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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 141

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 139 140 141 142 143 223 Next
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
pepsimaxibon
Profile Joined March 2011
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 15:35:33
February 11 2012 15:05 GMT
#2801
Letall
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden384 Posts
February 11 2012 15:07 GMT
#2802
I dont understand why they didnt make phenoix range 5 instead of 6, six seems abit excessive.
Dont tase me bro
paddyz
Profile Joined May 2011
Ireland628 Posts
February 11 2012 15:07 GMT
#2803
Overall i really like the changes, Never thought i would say this (Have always detested ghosts) but the ghosts snipe nerf looks like it might be a bit much, just a little nothing worth mentioning really. As for Carriors, i still think they need to build faster..at least the fleet beacon is more usefull now i suppose. Thx blizz!
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
February 11 2012 15:09 GMT
#2804
On February 11 2012 20:29 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 20:16 Radison wrote:
I also think, that maybe now terrans should experiment with other late game methods to counter BL / Ultras or maybe even some other buffs are needed to make late game more viable for them.


Tank/Marine/Medivac + Marauder against Ultralisks
Tank/Marine/Medivac + Viking against Broodlords
Some Ghosts as Infestor counter (EMP, Snipe) and additional snipe damage against Broodlords. (Broodlords still die faster to snipe, than Ultralisks did before the patch - so everyone who considered the Ghost a Ultralisk counter up to now, can still at least consider it a Broodlord counter now)

The patch doesn't change that Ultralisks are a terrible unit in maxed vs maxed scenarios (due to their size and speed) against unprepared Terran armies (pure Tank/Marine/Medivac), as long as they are spread well and don't get killed by banelings and infestors.
The patch doesn't change that Infestors are needed for any Zerg lategame composition, which still can be countered by ghosts.


SOME ghosts? You realise Zerg often end up with 10-15 infestors and considering the EMP radius you can hit maybe two with one EMP if you're lucky.

Fungal growth has a range of 9 and a radius of 2 meaning you can stop any terran unit from getting within 11 range of your zerg ball.

Broodlords outrange Vikings but AREN'T outrange by snipe. If you are going to make snipe useless against broodlords you need to change either the range of fungal growth or vikings or broodlords as currently a zerg has the ability to stop any vikings from getting in shooting range of a broodlord while the broodlord can still do damage.
@followMVT
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
February 11 2012 15:09 GMT
#2805
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


The Spoon Terran has spoken!

And yeah, I pretty much agree.

If Blizzard really wants to nerf Snipe vs BL and Ultra then keep the snipe dmg but make it do -X dmg vs Massive units.
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
Loki57
Profile Joined February 2011
United States292 Posts
February 11 2012 15:09 GMT
#2806
On February 11 2012 22:48 MorroW wrote:
i wonder if i will ever lose a zvt lategame again :DDD
but i will still win tvz lategame, why, because know something many terrans in this thread dont

can you try to guess what it is?


Ravens!

I still feel like theres a lot of things to be explored as far as this unit goes, and maybe the ghost nerf will invoke some of it.
"Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare."
Svizcy
Profile Joined May 2010
Slovenia300 Posts
February 11 2012 15:10 GMT
#2807
Another patch, another terran nerf, nothing new there. Ghosts are not build instantly, they need shit-ton of time to be all upgraded and build in big enaugh number to pull out a strat that kim is describing and none of you can say that we saw that to often or somethin...
TvP will be even more so toss favored than it already is, can already see vikings/medivacs getting raped by phoenix and then everything else dieing to zealot/collosi even more than it's already happening.

good day, svizcy
Chronald
Profile Joined December 2009
United States619 Posts
February 11 2012 15:10 GMT
#2808
Sadly clinging to gold bases.

It wasn't just MULEs that were broken about them, it was their existence in the first place that was broken.

ZvP FE to Gold comes to mind.

Other than that, I'm pleased.
Got that.
Rizell
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden237 Posts
February 11 2012 15:12 GMT
#2809
On February 11 2012 22:48 MorroW wrote:
i wonder if i will ever lose a zvt lategame again :DDD
but i will still win tvz lategame, why, because know something many terrans in this thread dont

can you try to guess what it is?

sidenote: protoss change is stupid. im thinking about going 5 mutalisk and then stopping make muta and deny scout for 5 minute and hope they get a big boner in excitement for massing up 20 phoenixes with range upgrade, little do they know i stopped making mutas :D i like the apm change


Will you please tell a fellow swede about your secret? I'm a zerg that dont wish to die vs some shady terran strategy!
I'll give you a kram if you tell me here or in pm ;D
So poor, cant' even pay attention.
iGn1t3
Profile Joined May 2011
Hong Kong73 Posts
February 11 2012 15:14 GMT
#2810
good old APM for the win! :D

PS: ofc we shouldn't focus on spamming clicks etc. ;p
I lose today to win tomorrow.
HeliBadger
Profile Joined September 2011
538 Posts
February 11 2012 15:18 GMT
#2811
FYI you can currently snipe infestors in 2 hits if you queue the command with either 1 ghost or 2 ghosts equidistant from the infestor, doing 2x45 damage before the infestor can regen. but it's very difficult to do in the heat of battle, and you cant mass snipe an expect to 2-shot anything

so yeah the 50 damage to psionic will make it easier. but its possible currently. there is a video of this but i cant find it
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
February 11 2012 15:19 GMT
#2812
Phoenix range – I don’t like that at all, phoenix is strong enough and zerg needs the late game mass mutalisk option.


wait what? why would any race being able to mass one unit and win be a good thing? right now, there's no such thing as Zerg overcommitting to Mutas, which is bullshit. If Z makes nothing but Mutas for 5 straight minutes, there should absolutely be a way for P to punish that reactively, without having had to open double stargate blind. This solution is good, because the investment is high enough that it really isn't worth it for P to get preemptively or to deal with small numbers of muta for harass, but if they see Z making a ridiculous shitload of Mutas, there's a way to deal with that finally.


