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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 14 2012 00:10 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:30 DaemonX wrote:
Terrible, ham-fisted changes to my mind.
ZvT is very balanced at the moment, and if the stats are skewed lategame, they need to make mid game changes to correct this rather than break the matchup.
Also, making ghosts worthless vs bio *and* zeals seems like a really brutal truncation of potential future innovation, as well as affecting team games.
The phoenix change is completely ridiculous. Phoenix were already fantastic units, and Zergs have only JUST learned how to use mutas vs toss, and toss have had no time to learn to adapt. Preemptively buffing the phoenix is literally the worst idea I have ever heard for 'fixng' muta PvZ, which I'm not convinced was an issue without another GSL to see it play out. Phx look so good now it's probably legit to change INTO stargate mid game if you see the muta count getting high.
Also, stargate openers were always strong, now stargate just means zerg is blugeoned out of ever going mutas to begin with, another dampener on innovation. RIP Ling muta which is now is as dead as the reaper, and long live FFE into Stargate - the only opener you will see for a year now. God, what an awful, awful change.
The high yield change is irrelevant, but as flavour it's just more cutting of the interesting cute things that kept terran fresh (like the salvage nerf. Irrelevant, but irritating). But I will say this: the burst of minerals on high-yields never once turned the result of a tournament on its head.
Words can't describe...especially since each of these issues had many more sensible options to address them if blizzard thought about it for 3 seconds. Or read TL. Bear in mind that the phoenix range increase has to be researched at the fleet beacon, which costs 300 m 200 g plus the cost of the upgrade itself. I dont think you will see it used unless the zerg player gets a very large group of mutas.
The pheonix is already viable against a small group of mutas (or simply using other options). Maybe the cost will still be too high or too late but it is the large group of mutas this is meant to adress.
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But you still need to plan in advance if you want to counter a large flock of mutas with phoenix. Phoenix build fast but not fast enough that you can build them reactively. Obviously having te phoenix range option is better than not having it, but I really do not think this change will have a big impact in PvZ.
Funnily enough it might have more of an impact in PvT. It will make phoenix slightly out-range marines, which means that they might perhaps be used to kill vikings as they should be able to get in and kill them faster than stalkers can.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines.
Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC).
The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game.
And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch)
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On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch)
Because of the Battlecruiser all- in, a lot of marines, battlecruisers and SCVs on autorepair. Was hard to beat as the BC hid 9 SCVs from view and repairing SCVs were not autotargeted.
Thinking of it, a buff to BC attack vs ground might be helpfull now that SCVs are not invincible anymore and timings and builds are way stronger overal!
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United States7483 Posts
On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch)
People need to stop talking about tiers, the only race that even really has tiers is Zerg. The term is poorly defined and meaningless, and it pressupposes that lower tier units are less useful, which is clearly not the case. We've been seeing more battlecruiser transitions in the GSL lately (TvP in particular, strangely enough), and the thor is a very powerful unit in any mech based play (or in marine/tank against zerg). Ravens have been showing up more and more as a support unit for mech armies in TvT and TvZ, and seeker missile has been used in some very high level games to deal with brood lord/corrupter.
They nerfed BC damage because it was too powerful against protoss, BC's were rolling over armies of stalkers. Terran tech units are very powerful but they require babysitting, so most terrans don't want to bother with the effort when they haven't had to up until now.
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On February 14 2012 00:35 ToastieNL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch) Because of the Battlecruiser all- in, a lot of marines, battlecruisers and SCVs on autorepair. Was hard to beat as the BC hid 9 SCVs from view and repairing SCVs were not autotargeted. Thinking of it, a buff to BC attack vs ground might be helpfull now that SCVs are not invincible anymore and timings and builds are way stronger overal!
I think you are on to something here, although I don't know if the damage is what needs buffing. Maybe it's movement speed or something? To me it's more logical to buff Tier 3 units if a race has problems lategame than buffing some Tier 2 or 2.5 unit. 
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Will the phoenix range upgrade have an effect on TvP? Is it possible to delay terra by early starport play?
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On February 14 2012 00:42 blackbrrd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:35 ToastieNL wrote:On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch) Because of the Battlecruiser all- in, a lot of marines, battlecruisers and SCVs on autorepair. Was hard to beat as the BC hid 9 SCVs from view and repairing SCVs were not autotargeted. Thinking of it, a buff to BC attack vs ground might be helpfull now that SCVs are not invincible anymore and timings and builds are way stronger overal! I think you are on to something here, although I don't know if the damage is what needs buffing. Maybe it's movement speed or something? To me it's more logical to buff Tier 3 units if a race has problems lategame than buffing some Tier 2 or 2.5 unit.
Or it's time to nerf the early game of Terran, so that good players have to actually a reason to change their playstyle. As long as Terran has over 50% winrate, no progamer with a brain will ever play defensive Terran.
