split their scv's... It's just pathetic how much harder it is to play without all-ins or cheese all the time, and the people who use it feel all good'n'all so they transition in to BM after I tell them how terrible they'd be if they played an actual match instead of cheesing. Sure it's my mistake to lose against a cannon rush, or a DT build, but a guy who can't do nothing as soon as his deathball died, or his 2base push got raped, is really just so much worse than me at any other aspect than the category "cheese/all-in" That's my 2cents. I've considered quitting ladder altogether, but I still need the cheese practice, it's just not anymore where I get my main bunch of games. I agree with this one. For every fun, exciting macro game I play where I get to practice all my skills, I get 1 to 3 games of all-ins, two base timing garbage or just flat out cheese. And its not like these players are refining builds or trying things out, they are just want to win. I know its part of the game, but it is so effective to get cheap wins. I had one player curse me out for the entire game because I refused to leave when he 6 pooled me. He wanted to know why I was forcing him to play out the game when he had clearly won. I beat him, which was enjoyable I guess. But I have far more fun playing against players who want to be good and play to get better. Hell, Bad Habit made it to GM off of the 6 pool to end all 6 pools. In a skill based game, it is hard to accept that this is more effective that me going for a safe, solid macro game with solid scouting. I can claim I am a better, more well rounded player. But the truth is my ladder score and win record does not reflect this. Is this good? I don't really think so. If there are some sort of information about your opponent beyond rank, it would go a long way. The average game length of a 1v1 would help a lot. You see a player who's games all end in under 9 minutes, you prepare for something dumb. You see a player who have 34 minutes per game, you know your in for some macro. It is the same information pros use when it comes to specific players and their styles. As a final point, I will quote a zerg who did a 1 base muta all in to me this weekend. The quote is in response to my "GL HF": "It is to hard to win at this game to have any fun" | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On February 14 2012 03:46 VIPIrony wrote: I have no problem with dealing with cheeses in most cases, the problem I however have, is that 1 of 20 games is a macro game where I dont either rape their stupid all-in because they know nothing else, or lose to my own mistake, which is good for learning, but boring when you have 2 options all the time. Coinflips SUCK. - I don't play on the preschool server, I'm on epicwinzlol EU EDIT; I wouldn't mind it if they knew when to cheese, or how to spot a weakness, I mind it 'cause they don't even think. Fair enough. I personally don't like "macro" games as they are even more boring in my eyes. Sitting back and maximizing your econ and army in the most efficient way possible without interacting with the other player seems more like single-player to me than anything. However, to each their own play-style right? I love having to balance advanced micro tactics while maintaining production in my own base but a lot of players just turtle up on 1-2 bases leading to an extra 5-10 minutes of making units and buildings (just like in singleplayer) which leads up to big a-move battle with fancy explosions. This obviously does not appeal to me but I won't let it get in my way of enjoying the game or let me use it as an excuse into "why SC2 sucks". | ||
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softan
Sweden113 Posts
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zazone
Romania460 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
Ultimately though I got sick of it. As I've said on multiple occasions, Protoss needs a lot of work. PvX is bad to watch, bad to play, and bad for SC2. If I could only play TvZ and TvT all day, you'd find me working my way up into master league and seeing if I could crack GM someday. Until that happens though, I'm back to either messing around in 3v3/4v4 and trying to get my skills back in Brood War. | ||
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Joseph123
Bulgaria1144 Posts
On February 14 2012 00:44 LeibSaiLeib wrote: 1. Too many maps means you can never get good in any map=you lower skill ceiling. 4-5 is the key number it seems to be good. 2. If you wanna socialice, go to facebook. 3. sc2gears 4. Omg, thats just primitive way of thinking, ist the same way of thinking, i wont put seatbelt on, because i know i wont crash. *facepalm*. You have chance to play 1000 pvp in a row, just think that way= the more you play same mu in a row, the better you get at it relative to playing different machups same amount of games. 5. Divisions are not indication of skill, but progress (day9). Like its in EVERY SINGLE GAME, if you wanna know how good you are, you join tournaments. 6. Same as nr 5. Seriously thou, battlenet ladder works perfectly. I cant understand the whining at all, you feel just a person who is tired from work, or dumped by girlfriend and needs unreasonable way to release hes/her anger. Starcraft 2 is rts, all you brought up, has nothing to do with the GAME (well first one does a bit). EDIT: you need to start worrying about player base when your below like 10k active players. EDIT2: Its only natural that after some time the games popularity gets alot lower, its called... real world (specially like sc2, where you ahve to get good by having skill, 90% of players are not willing to put in any practice or trying to get good). 1. I have no idea why do you think that 4-5 maps seems to be good. 99% of the people who play ladder play it only for fun, more maps = more fun. Whoever wants to hardcore practice some map - we all know the solution - cg. 2. I want to socialize with people who play sc2, maybe I don't have any friends that play sc2 on masters level, so what am I supposed to do in facebook? Find random people and message them or what? If Blizzard add adequate chat systems + more ways to socialize IN BATTLE.NET, problem solved. 3. As I said sc2 gears is a way to keep track, but it is outside the game, most people want to be able to check stats in battle.net and sc2gears isn't located there. 4. As I said I have limited time for playing sc2, for example it is 10 games per day. If I get over 50% pvp, I hate that matchup, so I lose my desire to play the game more, because rarely I get the other matchups that I like more. 5. Do division serve any function at the moment? I don't think so. I can progress in a low level division, as I said and become #1, but in high skill division I will be #25. It has completely no meaning. Bonus pool just kills the point of looking at division for me at least. Personally, the only thing that tells me If i have improved is if I get matched against top1-8 master or GM, then I know, only way for me. Tournaments? Seriously? I just want to play starcraft against people who I'm evenly matched with. I don't think there is any point in playing tournaments if you don't have much time to dedicate to the game, you just waste time waiting and playing vs bronzies, then you get matches vs someone who is way better than you and you're done. Most of the times that happens with me. Anyway, I don't understand why do you think I'm angry, I'm just saying that I dedicate less time to sc2, although I enjoy it, because of poor design of battle.net. | ||
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