EPTPatch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 106
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
So Terrans learn how too use tanks? --nerfed Terrans learn how to bunker rush? --nerfed Terrans learn how to emp? --nerfed Terrans learn how to snipe? --nerfed So at what point does Blizzard choose to buff other races instead of nerfing everything Terrans learn to do? Imagine if they nerfed everything that zergs learned to do the way they do it with terran. Learn new mass speedling/infestor strategy. --double cost of zergling upgrades Learn magic box -- Triple thor splash damage Learn how too effectively use chain-fungals --give all units 2 second immunity from fungal after they just got out of one Learn about zerg "deathball" with broodlords, corrupters and infestors -- double the cost of everything I mean its slightly an exaggeration but my point is made. I suppose the changes are good though. It's cool that we can now 2 shot snipe infestors. It was really annoying before to get off 2 snipes and have the infestor live with 1 hp -_- The MULE change idgaf about, it's such a minor one its hardly worth mentioning, esp since GSL doesn't even have gold minerals anymore. | ||
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CeliosB
Canada100 Posts
On February 11 2012 02:08 Shockk wrote: Even though they should just flat out remove gold bases, the change could work. But the Snipe change is ... debatable, at best. Way to force Terrans into Vikings / Marauders and make them more susceptible to lategame Z tech switches. Thats the whole point of the change lol. They did it because zerg was having trouble with ghosts late game | ||
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Coated
United States74 Posts
The ghost change is skeptical. They can be OP a bit, especially if massed. I agree with a previous poster that they should have just reduced the damage of snipe against Massive units. But hey, Terran is still the most versatile race, so who cares. The Mule change was a nice addition. I still think they need to be nerfed more. It just seems OP to me that terran can keep up with everyones economy with 25% less scv's. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:11 Gosi wrote: Funny how you say this when Starcarft BW and the most successful competitive esport game of all times didn't get balanced patched like crazy because something was "OP" and to get "equal opprtunities". The game and it's players solved it out and created the the modern meta game. As players got better they were able to come up and execute new stuff that every race had to adapt too, it's part of the sharm of RTS. In SC2 however Blizzard patch and change things way to much and way to quickly. Instead of letting the progamers solving the issues Blizzard does it "for" them by nerfing and buffing things and pretty much tells us how to play the game. It is getting boring quickly. Don't forget that a game must actually be balanced in order for players to 'solve' it. Right? I mean, no amount of player ingenuity would have 'solved' vanilla Starcraft, for instance. Broodwar (with some assistance from map design) happened to be solvable, and it duly happened. But you can't generalise that experience to all configurations of RTS. I like the intended effect of these changes; not sure about the method employed though. | ||
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Tulkas25
Greece292 Posts
Corruption is a single target spell that doesn't stunlock and slowly kill units.It actually requires decent apm and the advantage in the eyes of zerg is not worth their time since their fungals will anyway kill everything..So who cares.I know i wasn't very constructive but i am really tired of hearing zergs say micro more and theorycrafting about ravens and all that jazz when they can't even use a skill from a unit they have in mass lategame. | ||
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bucckevin
858 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:22 Razakel wrote: To all the guys saying you won't use Ghosts in TvZ anymore, I'm wondering if you've forgotten about our old friend the Infestor? Ghosts will still be a vital part of the late game Terran composition, they just won't be MOST of it. No one unit in SC2 should massacre an entire army no problem, even en masse. Ghosts will be good but not absurd, I think this change is good. Infestors? High Templars storming bio, feedbacking every terran T3 unit? | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:12 Rinnegan5 wrote: I agree on the ghost change alot. I remember seeing this game between IMMvp and IMNestea where Mvp just massed ghosts at the end and murdered everything Nestea had in an instant(especially broodlords). It was so terrible to see that just one unit could do this amount of damage to everything zerg had. I agree on the upgrade for Phoenixes aswell. Mass muta was just wreaking havoc on Protoss. Bit weird to put it on the fleat beacon though but maybe I'm not used to seeing it build  i hear sample size and extraneous variables are pretty important in making logical and evidence based conclusions. | ||
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BGrael
Germany229 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:14 bucckevin wrote: MMA plays an APM intensive crazy drop harass style many of us cannot copy. The zerg doesnt have the opportunity to tech straight up to T3, he needs to make units or he dies. MVP plays a safe macro style, which allows him to mass ghost while playing defensive. Well, and it is much more fun to watch MMAs games. For the pro level, I think this is the right choice, and that is what counts in my eyes ultimately. But I would not mind making the Broodlord/Infestor/Corrputor part of the game a little bit harder to manage for zerg. The question then would be how to do that. | ||