Apart of the 200 MLG games someone put in a chart (with hardly any statistical relevance at all), there is absolutly no evidence of Terran being weak lategame.
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On February 14 2012 00:46 Atrimex wrote:
Will the phoenix range upgrade have an effect on TvP? Is it possible to delay terra by early starport play?
It requires a Fleet Beacon at 300/200 and will probably cost around 150/150... so I think "early" is out of the question?
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I actually have been feeling bad for Terran for a long while, now.
Due to the fact that they have the best winrates historically
also having the best arsenal of units for a long time, nobody takes Terran complaints seriously...not even Blizzard.
Also having stupid shit like the Happy Marine fan club doesn't help...
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On February 14 2012 00:40 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch) People need to stop talking about tiers, the only race that even really has tiers is Zerg. The term is poorly defined and meaningless, and it pressupposes that lower tier units are less useful, which is clearly not the case. We've been seeing more battlecruiser transitions in the GSL lately (TvP in particular, strangely enough), and the thor is a very powerful unit in any mech based play (or in marine/tank against zerg). Ravens have been showing up more and more as a support unit for mech armies in TvT and TvZ, and seeker missile has been used in some very high level games to deal with brood lord/corrupter. They nerfed BC damage because it was too powerful against protoss, BC's were rolling over armies of stalkers. Terran tech units are very powerful but they require babysitting, so most terrans don't want to bother with the effort when they haven't had to up until now.
Problem with the Terran tech units is the missing synergy between Bio. Especially the Upgrades you need to go Bio as your main units ( else you die ) its that simple so you will need to get upgrades for them but that means your tech units will lack upgrades . So for a proper tech switch away from Bio the Terran would need time he normally hasn't . You can't just mix in 0-0/1-0 BC's or Thors they get wrecked by anything with 3-3 . BC's do well once the Terran reaches high enough Air upgrades for the Vikings but before that mixing them in makes 0 sense.
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On February 14 2012 00:52 Lorizean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:46 Atrimex wrote:
Will the phoenix range upgrade have an effect on TvP? Is it possible to delay terra by early starport play? It requires a Fleet Beacon at 300/200 and will probably cost around 150/150... so I think "early" is out of the question?
You are right, but can you play now early phoenix and make them later still a usefull unit in tvp or is it still too expensive.
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On February 14 2012 00:42 blackbrrd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:35 ToastieNL wrote:On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:On February 13 2012 20:53 fishinguy wrote:
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see. I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch) Because of the Battlecruiser all- in, a lot of marines, battlecruisers and SCVs on autorepair. Was hard to beat as the BC hid 9 SCVs from view and repairing SCVs were not autotargeted. Thinking of it, a buff to BC attack vs ground might be helpfull now that SCVs are not invincible anymore and timings and builds are way stronger overal! I think you are on to something here, although I don't know if the damage is what needs buffing. Maybe it's movement speed or something? To me it's more logical to buff Tier 3 units if a race has problems lategame than buffing some Tier 2 or 2.5 unit.
Movespeed was recently buffed.
Currently, the biggest problem with BC is the fact that you start with them without upgrades (maybe +1 air), resulting in;
0 to 1 damage hits on Ultralisk,
3-4 damage on Zerg Ground
2-3 damage on Protoss Ground (most have natural one base armor)
Because the transition to battlecruisers takes 3 to 4 minutes and even then you don't have the upgrades to +3 (not even +2 probably), there's a window of about 5 minutes in which you have a lot of supply tied up in a unit with a terrible anti- ground attack.
So, damage needs a buff, only +1 would already mean a lot more, because of the .16 attack speed. +1 to base damge (from 6 to 7) increase DPS by almost 7 out of the box. That IS a lot, we are talking about a 25% increase against most units.
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On February 14 2012 01:01 Atrimex wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:52 Lorizean wrote:On February 14 2012 00:46 Atrimex wrote:
Will the phoenix range upgrade have an effect on TvP? Is it possible to delay terra by early starport play? It requires a Fleet Beacon at 300/200 and will probably cost around 150/150... so I think "early" is out of the question? You are right, but can you play now early phoenix and make them later still a usefull unit in tvp or is it still too expensive.
I don't how Phoenix better do even with more range against Terran they don't outrage Vikings and Graviton beam should still be the same range ?
