• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:02
CEST 00:02
KST 07:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun12[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BW General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8)
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4063 users

Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 139

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 223 Next
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
niladorus
Profile Joined September 2011
Greece116 Posts
February 11 2012 14:01 GMT
#2761
On February 11 2012 22:59 MorroW wrote:
your not there yet keep guessing


you know how zergs think maybe?
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
February 11 2012 14:02 GMT
#2762
On February 11 2012 22:39 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 22:36 ceaRshaf wrote:
I am happy with all the changes. The snipe nerf is the final terran nerf I think. I hope the game will show balanced results in the next months to come.

Terrans need to think a little about their race and create a different mindset. Things need to change or the mighty terrans will get behind.

I love the condescending tone.

I guess if we terrans now follow the protoss & zerg "mindsets" we should just bitch and moan until we get buffed, am I rite?



Yeah, cause not all the statistics got terran nerfed, but all the tear rivers.
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
pepsimaxibon
Profile Joined March 2011
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 15:35:23
February 11 2012 14:02 GMT
#2763
AcesAnoka
Profile Joined April 2011
Belgium262 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 14:04:56
February 11 2012 14:04 GMT
#2764
All these changes seem reasonable except for the phoenix change, with the range upgrade this'll just decimate muta play.
Why does blizzard always want to buff a unit just to counter a specific strategy? so retarded.

This doesn't come from a zerg PoV btw, i'm terran
masters terran eu
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
February 11 2012 14:04 GMT
#2765
After GOM TvT it was inevitable Terran would get some nerfs.

You can't make the argument that because you've got the best early game your race should also have a unit which completely nullfies the T3 of another race in the same way that lawnmowers nullify grass.

Balance is always done at the highest level of play, and anybody who saw the infamous MVP/Nestea game and didn't see the issue with ghosts was watching wearing a blindfold. It isn't just that ghosts counter both T3 options the Zerg have, it's that it does so more cheaply and for less supply. Most of the time you can engage without even losing ghosts AND annihilate the entire Zerg army. There's something seriously wrong there.

I've always felt Thors are in need of some sort of buff, specifically to 250mm strike cannons. It strikes me as a bad thing when a unit's additional ability is simply not used for any reason. Same for the Raven H/S missile (though that could be just because PDD is so good). Perhaps an upgrade that would change their air missiles to be designed against anti-massive instead of light? That would create a situation where the Zerg could tech switch back into mutas to counter thors, after the thor has been upgraded to counter mutalisks.

I know it sound wacky, but it's all about options, right? We don't want the game pidgeonholed into specific game styles for each matchup that will happen every time regardless of player.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
February 11 2012 14:13 GMT
#2766
On February 11 2012 22:03 gh0un wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 21:33 Psychobabas wrote:
On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.

But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.

25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.



Oh I get it, so MVP should have lost then. Since July went broodlord and ultra I guess it's a guarantee loss for Terran right?
MVP went Ghosts because of the potential tech switch. Crushing an ultralisk army with marauders and then facing a broodlord army would be automatic loss.
Ling baneling would have smashed that btw.

...

So much bias here.


You are biased if anything. A unit that counters both t3 options for zerg with the same spell already sounds imbalanced.
On top of that they counter Infestors aswell.

Ghosts that are positioned inbetween tanks and a few blue flame helions to roast incoming lings, and you basically have an untouchable army, not only on paper.
Ghosts have more range on their snipe than broodlords or infestors, so you actually cant do shit with ranged attacks.
Ultras are roasted by tanks and snipes. Roaches are shit against tanks anyways. Hydras are shit against terran overall.
Lings get roasted by tanks and blue flame helions.

Basically a ghost mech army was just untouchable for current zerg compositions because the ghost negated long range siege attacks (broodlords) or fist to the face im inbetween your tank attacks (ultralisks).
Leaves all the other shit zerg has that is countered by tank helion.

Blizz did the right thing in nerfing snipe.


If terran is set up like you describe, broods open up on the hellions, tank splash kills them, then lings swarm and its over. Yes, ghosts could be used vs broodlords but it was by no stretch an autowin.

Also all the calculations around here seem to assume that ghosts spawn from the rax with 200 energy.
Roynalf
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland886 Posts
February 11 2012 14:14 GMT
#2767
On February 11 2012 23:04 anoka wrote:
All these changes seem reasonable except for the phoenix change, with the range upgrade this'll just decimate muta play.
Why does blizzard always want to buff a unit just to counter a specific strategy? so retarded.