But for the phoenix upgrade, I think it's bullshit. Maybe it could be useful, yeah, we'll see more FB, maybe transition into mothership/carriers, but seriously, in mid-game, if the upgrade is 100/100, are you gonna pay 400/300 for an upgrade which is gonna be completely useless if Z has just planned to use some mutas to take map control and do little harass ? If they scout that you're getting the upgrade, they just have to stop muta production and you're screwed, so to me it's absolutely not viable.


There have been many, many times where I'd have happily paid 400/300 to stop Z from producing any more mutas.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
February 11 2012 15:26 GMT
#2813
On February 12 2012 00:03 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 00:00 Zax19 wrote:
MULEs - Now everyone will have to learn not to call down mules on high yield which is terrible. The mule and the high yield have to be treated separately, high yield should be removed from the game completely and mule balanced differently – put in on a cooldown, make it a temporary “upgrade” to a selected SCV (Meaning, no SCVs, no mules), or whatever.

Snipe – I’d rather say broodlords are badly designed but this doesn’t sound that bad.

Phoenix range – I don’t like that at all, phoenix is strong enough and zerg needs the late game mass mutalisk option.

APM and CPM – Great, now we can have fun comparing the two . Looking at the Thor debacle this is much better than “Have A, then change to B, B doesn’t work, revert to A”.

Back in the day the standard build was dark pylon, pylon gateway. (Dark pylon had a MULE ability that made all your probes harvest 1 more mineral) that was so OP I'd like that over my current MULEs

Hehe, a nice find . What I meant is that a mule becomes a harvesting boost to one SCV so that the first version gives you a mining bonus of one mule minus one SCV and you balance it from there. This + the cooldown (starting at 60 normal speed seconds and balancing from there) should make it less all-inish and more macro intensive while the numbers are an easier, secondary fix.
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Sickkiee
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Japan607 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 15:29:56
February 11 2012 15:27 GMT
#2814
And Terran gets nerfed again...

I feel that every time that Terran uses a unit with innovation, people whine about how good and 'innovative' it is and needs to be nerfed lol.

To even use what they are nerfing, you need to be good at the game sure, but its just dis-hearting playing a race that is nerfed so consistently.

I expect a raven HSM nerf in the future!
Lifes too short to be small.
chuscorral
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain62 Posts
February 11 2012 15:30 GMT
#2815
So with the phoenix upgrade, that means that Tempest is cut of HOTS??
A unit that had the only purpose to kill mass muta.
For me is good news, i think the phoenix option is, more fun (cause you need micro) and more simple.
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
February 11 2012 15:31 GMT
#2816
Are terrans dominating in the pro scene over Z? A bit confused over the nerf. I main Z and R and my easiest mu is ZvT, worst is TvZ, and from pro matches it seems that most terrans have difficulty with Z...
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
February 11 2012 15:31 GMT
#2817
And Terran gets nerfed again...

I feel that every time that Terran uses a unit with innovation, people whine about how good and 'innovative' it is and needs to be nerfed lol.

To even use what they are nerfing, you need to be good at the game sure, but its just dis-hearting playing a race that is nerfed so consistently.


any time you see a T3 unit, particularly a caster, being built en masse and effectively countering entire armies, its gonna get nerfed. the same thing happened when Destiny had success with mass infestor--Blizz wants casters to be support units for your army, not the core of your army.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
February 11 2012 15:32 GMT
#2818
On February 12 2012 00:09 sereniity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


The Spoon Terran has spoken!

And yeah, I pretty much agree.

If Blizzard really wants to nerf Snipe vs BL and Ultra then keep the snipe dmg but make it do -X dmg vs Massive units.

Not that I would completely agree but the -X damage vs. massive is a pretty good idea. Honestly, I would even go as that far as to balance the game vs. individual units but the scripting would get very intensive, not to mention the size of a game manual :D.
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
rogzardo
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
610 Posts
February 11 2012 15:34 GMT
#2819
On February 12 2012 00:31 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Show nested quote +
And Terran gets nerfed again...

I feel that every time that Terran uses a unit with innovation, people whine about how good and 'innovative' it is and needs to be nerfed lol.

To even use what they are nerfing, you need to be good at the game sure, but its just dis-hearting playing a race that is nerfed so consistently.


any time you see a T3 unit, particularly a caster, being built en masse and effectively countering entire armies, its gonna get nerfed. the same thing happened when Destiny had success with mass infestor--Blizz wants casters to be support units for your army, not the core of your army.



...except the infestor got a buff, not a nerf. That's why I'm often playing zerg players with 12+ infestors.

SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
February 11 2012 15:36 GMT
#2820
On February 12 2012 00:34 rogzardo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 00:31 awesomoecalypse wrote:
And Terran gets nerfed again...

I feel that every time that Terran uses a unit with innovation, people whine about how good and 'innovative' it is and needs to be nerfed lol.

To even use what they are nerfing, you need to be good at the game sure, but its just dis-hearting playing a race that is nerfed so consistently.


any time you see a T3 unit, particularly a caster, being built en masse and effectively countering entire armies, its gonna get nerfed. the same thing happened when Destiny had success with mass infestor--Blizz wants casters to be support units for your army, not the core of your army.



...except the infestor got a buff, not a nerf. That's why I'm often playing zerg players with 12+ infestors.



The most recent patch with Infestors in it included a nerf to Fungal Growth, and no buffs. Neural Parasite was also nerfed.
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