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On February 14 2012 12:06 NeoGeoOdin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 11:55 DaemonX wrote:
Doesn't anyone remember a little game called Brood War?
Maps were NOT race balanced in that. They were never meant to be. Map adversity is what made the tournaments interesting. I want different maps that force me to change up my strategies. I voted down shakuras plateau till I learned how to do solid multi-drop openings vs Z. Now I can play the map. Is it Z favoured? Sure. Still fun.
Map balance = boring. wat? Are you seeing the SPL latelty? or, have you follow the Pro Scene BW at least this 5 last years? almost all maps were X race favorate, the only one wiith 50/50 in all races was Fighting Spirtit (gad! what a perfect map <3 <3 <3)
Dude, I know, I am agreeing with you, that was my point!!
BW didn't have race balance on maps, why does SC2 need it suddenly?
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On February 14 2012 22:34 Mentalizor wrote:
Isn't Shakuras and Cloud Kingdom the only maps where protoss has just a single 50%+ winrate in any matchup?
I think the winrates are slightly skewed by the fact that less korean protosses play playhem compared to T/Z by a decent bit.
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Silly post, in terms of title. A look at balance my ass.
According to this, late game TvP is broken in TERRANS FAVOUR. -> Lolwat.
Interesting stats, good contribution but the title is a silly claim.
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This is such a great addition to the game - thanks for the knowledge!
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On February 19 2012 08:27 DaemonX wrote:
Silly post, in terms of title. A look at balance my ass.
According to this, late game TvP is broken in TERRANS FAVOUR. -> Lolwat.
Interesting stats, good contribution but the title is a silly claim.
Hah, have you seen TLPD winrate graphs? They do indeed agree to that TvP is terran favored from July 2011 until now, with only one months exception. You a terran player mby? 
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On February 19 2012 08:27 DaemonX wrote:
Silly post, in terms of title. A look at balance my ass.
According to this, late game TvP is broken in TERRANS FAVOUR. -> Lolwat.
Interesting stats, good contribution but the title is a silly claim.
Yeah totally the stats from 31k + games from mostly masters players and progamers must be wrong and your (I must say quite eloquent and erudite, and certainly unbiased) opinion must be the right one.
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Imbalanced maps are also really good for teamleagues.
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On February 04 2012 15:53 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 15:46 ProBot wrote:On February 04 2012 15:07 KawaiiRice wrote:these stats don't really reflect balance and random masters players don't even play the game right anyway. i.e.: Metal should be way more z favored, and antiga should be incredibly terran favored. Dual Sight and Shakuras should be more T favored TvZ too. Can't really comment on the other matchups. Regardless, nice post. <3 Playhem Define "playing the game right." Not to be a dick just want to understand your point of view a bit better. I suck so i'm not going to get into anything with you but i would assume Most masters players and above have a decent idea of how to play the game hence why they're in said league. Generally speaking. But i'm silver so what do i know. you can get into masters without having deep knowledge of what exactly you're doing and just macroing. your assumption is false because most masters don't really know and masters itself doesn't actually mean anything, it's just a stupid label blizzard decided to place on people to make them feel good. if masters players knew how to play properly then top players wouldn't mow down ladder with ridiculous winrates.
starcraft II isn't supported by the upper .01% that play the game "right"- its supported by the bronze through masters players. These are the ones that allow there to be mlg's, gsl's, ipl's, ect... you need to balance the game for the 99.9 percent of the people to keep them interested. Just because MC can win pvz on dual sight doesnt mean i can.. what fun is that for me or anyone else in the 99.9% category.
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I love giant data sets like this. You get so many interesting trends and themes out of 'em.
Keep it up!
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Love the highest opening build winrate for Protoss.. Double gate.. haha
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On February 19 2012 08:27 DaemonX wrote:
Silly post, in terms of title. A look at balance my ass.
According to this, late game TvP is broken in TERRANS FAVOUR. -> Lolwat.
Interesting stats, good contribution but the title is a silly claim.
Huh? I see no breakdown of late game and early game in the stats. It just shows overall Terrans win slightly more than Protoss. Am I missing something?
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Wow, Proxy 2gate is the most successful Protoss build order...I never woulda guessed it.
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i dont think you should change existing maps (like taking the rocks of shattered temple) but instead include new maps
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I don't think these reflect true balance, as they are from a period of time which included, I believe, 2 patches. Still, interesting that Tal'Darim is apparently most balanced.
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So of the maps in the Season 6 pool, it looks like this:
Shakuras & Tal'Darim: balanced.
Metalopolis: Bad for Protoss
Shattered: Bad for Protoss, good for Terran
Antiga: bad for Protoss (v Terran)
Only 1 of the 6 listed actually favored Protoss, and then only v Terran: Cloud Kingdom.
Q: what makes Cloud better for Protoss and worse for Terran, and how can the other maps be tweaked to make them more balanced? (I'm guessing it has something to do with drops and spawn positions?) Then, how can Cloud be tweaked to make it more balanced too?
EDIT: popping to a separate thread to discuss map modifications specifically.
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EPT
