EPT31,500 Replays - A look at balance in Starcraft II - Page 3
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CuteZergling
641 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:10 ETisME wrote: There are some errors of statistics to be honest: the pylon gateway cybercore one doesn't show what the toss is going for and what match ups. it is the most consistent protoss opening that is done (but not showing what tech route and what comes next, for all we know, it isn't a nexus first or FFE) and since toss has one of the worst matchup win rate, obviously this opening, be it 4 gate, 3 gate robo expo that the opening leads to, will have the highest rate of losing. and since 2 gate is an opening designed to win right off, it shows the actual build can win games, unlike the one above which only shows what opening he is doing and what comes next (the rest of the build that is designed to win the game) would never get a winning rate as high as the 2 gate one You should notice the 2nd gas is included in that winrate, so the build is for double gas P on 1 base. You can be sure it ISN'T a nexus or forge FE after this... dunno how you could possibly think a protoss is going to open double gas and then forge FE LOL | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5224 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:31 -orb- wrote: You should notice the 2nd gas is included in that winrate, so the build is for double gas P on 1 base. You can be sure it ISN'T a nexus or forge FE after this... dunno how you could possibly think a protoss is going to open double gas and then forge FE LOL I open double gas and get a Nexus with 1 Gate (MC's Gate-Nexus-Gate-Stargate-Gate) opener vs Zerg all the time. I also like doing 3 Gate Expands vs Terran, which open double gas, get 3 Gates then expand. So there are plenty of expand builds that come of double gas openers. | ||
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ThE_OsToJiY
Canada1167 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Son of Gnome
United States777 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: holy shit, the stats for shak and taldarim are a lot closer than I'd think =O I'm surprised the TvP on antiga is so high... isn't that supposed to be an easier map as protoss since you can take 3 base easily? Same with TvP on Dual Sight, though I'm guessing terrans usually do some kind of early aggression or 1-1-1 all-in on that map to get an easy win. anyways thanks a lot for sharing these! MLG Antiga Shipyards is 2 player forced cross spawn. I think most 2 player maps favor Terran because we have the most powerful rushes, which are the most effective on maps that don't require a scout. And MLG Shattered, MLG Antiga, MLG Dual Sight, and MLG Metalopolis all still have golds expos. Which is a big deal in all TvX. From looking at these results I bet Playhem could fix all their balancing problems just by replacing golds with normal expansions. The 4 worst balanced maps all have golds, and the 3 best balanced maps all do not have golds. | ||
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darkrage14
Canada173 Posts
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ProBot
Canada170 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:07 KawaiiRice wrote: these stats don't really reflect balance and random masters players don't even play the game right anyway. i.e.: Metal should be way more z favored, and antiga should be incredibly terran favored. Dual Sight and Shakuras should be more T favored TvZ too. Can't really comment on the other matchups. Regardless, nice post. <3 Playhem  Define "playing the game right." Not to be a dick just want to understand your point of view a bit better. I suck so i'm not going to get into anything with you but i would assume Most masters players and above have a decent idea of how to play the game hence why they're in said league. Generally speaking. But i'm silver so what do i know. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
a lot of people just blindly recite TLPD stats as truth without knowing the knitty-gritty about the maps. This is an interesting look at a reasonable range of pro and non-pro on each map.... and maybe we need to see Shattered Temple move on to greener pastures. | ||
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ProBot
Canada170 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:31 -orb- wrote: You should notice the 2nd gas is included in that winrate, so the build is for double gas P on 1 base. You can be sure it ISN'T a nexus or forge FE after this... dunno how you could possibly think a protoss is going to open double gas and then forge FE LOL so judging by that is it safe to say thats very indicative of 1 base stargate play? for the most part? If not can you explain why? I suck at the game so try not to flame if i'm way off pwease. want to keep my pillow tear free tonight :D | ||
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Jesushooves
Canada553 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:44 emc wrote: we have to think that 5 months ago the game was a different version than the current one, right? So maybe these stats can't be taken too seriously since the balance could have changed even if by a few percent. This isn't meant to give deep meaning of the game, just a general idea, since I think the majority of people on TL are probably the same that are represented in the stats. By that I mean that you shouldn't be allowed to complain about..say metalopolis unless you are a top tier terran or protoss, and same for zergs on antiga. But it does show some imbalances with maps in the ladder pool, which needs to be addressed. Hopefully data like this should convince blizzard to change it up a bit. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:46 ProBot wrote: Define "playing the game right." Not to be a dick just want to understand your point of view a bit better. I suck so i'm not going to get into anything with you but i would assume Most masters players and above have a decent idea of how to play the game hence why they're in said league. Generally speaking. But i'm silver so what do i know. you can get into masters without having deep knowledge of what exactly you're doing and just macroing. your assumption is false because most masters don't really know and masters itself doesn't actually mean anything, it's just a stupid label blizzard decided to place on people to make them feel good. if masters players knew how to play properly then top players wouldn't mow down ladder with ridiculous winrates. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:53 KawaiiRice wrote: you can get into masters without having deep knowledge of what exactly you're doing and just macroing. your assumption is false because most masters don't really know and masters itself doesn't actually mean anything, it's just a stupid label blizzard decided to place on people to make them feel good. if masters players knew how to play properly then top players wouldn't mow down ladder with ridiculous winrates. It would very stupid of Playhem to balance their maps according to the top 0.0001%. They don't have the prize money to draw those kinds of players anyway. Balancing their maps to the 0.0001% would unbalance all the maps for the 99.9999% Now, if this were a thread about GSL then I'd certainly agree with you, because everyone in the GSL is at that highest level. But I believe that attitude is too elitist for a tournament like playhem. | ||
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hipsterHobbit
United States218 Posts
On February 04 2012 15:53 KawaiiRice wrote: you can get into masters without having deep knowledge of what exactly you're doing and just macroing. your assumption is false because most masters don't really know and masters itself doesn't actually mean anything, it's just a stupid label blizzard decided to place on people to make them feel good. if masters players knew how to play properly then top players wouldn't mow down ladder with ridiculous winrates. So what do you have to gain from reading TL? And how is your brain more suited to apply what you learn from here than said lowly "masters"? | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
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