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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
That's a silly suggestion, but, why not scan (or scout somehow) after the engagement? That's not too far fetched, isn't it?
The problem is the time, on standard maps i have approx 1 minute to the next remax battle, thats 2 rounds of marauder what means a max of 20 - 30 (in super lategame <30 min). if i would wait for a scan or scout i must wait for the eggs to emerge this would my time to react cut in half.
And yea i would never trade my marines against stalkers (because they can DANCE !  ) but they are pretty useless against infestor Broodlord or Infestor Ling Ultralisk. Its still a Tier 1 unit which dont counter the high tech (which is a good thing).
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Anyone who hasn't seen it:
State of the game 62 - qxc, Catz, Incontrol talk about the proposed changes
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On February 13 2012 13:38 bovineblitz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 06:37 Remi wrote:On February 13 2012 05:09 bovineblitz wrote:On February 13 2012 05:03 Snowbear wrote:
If you look at the winrates from terran you see them dropping VERY HARD when the games enters the 20 min mark. Since ghosts are used 99% of the time lategame (after the 20 min mark), blizzard nerfed terran lategame. Meanwhile terran lategame is so so so so so so bad. Yeah but Terran early and midgame is so so so so good. They pretty much define the flow of the game. If Terrans can't do enough damage with the tools they have, they have a tough lategame ahead of them. That doesn't seem like a terribly imbalanced thing to me, the race that controls the early flow should have to use that to their advantage to win. Thats not imbalance, that just bad game design, pure and simple. Let me illustrate, if terran is indeed the one who control course of the game then, ultimately, when terran player reach certain level of skill, it would be impossible to win him with Zerg or Protoss, because he control the game and if he won't make any mistakes he will win 100%. Now lets imagine what is the alternative? Well, the alternative is that, if it is not possible for terran to control the game this way then, when Zerg or Protoss opponent is able to counter every thing terran throw at them till certain point in game, they will win 100% of time, so in this case it's a matter of Protoss or Zerg users reaching certain skill level, after which, they will become literally unbeatable against Terrans. Chose your pick which suits you most, I don't like either alternatives and would prefer game to be balanced at all times, so that all races had fair chances to win early, mid or late game. I'm not really sure what you're saying here. When I say T controls the beginning, they can do any number of things that forces a response. The best example is banshees, it's the ultimate gameflow controller. If you don't have anything that can handle them it's gg. Proxy rax, 3rax, reactor hellion, 1-1-1... all are strong and not all can be scouted. The Terran is almost always the race that decides how much pressure to put on the opponent, not the other way around. They're much more proactive in the early/mid whereas both P and Z are generally much more reactive. That's what I mean by 'controls the flow'.
My point is, that if what you say is true, then there is a possibility for terran to reach certain skill level, where they will not lose anymore, no matter what skill their P or Z counterparts will have, because terran control the game and if Z or P would not be able to force mistakes on Terran part, they (Terrans) will win no matter what Z or P do.
I, personally, do not believe that's the case, but just wanted to illustrate to you absurdity of what you're claiming.
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the thing with raven is that it's a gimmick.
what are you going to do when zergs start using neural on ravens? sending seeker missiles back into the terran army.... great.
personally i think cloaked banshee is something potentially more useful than raven that in late game, and neither have been explored. but that doesn't change the fact that ghost gave terran some late game versatility, and a nerf to snipe removes alllllll of that versatility - because it will simply be more cost effective to get a viking or thor.
HT and infestor can counter almost everything cost effectively, ghosts will become a 200/100 marine with emp, how is that cost effective when you could just get a marine? :/
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On February 13 2012 08:49 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 08:41 aebriol wrote:On February 13 2012 08:26 Thrombozyt wrote:
The easiest fix would have been to give snipe a three second cooldown. That means the first broodlord falls quickly, but then it takes time and gives the zerg the chance to eliminate the ghosts.