This doesn't come from a zerg PoV btw, i'm terran


Retarderded? only thing retarded is phoenix wich should be anti light unit gets countered by mutas wich are light units. Anyway the upgrade requires fleet beacon and it research might be pretty long. This would only help if you opened with stargate any other non stargate opening would still have way too long time before they get nice phoenix count with range upgrade.
(V) (;,,;) (V) Woopwoopwoopwoop
AcesAnoka
Profile Joined April 2011
Belgium262 Posts
February 11 2012 14:15 GMT
#2768
On February 11 2012 23:14 Roynalf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 23:04 anoka wrote:
All these changes seem reasonable except for the phoenix change, with the range upgrade this'll just decimate muta play.
Why does blizzard always want to buff a unit just to counter a specific strategy? so retarded.

This doesn't come from a zerg PoV btw, i'm terran


Retarderded? only thing retarded is phoenix wich should be anti light unit gets countered by mutas wich are light units. Anyway the upgrade requires fleet beacon and it research might be pretty long. This would only help if you opened with stargate any other non stargate opening would still have way too long time before they get nice phoenix count with range upgrade.


Cant find a VOD but watch incontrol and when he sees muta play he goes double stargate and absolutely rapes muta play
masters terran eu
Doganaws
Profile Joined February 2011
Italy52 Posts
February 11 2012 14:19 GMT
#2769
I have a suggestion for next patch.

Marine will cost 100 min. - 50 gas;
Marine damage will be 3 + 100 to critters
Marine range will be 1,5

STIM will reduce health to 1 straightly

Tanks will loose the siege mode and gain the +0.00001 to attack

TNX

User was temp banned for this post.
ThePlayer33
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia2378 Posts
February 11 2012 14:21 GMT
#2770
On February 11 2012 23:15 anoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 23:14 Roynalf wrote:
On February 11 2012 23:04 anoka wrote:
All these changes seem reasonable except for the phoenix change, with the range upgrade this'll just decimate muta play.
Why does blizzard always want to buff a unit just to counter a specific strategy? so retarded.

This doesn't come from a zerg PoV btw, i'm terran


Retarderded? only thing retarded is phoenix wich should be anti light unit gets countered by mutas wich are light units. Anyway the upgrade requires fleet beacon and it research might be pretty long. This would only help if you opened with stargate any other non stargate opening would still have way too long time before they get nice phoenix count with range upgrade.


Cant find a VOD but watch incontrol and when he sees muta play he goes double stargate and absolutely rapes muta play


i do like that play by him
| Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca |
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
February 11 2012 14:22 GMT
#2771
On February 11 2012 22:59 MorroW wrote:
your not there yet keep guessing

The bunker rush!
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 14:24:49
February 11 2012 14:23 GMT
#2772
On February 11 2012 23:15 anoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 23:14 Roynalf wrote:
On February 11 2012 23:04 anoka wrote:
All these changes seem reasonable except for the phoenix change, with the range upgrade this'll just decimate muta play.
Why does blizzard always want to buff a unit just to counter a specific strategy? so retarded.

This doesn't come from a zerg PoV btw, i'm terran


Retarderded? only thing retarded is phoenix wich should be anti light unit gets countered by mutas wich are light units. Anyway the upgrade requires fleet beacon and it research might be pretty long. This would only help if you opened with stargate any other non stargate opening would still have way too long time before they get nice phoenix count with range upgrade.


Cant find a VOD but watch incontrol and when he sees muta play he goes double stargate and absolutely rapes muta play

It's about the level of opponents. In a truly competitive scenario double stargate almost never works because zerg can hunt down phoenixes before their numbers rise to big numbers. Double stargate phoenix is a "reactive" build, which you make to try and counter mutas, which means you will always be behind in the muta v/s phoenix count, probably by a large margin, and enough mutas counter low to mid amount of phoenixes.

It's a different story if you go blind double stargate, it goes unscouted and your opponent goes mutas. Then you'll definiely rape them, but this is an extremely uncommon situation. Range 6 phoenixes means that with appropriate micro, phoenixes can actually survive and pepper at mutalisk numbers while the phoenix count rises, making them a plausible counter. It's a good change.