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tronix
United States95 Posts
ghosts were patched to be more mineral intensive and less gas to make them more accessible early game. this is also considering the ghost academy is really cheap and only requires a naked rax. making snipe basically half as effective against early game units (rines, lings, zeals, and workers) seems counter-intuitive to me. | ||
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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On February 11 2012 02:08 Shockk wrote: Even though they should just flat out remove gold bases, the change could work. But the Snipe change is ... debatable, at best. Way to force Terrans into Vikings / Marauders and make them more susceptible to lategame Z tech switches. Yeah, terran should just be able to get one unit that counters everything zerg has... I think the phoenix range could be cool. I also love that they are bringing back APM. It should be a lot easier for people who are unfamiliar with the game to marvel at the prowess of our favorite pros! | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:17 moQbara wrote: A few things about snipe: - there is a 30 page thread which discusses how a simple key bind can pretty much enable you to spam this spell over an entire T3 zerg army and nullify it instantly; - I cannot understand why people want to have bonus damage vs light. It's not like there are no terran counters to mutalisk and or that sniping lings / blings is the only way to deal with them (or the best for that matter). Zealots are still vulnerable to ghosts both through EMP and snipe, they just get less damage from them; - sniping an infestor / high templar kills it as opposed to only draining the (rechargeable) energy with EMP; - from my point of view, terran will have to use some *other* damage dealing units to compensate for the loss in DPS for the ghost snipe. This seems to follow a decent game-logic, as having a single unit which can deal with anything is wrong. Phoenix change is nice, it will probably make phoenix openings more common vs. zerg. MULE nerf is pretty much accepted as normal, nothing much to comment about it. This thread is full of progamer anwser telling they don't use it because it's buggy and not worth it. << ( MorroW mainly said it ) | ||
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ChriseC
Germany440 Posts
u need to push the game into a certain direction even when the ghost nerfs makes lategame hard it can be patched in the patch commin after, maybe by buffing vikings slightly or nerfing fungal range, but having one unit to counter a whole zerg massive unit is just bad for the game also who says u cant win without ghosts? most koreans dont play with ghosts anyway. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
I really, really don't understand this. They should actually nerf terran early game and buff their lategame. But as is, it will just result in even more losses terran lategame which will force more all-ins. And I'm starting to get really pissed at Blizzard, they nerf the shit out of our lategame and then people complain that so many terrans all-in. Well, thank Blizzard for that guys. | ||
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bucckevin
858 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:24 Coated wrote: Great, now we can expect 'all' zergs to go straight into infestors to just flat out counter all protoss units. I actually didn't mind the muta harass. I knew that if zerg went mutas, I didn't have to worry about to many other units. With infestors on the field, I won't be able to leave my base till I reach 200/200 army. The ghost change is skeptical. They can be OP a bit, especially if massed. I agree with a previous poster that they should have just reduced the damage of snipe against Massive units. But hey, Terran is still the most versatile race, so who cares. The Mule change was a nice addition. I still think they need to be nerfed more. It just seems OP to me that terran can keep up with everyones economy with 25% less scv's. That's because they are the slowest harvester making race and their harvester has to make buildings instead of mining. This has been argued to death. | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:28 ChaosTerran wrote: So, lategame TvZ is around 70% win rate for Zerg and what does Blizzard do? They nerf terran lategame. I'm sorry, but what the hell? I really, really don't understand this. They should actually nerf terran early game and buff their lategame. But as is, it will just result in even more losses terran lategame which will force more all-ins. And I'm starting to get really pissed at Blizzard, they nerf the shit out of our lategame and then people complain that so many terrans all-in. Well, thank Blizzard for that guys. I'm sorry, but where are you getting this statistic from? If this is a real statistic, you my have a valid point. But every graph I have ever seen has shown Terran steadily having a lead in tvz since the very beginning of the game. Do you know of some other statistic that takes into account game length that I do not know of? | ||
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Coated
United States74 Posts
On February 11 2012 10:29 bucckevin wrote: That's because they are the slowest harvester making race and their harvester has to make buildings instead of mining. This has been argued to death. Yet even with using harvesters to make buildings and having the slowest harvester making race, they are still 25% more effiecient at mining that every other race. Seriously, the number right now don't lie. You can go into any replay, look at the eco and see protoss/zerg up on drones by 25% yet Terran is still ahead in income. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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