Also to the poster above:
Tanks are really detrimental vs ling. They don't hold on their own and they do more damage to your marines/ghosts that to the lings. Tanks are there to take out banes and that's it. After that, they can unsiege. ... tanks detrimental vs lings? Without tanks you can just play upgraded lings with no banes and win ... Until the opponent gets a critical amount of marines at which point he kills you 1v1. Mass lings are the "counter" to lings. You need mass marines to head to head lings. Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 08:48 Excludos wrote:On February 13 2012 08:26 Thrombozyt wrote:
The easiest fix would have been to give snipe a three second cooldown. That means the first broodlord falls quickly, but then it takes time and gives the zerg the chance to eliminate the ghosts.
Also to the poster above:
Tanks are really detrimental vs ling. They don't hold on their own and they do more damage to your marines/ghosts that to the lings. Tanks are there to take out banes and that's it. After that, they can unsiege. Good to know you don't play the same game as everyone else. Does make me wonder why you're commenting on a patch note for starcraft 2 though. I don't play terran or zerg, and even I know how important siege tanks are vs..well, everything in TvZ. The only instance where tanks do more damage unsieged is vs anything armored, but that excludes splash damage completely, so even then its more valuable sieged. It's because you don't play terran or zerg that you don't know how good lings are vs pure tank. The tanks are there to snipe banelings. Everything else is secondary. If the opponent has mass lings, you don't focus more on tanks, you spam out marines. A lack of marines and to many tanks = pure lings win.
Thank you for answering for me. It's always great to see, that I'm not completely off with my understanding of the game.
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On February 13 2012 19:58 shizna wrote:
the thing with raven is that it's a gimmick.
what are you going to do when zergs start using neural on ravens? sending seeker missiles back into the terran army.... great.
personally i think cloaked banshee is something potentially more useful than raven that in late game, and neither have been explored. but that doesn't change the fact that ghost gave terran some late game versatility, and a nerf to snipe removes alllllll of that versatility - because it will simply be more cost effective to get a viking or thor.
HT and infestor can counter almost everything cost effectively, ghosts will become a 200/100 marine with emp, how is that cost effective when you could just get a marine? :/
with emp and NUKE, i think nuke are really good vs zerg in late game
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On February 13 2012 19:22 Big J wrote:
Anyone who hasn't seen it:
State of the game 62 - qxc, Catz, Incontrol talk about the proposed changes
Thanks guy
http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com
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Patch 1.whatever: T gets nerfed, P gets buffed, Z gets ignored. Sounds familiar? Kinda like the last 6-7 patches in a row? Yeah, that's what i thought. I'm not even going to bother raging anymore. Gratz on feeling like making protoss more of a joke, you inconsiderate assholes.
User was warned for this post
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On February 13 2012 19:22 Big J wrote:
Anyone who hasn't seen it:
State of the game 62 - qxc, Catz, Incontrol talk about the proposed changes
QXC tends to wine a little but I have to agree with his proposed change: make ghosts hit massive with less damage. Boom, done.
with emp and NUKE, i think nuke are really good vs zerg in late game
After terran players will use nukes they will finally get nerfed and cost supply.
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On February 13 2012 20:14 Kabras wrote:
Patch 1.whatever: T gets nerfed, P gets buffed, Z gets ignored. Sounds familiar? Kinda like the last 6-7 patches in a row? Yeah, that's what i thought. I'm not even going to bother raging anymore. Gratz on feeling like making protoss more of a joke, you inconsiderate assholes.
If you don't see the fact that Snipe getting nerfed for Terran is a huge indirect buff for zerg then maybe you should start using your brain.
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precisely, INDIRECT. I'm talking about the actual straight-up changes that blizzard does and that will affect a certain race no matter what. e.g.: snipe got nerfed => ghosts are marines with EMP no matter what. In a TvZ, you might get vikings or the Z might not get broodlords. indirect = situational. So yeah, Z gets ignored.
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I'm actually really feeling like Snipe should just do less vs Massive (30 should be sufficient) and 45 against everything else. 45 down to 25 against everything with pretty much the only silver lining being 2-shotting infestors instead of 3-shotting them is just too much of a nerf.