Also, mutalisk with infestor support completely destroys phoenixes, that battle is as one-sided as it gets.
KimJongIlJr
Profile Joined August 2011
Korea (North)61 Posts
February 11 2012 14:36 GMT
#2773
I'm a zerg player and even to me it's disheartening to see terran get nerf after nerf after nerf instead of fixing the other 2 races. Out of the box terran was the most complete race with a lot of options. Now they just seem content to pigeonhole Terran. Why punish somebody like MVP who has the game sense to make the right counter... its not just 'Oh I know, ill just make 50 ghosts and win.', it's knowing when to do it and how many.

Why punish someone like Boxer who made the BFH envogue for a while.

Quit punishing races for thinking outside the box, fix the other races instead.

This space for rent
Quintum_
Profile Joined May 2011
United States669 Posts
February 11 2012 14:37 GMT
#2774
Where is the bunker nerfs, every patch has to have bunker nerfs in it or it does not feel right.
♠ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ♠ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ♠ (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ ♠
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
February 11 2012 14:37 GMT
#2775
On February 11 2012 10:36 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 10:32 Carbonthief wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:28 ChaosTerran wrote:
So, lategame TvZ is around 70% win rate for Zerg and what does Blizzard do? They nerf terran lategame. I'm sorry, but what the hell?

I really, really don't understand this. They should actually nerf terran early game and buff their lategame. But as is, it will just result in even more losses terran lategame which will force more all-ins.

And I'm starting to get really pissed at Blizzard, they nerf the shit out of our lategame and then people complain that so many terrans all-in. Well, thank Blizzard for that guys.


I'm sorry, but where are you getting this statistic from? If this is a real statistic, you my have a valid point. But every graph I have ever seen has shown Terran steadily having a lead in tvz since the very beginning of the game. Do you know of some other statistic that takes into account game length that I do not know of?

Its just for MLG providence I think, somehow added up the win rates and game times and it showed terran getting most of their wins in the early game with pretty bad winrates in 20min+ games.

Isn't this common knowledge by now though? I think every terran would rather fight muta/ling/bling instead of a hive zerg, that's just how the match-up has always been.


Terran weakness in the late game is a myth. It simply takes longer for a slightly better zerg to beat a terran than it takes a slightly better Terran to beat a zerg. I'm not saying it's harder or easier, just that it takes longer to overcome a Terran's defensive advantage.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
ActionpointTV
Profile Joined May 2011
60 Posts
February 11 2012 14:39 GMT
#2776
On February 11 2012 22:48 MorroW wrote:
i wonder if i will ever lose a zvt lategame again :DDD
but i will still win tvz lategame, why, because know something many terrans in this thread dont

can you try to guess what it is?

sidenote: protoss change is stupid. im thinking about going 5 mutalisk and then stopping make muta and deny scout for 5 minute and hope they get a big boner in excitement for massing up 20 phoenixes with range upgrade, little do they know i stopped making mutas :D i like the apm change


Could it possibly be connected with mech?
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
February 11 2012 14:40 GMT
#2777
Interesting changes, I can't wait to see if someone will actually get the phoenix upgrade in a pro-match.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 14:42:16
February 11 2012 14:42 GMT
#2778
On February 11 2012 23:40 pred470r wrote:
Interesting changes, I can't wait to see if someone will actually get the phoenix upgrade in a pro-match.

I am more excited about what they are going to name the upgrade
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
February 11 2012 14:44 GMT
#2779
On February 11 2012 23:37 Quintum_ wrote:
Where is the bunker nerfs, every patch has to have bunker nerfs in it or it does not feel right.

Next patch our bunkers can accumulate interests =P 75% + 1% for every minute that passes.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
pepsimaxibon
Profile Joined March 2011
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 15:35:28
February 11 2012 14:44 GMT
#2780
Prev 1 137 138 139 140 141 223 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 201
JuggernautJason106
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2641
Dewaltoss 95
yabsab 21
NaDa 18
Dota 2
monkeys_forever593
canceldota25
League of Legends
Doublelift2552
Counter-Strike
fl0m6579
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0219
Other Games
gofns13108
tarik_tv7501
summit1g5120
Grubby2498
FrodaN791
shahzam452
Liquid`Hasu187
ZombieGrub119
UpATreeSC64
PPMD17
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV225
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream67
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 21
• Adnapsc2 10
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 36
• HerbMon 31
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1470
• Shiphtur330
• tFFMrPink 8
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 58m
Replay Cast
10h 58m
RSL Revival
11h 58m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
12h 58m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
IPSL
17h 58m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
20h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 15h
BSL
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
IPSL
1d 20h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-30
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.