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On February 14 2012 01:02 ToastieNL wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 00:42 blackbrrd wrote:On February 14 2012 00:35 ToastieNL wrote:On February 14 2012 00:32 fishinguy wrote:On February 13 2012 23:49 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 23:44 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 23:22 neoghaleon55 wrote:On February 13 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:On February 13 2012 22:02 jsdk wrote:On February 13 2012 21:57 Snowbear wrote:
[quote]
I agree with this. Every time terrans find out about something, it gets nerfed. I got the feeling that the raven will be the next nerf target. The side effect of balancing a complete race with two incomplete ones. so how is Terran complete and the other ones incomplete? Because Terran has all options available to them, and early on. Zerg lacks sieging weapon until late late game Zerg lacks anti armor until late late game...and the ultralisk sucks in Wings of Liberty Zerg lacks cheap early game anti air units Protoss lacks early game splash damage Protoss lacks harassment options Protoss lacks good splash for antiair Seriously, even David Kim and Dustin Browder went over these at Blizzcon. Terran lacks melee units... all game Terran lacks early beefy units. Terran lacks early casters. Terran lacks mobile versatile units. Terran lacks versatile production facilities. Terran lacks cheap nonsupply antiground defense. Terran lacks versatile unit upgrades. Terran lacks fast remax options. Terran lacks fast reinforcement options. ... Seriously, especially David Kim and Dustin Browder know that the game would be super boring if every race could play the same strategies just with different units. Are you seriously complaining that Terran lacks melee? Range is always better...stop trolling. Marauder is plenty Beefy nobody has an offensive caster early game Hellions are plenty mobile, Marines are plenty mobile and versatile Planetary is pretty damn cheap for it's firepower, splash damage. I agree with this, but the problem can be mitigated with more barracks/reactors .Terrible balance whines. Terran WAS the most complete race in SC2 but after all the nerfs it is not how it used to be. Lots of these units only serve for 1 purpose or isnt really used at all (raven, reaper, BC). The main problem with terran is they lack strong tier 3 options, and snipe is a late game nerf which only going to weaken the already weak terran late game. And why the hell did blizzard nerf BC damage again? (way back in the first patch) Because of the Battlecruiser all- in, a lot of marines, battlecruisers and SCVs on autorepair. Was hard to beat as the BC hid 9 SCVs from view and repairing SCVs were not autotargeted. Thinking of it, a buff to BC attack vs ground might be helpfull now that SCVs are not invincible anymore and timings and builds are way stronger overal! I think you are on to something here, although I don't know if the damage is what needs buffing. Maybe it's movement speed or something? To me it's more logical to buff Tier 3 units if a race has problems lategame than buffing some Tier 2 or 2.5 unit. Movespeed was recently buffed. Currently, the biggest problem with BC is the fact that you start with them without upgrades (maybe +1 air), resulting in; 0 to 1 damage hits on Ultralisk, 3-4 damage on Zerg Ground 2-3 damage on Protoss Ground (most have natural one base armor) Because the transition to battlecruisers takes 3 to 4 minutes and even then you don't have the upgrades to +3 (not even +2 probably), there's a window of about 5 minutes in which you have a lot of supply tied up in a unit with a terrible anti- ground attack. So, damage needs a buff, only +1 would already mean a lot more, because of the .16 attack speed. +1 to base damge (from 6 to 7) increase DPS by almost 7 out of the box. That IS a lot, we are talking about a 25% increase against most units.
Yeah that is the big crux with BC's . BL's work well even without alot of air upgrades because the Broodlings get the ones for Melee. But BC's not so much and they are terrible without upgrades since they deal little damage but shoot superfast.
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On February 14 2012 01:03 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:01 Atrimex wrote:On February 14 2012 00:52 Lorizean wrote:On February 14 2012 00:46 Atrimex wrote:
Will the phoenix range upgrade have an effect on TvP? Is it possible to delay terra by early starport play? It requires a Fleet Beacon at 300/200 and will probably cost around 150/150... so I think "early" is out of the question? You are right, but can you play now early phoenix and make them later still a usefull unit in tvp or is it still too expensive. I don't how Phoenix better do even with more range against Terran they don't outrage Vikings and Graviton beam should still be the same range ?
The upgrade probably won't be finished in time for a fast 1/1/1 build... rushing for phoenix to attempt to counter 1/1/1 was somewhat popularized (although there were a bunch of other suggested ways, all starting with getting that super fast expansion), but the extra +2 range could mayyyyybe be helpful to take out banshees while simultaneously keeping your distance from the marines below (but for such a drastic price, I'm not entirely sure it's worth it).
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Does anyone know when this will be implemented?
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On February 14 2012 01:16 Mysteric, Hysteric wrote:
Does anyone know when this will be implemented?
Probably when the new season starts. Tomorrow for NA server.
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they said they will go PTR first...no changes tomorrow
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On February 14 2012 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:16 Mysteric, Hysteric wrote:
Does anyone know when this will be implemented? Probably when the new season starts. Tomorrow for NA server.
I'm pretty sure that I read on the Blizz forums, that they are going through the PTR first, so it won't be for some time.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4044464943?page=2#26
"We appreciate all the constructive feedback we’ve received thus far. As a reminder, you’ll be able to test these changes first-hand once Patch 1.4.3 is placed on the PTR in the coming weeks, so we encourage you to try it out and let us know what you think."
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EPT