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On February 13 2012 20:04 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 19:58 shizna wrote:
the thing with raven is that it's a gimmick.
what are you going to do when zergs start using neural on ravens? sending seeker missiles back into the terran army.... great.
personally i think cloaked banshee is something potentially more useful than raven that in late game, and neither have been explored. but that doesn't change the fact that ghost gave terran some late game versatility, and a nerf to snipe removes alllllll of that versatility - because it will simply be more cost effective to get a viking or thor.
HT and infestor can counter almost everything cost effectively, ghosts will become a 200/100 marine with emp, how is that cost effective when you could just get a marine? :/ with emp and NUKE, i think nuke are really good vs zerg in late game
i think nukes are dumb atm... it's only a matter of time before blizz make it so you're limited to 1 at a time.
seriously i don't think there's been anything since beta that's been more broken than mass simultaneous nuking. it's not fun, it's like the ultimate troll strategy.
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On February 13 2012 20:31 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:04 Garmer wrote:On February 13 2012 19:58 shizna wrote:
the thing with raven is that it's a gimmick.
what are you going to do when zergs start using neural on ravens? sending seeker missiles back into the terran army.... great.
personally i think cloaked banshee is something potentially more useful than raven that in late game, and neither have been explored. but that doesn't change the fact that ghost gave terran some late game versatility, and a nerf to snipe removes alllllll of that versatility - because it will simply be more cost effective to get a viking or thor.
HT and infestor can counter almost everything cost effectively, ghosts will become a 200/100 marine with emp, how is that cost effective when you could just get a marine? :/ with emp and NUKE, i think nuke are really good vs zerg in late game i think nukes are dumb atm... it's only a matter of time before blizz make it so you're limited to 1 at a time. seriously i don't think there's been anything since beta that's been more broken than mass simultaneous nuking. it's not fun, it's like the ultimate troll strategy.
How is nuke broken? Since when?
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when will this patch come out?
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Russian Federation798 Posts
T players will now start doing some other strategy, P and Z will whine more and T will get nerfed again, wait and see.
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On February 13 2012 18:27 Eviscerador wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is the fleetbeacon idea good at all? It sounds like a great upgrade for Protoss, but isn't the fleet beacon a huge investment?
I don't know, someone tell me. You know, because 30 mutalisk are free for the zerg player, how can Blizzard dare to allow the protoss to get the supreme anti air fighter for just 300/200? Just play in advance, start with that fancy 1 starport BO which is so good against zerg, then if you see spire with your cloacked spy, just throw a beacon (just 100 more expensive than the spire itself) and when the zerg has enough mutas, you will have 6-8 chronobusted phoenix with range upgrade which will decimate their mutas or force them to build corruptors.
You forgot the upgrade most likely isn't free. It may be cheap, but there will be added costs to the fleet beacon which is already extremely expensive.
Also I don't think corruptors will be the answer to phoenixes with range. It would be dumb actually. A tech switch to infestor/roach or infestor/roach/hydra (with the heavy investment in phoenixes, ht and colossi won't be an issue) would be a lot better and suddenly P has these 6-8 phoenixes that were sick expensive and won't be able to do a thing except for killing the occasional overlord.
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this game is becoming more and more gay.
Can't wait to see how retarded HOTS will be
User was warned for this post
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On February 13 2012 10:31 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 10:22 Conreik wrote:
Do we all agree that the Snipe nerf should be like this :
- Snipe does 50 dmg - 25 (or less) on massive ? I could live with 50 - 20 vs massive
That would make Ghosts 3 shot zealots (or two shot EMP'd Zealots), instead of the 4 it takes now. Not saying that would be a good or bad thing, though I think most Terrans will take anything they can get in TvP right now lol. It would also make Ghosts 4 shot Corruptors instead of 5 shot. Some things to think about - I'm sure Blizz did.
(also 3 shot Roaches instead of 4 as well)
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If they give Phoenix a lategame buff how about something for Vikings and i don't mean for their flying form. Take away armored in groundform and put a upgrade for i don't know maybe +2 armor in groundform in fusion core ? Vikings aside from anti-air provide next to zero and unlike corrupters they can't change to anything useful . Landed Vikings right now are a joke beyond the early game . And since you are forced to produce them it would be nice to actually provide something after a won fight not be a complete liability.
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EPT
