On February 11 2012 04:51 aintz wrote:
gg late game tvz. now zergs just have to turtle and live to late game and roll the terran over. you cant stop bl with viking unless they make 0 infestor and morph all corruptors to bl.

Pretty much this..

Noro

Canada991 Posts

February 10 2012 19:55 GMT

#1103

Nice changes! Good job Blizz

hitpoint

United States1511 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1104

These changes are so awesome. All except the ghost change, they should just make ghosts more expensive and let them counter all zerg units imo. Or make snipe cost more energy.

KawaiiRice

United States2914 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1105

wow you must be joking haha wtf ^_^;? how will I stop bl infestor queen now? .....

BearStorm

United States795 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1106

Hmmm, this patch is interesting. I'm guessing people aren't using the PTR enough so Blizzard is focusing more on internal testing.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1107

Hmm... interesting. The phoenix range upgrade is an interesting way to help deal with mass muta... but FB is still expensive. Dunno how viable it would be given the time and expense.

gakkgakk

Norway902 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1108

On February 11 2012 04:45 Plansix wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 11 2012 04:40 Chill wrote:

On February 11 2012 04:38 TheDougler wrote:

On February 11 2012 03:48 Roxy wrote:
I think that the phenoix change will be huge. A lot huger than many of you are giving it credit for.

Vs zerg, stargate is much more viable.

Voids counter roach
Pheonix counter muta (and somewhat counter hydras).
And as a mineral dump, zealots counter lings

The fact that we are encouraged to get a fleet beacon means that while colossus are better, carrier is already available. From the perspective of the costs to switch tech, carrier may very well be the better option.

The fleet beacon also opens up the benefit of having additional air upgrades. Prior to this I used to just get 1-1 for voids and that was it.

I hate the mothership. At least the vortex ability. I think it should be changed or removed. Mothership should be a moving power field instead of have vortex. I would love to see recall more though (and I think we will see it in tandem with carrier play).

I see zerg avoiding mutalisks because phenoix will wreck them just as bad as fungal wrecks phoenixes. Huge investment losses to be incurred. I think that meta-game-wise, zerg will just skip straight to infestors.

I suspect we are going to be seeing protoss go for carrier/voidray/mothership and zerg will be going for infestor (specifically infested terrans)/hydra

My suspicion on balance:
As usual, zerg will lose a whole bunch of games and they will QQ but then they will figure out how to stop the protoss strat and then they wont lose to it anymore (timings / when to army or drone / when protoss is weak / how to read what they are doing)

There is still a glaring hole in the whole PvZ matchup. Neither race cna viable scout the other. Protoss can use the following to scout (but only can be done after the 10 minute mark):
- If you have an obs, you are kind of committed to robo
- If you get halucination, that cost just as much gas as a robo. You probably have to go hateway play here. Not enouhg gas to get halucination AND hit any stargate/robo timing.
- If you scout with a pheonix, you are commtied to stargate

Absolutely.
Assuming the range also increases range of grav lift, Hydras will be even weaker against phoenix, and infestors can be picked off pretty damn easily too.

Not sure why you would assume the range of graviton beam is increased.

I don't know how you can see Infestors can be picked off pretty damn easily when they have an AoE spell that stops Phoenixes from moving for several seconds...

Chill, why are you using logic in a patch notes thread? That is not how you argue here. You make long winded posts based on limited to zero information and then back it up with graphs and data from unknown sources. Also, quotes from pro players taken out of context is critical.

I will do my very best in order to help you out with things that confuse you.

First of all, the graphs that you do not know the source of is from a thread that was made here on teamliquid not many days ago. If you want to read it yourself, you can find it here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309042 .

If its too long, and you didn't read it, The general gist of that thread is winrate in different matchups according to how long the game lasts. The sample the author of that thread used, was all the games in MLG Providence. If theres still something that is unclear to you, just write so in this thread or pm me for more help.

The other thing that you seemed confused about was all the "quotes from pro players taken out of context". Just tell us what quotes you don't manage to find the context of, and I will do my very best to make a nice tl;dr of it for you.

