EPTnot work anymore as intended. It requires high APM and you can mess it up easily.
Will work only against ghosts, infestors, HT, queens.
For the rest, useless.
Ghosts then need a mineral cost decrease
Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 142
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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ElvisTek
Venezuela169 Posts
not work anymore as intended. It requires high APM and you can mess it up easily. Will work only against ghosts, infestors, HT, queens. For the rest, useless. Ghosts then need a mineral cost decrease | ||
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rogzardo
610 Posts
On February 12 2012 00:36 SeaSwift wrote: The most recent patch with Infestors in it included a nerf to Fungal Growth, and no buffs. Neural Parasite was also nerfed. Fungal damage got a huge buff. Infestor speed got a small nerf. I'd say they still come out way ahead. The fact that you see huge groups of infestors in lots of games tells the tale. | ||
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iglocska
Norway589 Posts
On February 12 2012 00:39 rogzardo wrote: Fungal damage got a huge buff. Infestor speed got a small nerf. I'd say they still come out way ahead. The fact that you see huge groups of infestors in lots of games tells the tale. Fungal damage was nerfed (from 36/47 to 30/40). The infestor speed nerf is actually a buff in most situations (they stopped getting ahead of roaches) | ||
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Edge717
Argentina5 Posts
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Hantak
Chile59 Posts
Most of terran players have lots of trouble dealing with this army composition, and the ghost snipe ability is our only "viable" answer to deal with them properly. (as ill explain now) You need to realize that what usually kills a terran player on the lategame ZvT MU is not the sole broodlord-infestor + ling blings or ultra-infestor + ling bling, but the tech switch among these two. Lets say we take the ghost snipe out of the picture. How a Terran deals with broodlord infestors ling bling? you need well upgraded marines to deal with the broodlings and lings, need tanks to deal with banelings and to keep infestors fungal at bay, if you saw broodlords you should be building vikings right? WRONG, although vikings are good against broodlords given its range, they dont really do that well against corruptors nor mutas (wich are usually on the field), mix in the devastating effect fungal still has on air units and how easy they clump and you will see that on the field the "natural" counter does not play its role so well. And, lets say, the terran got to deal properly with this army composition of the Zerg. The zerg can remax in about 40 seconds with either broodlord-infestors ling bling or could switch to ultralisk-infestor ling bling. Given how you cannot really scout this coming until the units are on the field Terran has no real way to prepare for it unless you gamble and build counters preemtivelly. If you where preparing against a second wave of broodlords you would have kept pumping vikings and marines, but if the zerg switched towards ultras then you are really "effed". Theres no way a terran could scout this in time and react properly, you need reactors to keep the rine production in the needed numbers, adding on techlabs for marauders would take way too long and the Z could always tech back to broodlords. Either way you would never be able to react in time. Terran late game is lacking the production capabilities of the other 2 races, and changes like this are only making this issue more notorious. If this goes trough, (wich i really hope it doesnt) we will notice how Terran late game wins will be even more rare. Seems every change on the TvX MU's are forcing Terran players to do timing attacks and try to end the game before "X" army composition hits the field. Is really that the way we should be playing our race? | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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AcesAnoka
Belgium262 Posts
On February 12 2012 00:53 Talin wrote: I'm sure this has been asked already but I can't find it ._. does the Phoenix range upgrade affect Graviton beam too? Nope. | ||
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Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
On February 11 2012 02:17 decaf wrote: I don't like the snipe change at all, it's way too drastic. And looking at Genius' games I'm not sure if the phoenix buff was necessary either. If something Terran needed a buff vs toss late game. I love the MULE and APM change though. THIS, TvZ is like the most balenced matchup, but with this ghost change lategame is going to be crazy hard. And in TVP terran has such a hard time lategame. Terrans have to micro their army like insanely well otherwise we just get buttraped. Something needs to happen. | ||
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Nightrain
481 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
Why make such huge changes to snipes when the only person who have been owning top korean zergs with turtle ghost strategy is MVP? Nerf MVP more than other terrans i suppose.... | ||
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ooozer
Germany231 Posts
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On February 12 2012 01:05 ooozer wrote: Blanket EMP Spam and Stutter Step is extremly demanding, yeah sure It isn't hard, but try to do it while you have another things to control at the same time. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On February 12 2012 01:05 ooozer wrote: Blanket EMP Spam and Stutter Step is extremly demanding, yeah sure You've obviously got a lot of high level terran lategame experience under your belt to dish out bold statements like that. We could generalize the same way by belittling Zerg players, but we don't. Stay civil. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 12 2012 00:49 Hantak wrote: The zerg can remax in about 40 seconds with either broodlord-infestors ling bling or could switch to ultralisk-infestor ling bling. Given how you cannot really scout this coming until the units are on the field Terran has no real way to prepare for it unless you gamble and build counters preemtivelly. Although most zerg units have build times under 40 seconds, none of those units take up more than 2 supply. This means that were a zerg to remax in under 40 seconds, he would need to do so in one wave. Assuming that the zerg has 75 drones, that leaves 125 supply to remax. Even if the zerg remaxed on roaches, which is not common vs terran(and not good), it would take: 63(ish) larve!!!!!! That would require 10 hatcheries(or some serious larve banking)!!! It would take 120 larve or more with zerglings !!! I will just assume they are getting a mix of units and say its round 70-80!!! If this is happening to you and you are facing max 200 zerg armies 40 seconds apart, I will wager you are playing the game wrong. Or your opponents have been cheating. Or your claim is unfounded and does not resemble reality in any way. I understand that terrans are having a tough time ramping up to the late game. However, I am getting tired of these posts quoting stats from single tournaments, carefully selected win rates or just inform that is just plain wrong. All followed up with "but Korean pros are fine. But I am not Korean or a pro, so it sucks for me and should change." Also, your use of bold in your posts only hurts your argument and kinda looks silly. You should avoid it in the future, or use it in the final comments. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 12 2012 01:05 ooozer wrote: Blanket EMP Spam and Stutter Step is extremly demanding, yeah sure A lot of pro agreed that TvP engagements is the most micro demanding thing in the game... Including Thorzain. | ||
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FatkiddsLag
United States413 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 12 2012 01:04 poorcloud wrote: Blizzard are reacting too quickly to changes. Just a few days ago, Genius showed how phoenixes work well against Nestea and they are buffing the phoenixes even more? Why can't they just wait for the game to develop? Why make such huge changes to snipes when the only person who have been owning top korean zergs with turtle ghost strategy is MVP? Nerf MVP more than other terrans i suppose.... I am sure they are reacting to data they see, rather than single games in a tournament. The buff for phoenixes comes really late and will likely force the zerg to transition out of mutas, rather than stay on them the whole game. Plus the heavy cost will force protoss to skimp on colossi and storm, which is still needed. The upgrade and building are going to have similar gas costs to teching to colossi with range. Zerg are also going to have a really good window to tech out of mutas, since they will have such good scouting. Personally, I dislike that the game is forced into a base race and its a bummer that a single unit can it. It is not what I believe SC2 should be about. I think mutas should a strong harass option, but not a unit that you mass 60 supply in and then sit on it for the majority of the game. | ||
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