EPTMonetizing Starcraft / LordJerith rant. Thoughts? - Page 30
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
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SACtheXchng
168 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:08 SlimeBagly wrote: It's fascinating, we live in a generation of unprecedented entitlement. The idea of "Free exchange of information" is talked about like it's the 11th amendment, when all it really means is "I'm used to getting shit for free, so anything that's contrary to that is nazi germany." One way or another, we'll have to get used to the idea that we have to pay for things we enjoy... One way or another companies will have to get used to the Idea that forcing overpriced sub par products down customers' throats expecting to turn a profit is the wrong way to run a business. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:08 SlimeBagly wrote: It's fascinating, we live in a generation of unprecedented entitlement. The idea of "Free exchange of information" is talked about like it's the 11th amendment, when all it really means is "I'm used to getting shit for free, so anything that's contrary to that is nazi germany." One way or another, we'll have to get used to the idea that we have to pay for things we enjoy... Bullshit. Tournaments have to accept that without free streams, they won't even exist. Ask Everquest how it's doing as a P2P game. How about Lineage? The Old Republic? Guild Wars? Team Fortress 2? DotA? LoL? Oh, right, every single one of those games are FREE TO PLAY because WoW completely, totally, and absolutely dominated the market of monthly payment games. It's not entitlement to expect free streams from tournaments. It's common sense and basic business understanding that tells you that a PPV model funnels all the money to a select few organizations, and completely starves out the rest. | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote: Bullshit. Tournaments have to accept that without free streams, they won't even exist. Ask Everquest how it's doing as a P2P game. How about Lineage? The Old Republic? Guild Wars? Team Fortress 2? DotA? LoL? Oh, right, every single one of those games are FREE TO PLAY because WoW completely, totally, and absolutely dominated the market of monthly payment games. It's not entitlement to expect free streams from tournaments. It's common sense and basic business understanding that tells you that a PPV model funnels all the money to a select few organizations, and completely starves out the rest. Umm, might want to get your facts straight. EQ was Pay to play for 13 years and laid down the groundwork for games to come and ToR certainly isn't free to play. | ||
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MrCash
United States1504 Posts
There are PPV boxing matches, but not every boxing match is PPV. As a matter of fact, the minority of all boxing matches are PPV, the very top echelon (plus opening bouts). There is tons of free UFC content as well, that particular industry appears to be very heavily dependent on PPV. That could actually be a threat to UFC, because if something went awry wit the PPV system, UFC would suffer greatly. Much like online poker did with certain laws that got passed in the US. I can't foresee anything of the sort, however there is a reason financial investors recommend to diversify your portfolio. Point is, there is room for PPV like events, like what GOM and GSL are doing, but it's a bit early to do too much of it. These companies need to invest some of their own money (which is a risk), into a growing industry. If it grows, they will have already established themselves as a major brand name and will be able to offer more pay-for services. Anyone trying to get in on the action when the scene "booms" would struggle for recognition. This is the investment these groups must make. Example was NASL season 1 tried to monetize too fast for services most people were not ready to pay for, especially from a group that has not proven itself to the community in general. We are accepting of GOMTV doing almost the exact same thing because of the consistent level of game and production quality. Eventually, GOM will be able to hold specific events which are exclusively PPV, however they will have to provide a free stream for their main shows for quite some time. Groups like MLG and IPL (maybe IEM too) are still miles behind, everyone else is not even in the same galaxy. tl;dr Free streams are necessary investment for any organization who wants to break into the scene and will always be a staple of eSports. There is room for PPV content with time. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:16 OuchyDathurts wrote: Umm, might want to get your facts straight. EQ was Pay to play for 13 years and laid down the groundwork for games to come and ToR certainly isn't free to play. Yeah, EQ was Pay to play for 13 years because it was a major power in the industry. Then it wasn't. And now it's F2P. Just like I said - money funnelled to the top players. If you didn't remember, in that same 13 years, there were a hundred big monthly payment games that died because no one was interested in paying for them instead of better alternatives. And yeah, I was wrong about ToR. Early reports said it would be F2P, I guess they decided on monthly fees. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