Np buddy

turdburgler

England6749 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1109

On February 11 2012 04:55 Bajsgrodan wrote:

You are comparing Slivko to OGS Supernova, I hope you now realize how dumb you are.

he's on ogs, must be better than a guy who he baaareeelly beat in one of the second guys only televised games.

get off that korean dick

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

February 10 2012 19:56 GMT

#1110

On February 11 2012 04:53 Terranist wrote:
Phoenix now has a range upgrade at the Fleet Beacon

nony just won a gsl.

The best reason for this upgrade yet. I would lose my mind if Nony won a GSL. To see Incontrol and Artosis cry with joy while holding eachother.

ShatterZer0

United States1843 Posts

February 10 2012 19:57 GMT

#1111

4 gate phoenix is going to be horrible... but it won't change a thing in PvT or PvZ I don't think... 6 range phoenix still have to run away unless in similar or higher numbers...

MULE fix is awesome.

APM/CPM change is also awesome.

Snipe change is overbearing and pointless... why does blizzard think a 50 energy to kill a caster snipe is better than a 75 energy drain/splash snipe? They should have just made snipe have a longer than .5 second cooldown so that it took multiple volleys of snipe to kill heavy units...

EDIT: This is assuming graviton beam still has a range of 4. If Grav beam has a range of 6 then EVERYTHING CHANGES <3

DuBlooNz

United Kingdom103 Posts

February 10 2012 19:57 GMT

#1112

These changes look really good

FatkiddsLag

United States413 Posts

February 10 2012 19:58 GMT

#1113

I've felt like this from the beginning. All the balance patches seem to be balancing the game around Protoss.

Beastyqt

Serbia516 Posts

February 10 2012 19:58 GMT

#1114

On February 11 2012 04:56 KawaiiRice wrote:
wow you must be joking haha wtf ^_^;? how will I stop bl infestor queen now? .....

dude just do what ppl tell me to do, l2p..

awakenx

United States341 Posts

February 10 2012 19:59 GMT

#1115

Looks like they want to make Terran even more of an all-in race than ever before.

CptCutter

United Kingdom370 Posts

February 10 2012 19:59 GMT

#1116

well hopefully patch 1.4.4 with the broodlord nerf/snipe rebuff/viking buff wont be too far behind when they realise that zergs can go broodlords without any problems since vikings cannot counter them due to corruptor/infestor, marines cant get close enough and die super quickly to infestor/baneling and ghosts now take an unbelievable amount of shots to kill them. also ultralisks will be 10x better now.

WombaT

Northern Ireland23792 Posts

February 10 2012 19:59 GMT

#1117

Hm, never thought that snipe was particularly overpowered, it's a difficult tech switch that takes time to set up and is pretty micro intensive.

Infestor/BL is just stupidly good as a composition against both Toss and Terran, but of course nobody will acknowledge this particular elephant in the room. Combine with mass spine crawlers and yeah that's really fun to take out. Zerg shouldn't auto-win if they get to that composition, and I love an epic micro battle with everything being spread and the lovely snipe sound effect going off.

At least Muta play in theory will be less obnoxious in future, god that was getting anyone both to play and to watch.

Ashes

United States362 Posts

February 10 2012 20:00 GMT

#1118

RIP mutalisks..and this sounds fair in PvZ because, base racing should not be considered as the ultimate strategy

...anyways, I guess it could have been worse if they added a splash damage upgrade on phoenix

.. But now I think they should not remove carriers in HOTS

Talack

Canada2742 Posts

February 10 2012 20:00 GMT

#1119

On February 11 2012 04:58 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:

Show nested quote +

dude just do what ppl tell me to do, l2p..

According to zerg players you just make marines and something happens then you win automaticly.

statikg

Canada930 Posts

February 10 2012 20:00 GMT

#1120

Are you fing kidding me? So because the majoirty of the ladder is zerg since all they have to do is camp until tier 3 and then tech switch for the win, lets make it just completely impossible to beat. Thanks blizzard way to be completely out of touch with reality.