TLPD Winrate Charts: January - Page 14
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Sylailene
91 Posts
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
On February 03 2012 07:11 Sylailene wrote: My protoss heart shrunk reading international, but I still beloved in us, Aiur fighting ! we need you to rise brother! FOR AIUR!!! | ||
emc
United States3088 Posts
On February 03 2012 07:11 Oerbaa wrote: Zerg nerf inc, if not ill be surprised :O this has nothing to do with balance, it's simply win rates. When will people understand that tournaments are random and have nothing to do with balance? There are a ton of factors such as map pool, a players physical and mental condition as well as the metagame and strategies used. These win rates also have nothing to do with your ladder experiences because 99% of the people here aren't playing in tournaments that are reflected on the TLPD. Zergs win rate in the first two GSL seasons were averaged out to 50% because of Fruit dealer and Nestea winning GSL but all other zergs were getting stomped. This doesn't show balance, it again only shows us which race is winning or more like which player is winning. | ||
Eliwood5837
245 Posts
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Razuik
United States409 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On February 03 2012 04:06 Zarent wrote: A FFE is the only reliable way of playing the matchup. The various sentry based gateway expands are all not viable for various reasons that has been discussed before by me and a thousand other players. Anyway, the core issue is that fast 3 hatch is not punishable by Protoss except by VERY specific builds (+1 Zealot/Void comes to mind) and these -are- being figured out gradually, just as Stargate or DT timings were figured out before. If a Zerg gets up his ridiculously fast third without Protoss dealing damage, its essentially over. However, Protoss also cannot go -too- all in since Zerg can arbitrarily also bust the front with a roach/ling all-in. The core issue of the matchup is a combination of the following: Fast 3rd Mutas Broodlord/Infestor This can be put more simply by one big issue though. Protoss is -always- working on a timer for the entire game. We HAVE to be aggressive on the fast third and delay or kill it off, we HAVE to have blink / cannons / HT up by the time mutas come out, and we HAVE to have either a 200/200 mass of Blink Stalkers or Mothership/Archon by the time Broodlord/Infestor comes out. There simply aren't other options besides these. Sure, a P player can get funky and throw in a warp prism and DTs or whatever. But there's no legitimate way for Protoss to actually be -ahead- in the macro game and dictate the flow of the game (besides all-ins). You forgot to point out that if a P tries to play too greedy and take a 3rd too fast the Z maxes out on Roaches 12/13 minutes into the game and A-Moves you to death with 0 skill involved. | ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
These graphs are great, but I don't really like the scales. It makes the difference look a lot worse than it really is | ||
emc
United States3088 Posts
On February 03 2012 07:25 superstartran wrote: You forgot to point out that if a P tries to play too greedy and take a 3rd too fast the Z maxes out on Roaches 12/13 minutes into the game and A-Moves you to death with 0 skill involved. 0 skill? gtfo out of here kid, this isn't a balance thread. Besides if a toss doesn't have sentries by the time he gets his 3rd and can't forcefield properly then he deserves to lose. | ||
moocow2009
77 Posts
On February 03 2012 07:17 emc wrote: this has nothing to do with balance, it's simply win rates. When will people understand that tournaments are random and have nothing to do with balance? There are a ton of factors such as map pool, a players physical and mental condition as well as the metagame and strategies used. These win rates also have nothing to do with your ladder experiences because 99% of the people here aren't playing in tournaments that are reflected on the TLPD. Zergs win rate in the first two GSL seasons were averaged out to 50% because of Fruit dealer and Nestea winning GSL but all other zergs were getting stomped. This doesn't show balance, it again only shows us which race is winning or more like which player is winning. While it's true that the results of an individual tournament are affected by a variety of random factors, the sample size here is large enough to make the effect those have on the data relatively small. For every game that a zerg wins because the protoss was tired, a protoss wins because the zerg was tired. The data here may not correspond directly to people laddering, but you can't just dismiss it either. If people found a really good new terran strategy, it will have a similar effect on protoss and terran in gold league as in a pro tournament. I don't see what you mean about individual players. This now covers a total of 27000 international games played -- even if 10 players of a given were to win all of their games, that wouldn't be enough to make a significant difference. That said, you're completely correct that this is probably more the result of the metagame and map pools than overall balance. I just don't think you should dismiss this so quickly. | ||
ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
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Apollo_Shards
1210 Posts
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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bundo
Canada113 Posts
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Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Funguuuuu
United States198 Posts
I changed to Terran because of it. | ||
zdfgucker
China594 Posts
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