They just need advertisements. | ||
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TheyCallMePops
United States81 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote: Bullshit. Tournaments have to accept that without free streams, they won't even exist. Ask Everquest how it's doing as a P2P game. How about Lineage? The Old Republic? Guild Wars? Team Fortress 2? DotA? LoL? Oh, right, every single one of those games are FREE TO PLAY because WoW completely, totally, and absolutely dominated the market of monthly payment games. It's not entitlement to expect free streams from tournaments. It's common sense and basic business understanding that tells you that a PPV model funnels all the money to a select few organizations, and completely starves out the rest. Guild Wars needs to be bought and was always intended to not have a monthly sub. Everquest was pay to play for 12? years. TOR is pay to play and has a store price just like EQ. TF2/DotA/LoL aren't MMO games (and have completely different business models, and DotA is a WC3 custom game, it has no revenue besides donations.... DotA 2 is in beta and currently has no revenue generation). Also, what does any of this have to do with streaming Starcraft games? | ||
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AphexSCV
3 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:24 sluggaslamoo wrote: OSL and MSL are free to view, even to attend live its free. They just need advertisements. there is only so much advertising though, and if they don't get great exposure and you lose a sponsor it's lights out. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
I've never paid for GSL (nor do I watch it, except for a few free games), and I never plan to. I watch starcraft because it is free and I don't pay for any tv. If I had to pay, I wouldn't watch the pay per view stuff, and just stick to the free stuff until it disappeared or turned to absolute garbage. Then I'd move on to something else. Edit: I listen to the rant. That guy is an idiot. Why is he talking about how much money he makes? How is that relevant? He has a few good points, but it is diluted by the rest of the random crap that comes out of his fat face. He thinks Huk and Idra are the pinnacle of sc2 play? What? I wouldn't take anything this guy says seriously. Was entertaining, though. | ||
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Pitrocelli
Slovakia127 Posts
In MMA you can see dedication and smart strategy in every step of preparation, training of various skills, balancing between weight lifting, conditioning, stamina and technical skills. They have to watch diet, nutrition, training schedule, they have to work on weak skillsets or strategy to force opponent into fight they excel in. What you get in SC2 games ? Generic games, you see casters being bored 2 hours into tournament watching same games over and over again .. u hear casters talking about random bullshit just to cover up the fact that in next 8 minutes there will be nothink interesting happening. You watch this generation of BW and WC3 semi-pros and their fans and supporters, you almost never get to witness new rising star. Community is too low in raw numbers due to Blizzard greedy policies which killed it before it even managed to rise. U can watch Blizzard charging tournaments, refusing to listen to his customers, forcing them to play on b.net 0.2 and asking them "do you really want lan"?. Why i watch games with such negative attitude ? Because i like to use SC2 as negative energy sink and you need to keep up with the metagame or at least new maps to compete. Overall SC2 is generic, non tactical non strategical decision tree loop. Tournaments are commented using hyperbolic or plain random gibberish statements just to keep illusion of interest about game ... would i pay for it ?? Hell no. | ||
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LJ4Nz.png) User was warned for this post | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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Elwar
953 Posts
The most overused word on the internet at the moment seems to be 'entitlement' with people clamoring to tell everyone why they should expect less and less and be happy about it. It dawns on me that maybe e-sports organisations aren't entitled to any more profit per viewer than they're currently getting. Try it, don't provide a free stream to your event and see what happens. Monetise everything to squeeze the last red cent from the viewers. If it falls flat on its face, well, theres already a system thats proven to work and if that doesn't generate enough profit for your liking, leave the industry. No one will care. If it works, you have your answer. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 10 2012 09:05 Hinanawi wrote: I'm surprised nobody's explicitly said it yet, although a few people have hinted at it (i.e. "I don't want to just watch Koreans"), but there's a very real racial factor going on here. Full disclosure: I am white. Put quite simply, the foreign community has a lot of people who AREN'T Korean (or even asian), and want to see white/black/hispanic/whatever players doing well and winning at the highest level of competition. If it turns into a Korean vs Korean slugfest 100% of the time, many will gradually lose interest. Not everyone is a former BW fan who is used to watching the 'best foreigners' get constantly beat up by B-team Koreans. Right now SC2 money is flowing primarily from non-Korean spectators into Korean pockets. I'm sorry, but the reality is that isn't sustainable (unless Korea themselves takes a liking to SC2 and keeps it afloat by themselves, which by all indications they won't). We had this same 'problem' in BW, the foreign scene was mostly a joke and our foreign tournaments explicitly banned Koreans so that whitey could win from time to time. I never took it seriously or cared much about it, although of course I would cheer for Idra and Ret when they tried to break in. Difference in BW was that it was always by Koreans for Koreans, so lack of foreign support didn't matter. Us foreign BW fans have always just been happy to watch BW played at the highest level, a foreigner breaking in was a nice dream but not a necessity. On the other hand, SC2 is dead in the water without foreigners getting their act together. So you can go on and on about business models and ESPORTS!!!!!, but at the end of the day whitey needs to step it up or you're finished. Foreign players have no decade-long headstart to blame for their failures this time, and the GSL bends over backwards to affirmative-action foreigners into the tournament with predictably hilarious results. Same goes for cars, electronics etc etc. It goes from West's pockets to the Orient. (most) People buy value not race. GSL will be just fine, as if you need anymore proof as they are the only ones who can command a premium. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:05 WolfintheSheep wrote: I've already posted on this thread, and I've already stated that PPV tournament streams will cause a swift and unavoidable end to any tournament that isn't GSL and possibly MLG, and will stunt the growth of any fanbase you're trying to grow. If you want to be profitable, especially if you're not the biggest tournament around, then you need free streams to draw in the crowds, and rely on well marketed and solid peripheral products and services that people want to pay for. And as for the charity thing, have you not heard of bake sales? School fundraisers? Charity lotteries? If you're relying on the good will of people to make you money, instead of having goods and services that are worth paying for, then you're a business out for charity donations. Why are you trying to tell us what the best business model for SC2 is despite the fact that 1) you have no experience in the industry and 2) industry insiders have already been in this thread telling us that the free stream model isn't profitable? And you're still not understanding what charity means lol, nice attempt at saving face though. Your contention that tournament streams in their current form offer zero value and aren't worth a dime of our money is silly and just screams out "I feel entitled to whatever I want." | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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ReVox
4 Posts
Foreign stuff just isn't good enough to justify paying for the stream yet. What I mean by this is the actual games, I think the casting and other stuff is great. The games over the past few days with parting, drg, and genius have been amazing games and i felt that they justified my subscription completely. When I watch MLG or NASL or anything else the matches just arent that great to watch. There's just no excitement or suspense or anything like that. Foreigners need to get better before i'm even going to want to see vods of their tournaments. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 10 2012 11:54 Elwar wrote: Simple answer is try it out and see what happens. The most overused word on the internet at the moment seems to be 'entitlement' with people clamoring to tell everyone why they should expect less and less and be happy about it. It dawns on me that maybe e-sports organisations aren't entitled to any more profit per viewer than they're currently getting. Try it, don't provide a free stream to your event and see what happens. Monetise everything to squeeze the last red cent from the viewers. If it falls flat on its face, well, theres already a system thats proven to work and if that doesn't generate enough profit for your liking, leave the industry. No one will care. If it works, you have your answer. Hehe exactly. You are only entiled to what people will pay for you service. If not enough people pay time to GTFO. 90% of business fail why should SC2 business be any differnt? Talk about entilement, That slack jawed idiot has it. | ||
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