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Hi all!
This might be a little controversial but this is just some interesting /fun facts I looked up at http://sc2earnings.com/. Also if there is already a topic about this I apologies.
So there is no secret that Idra and Huk is representing a large part of the total wins of NA SC2 players. So I checked if the 2 of them had won more than the rest of the top 50 NA players combined (top being the number 3 to 50 highest by prize money wins). Turned out they have not, although it is actually not that far away.
This made me look a little more into the figures and I think they show well what NA:s "problem" is in the SC2 scene.
Top 2 EU and NA:
Huk + Idra = 110465$
Stephano + Naniwa = 140130$
Fairly even here, Stephanos back to back win with IPL3 and ESCW which earned him 68000$ makes EU take home this one.
If you expand this to top 3 EU and NA you get
NA = 132125$ (+Fenix)
EU = 184750$ (+White-ra)
Already here we can see that EU is starting to gain more lead compared to the top 2 comparison. The major difference is however in the players below top 3.
NA top earner 4-50: 144410$
EU top earner 4-50: 590350$
EU has 4-50 has more then 4 times the total prize earning compared to 4-50 in NA. Why this is I can only speculate but for some reason is EU and NA equal at the very top but for every step down the differences between the 2 scenes widens.
Think this has been obvious for most people watching SC2, but still thought I would be interesting to see how well the figures support this general claim.
Finally here is some perspective regarding the EU and NA differences ^^
Total wins by top 50 NA + top 50 EU SC2 players: 1051585$
Total wins by top 10 Koreans: 1450700$ 
Edit: This is only prize money earnings
Edit 2: Should probably have mentioned that it is actually America and not NA to be exact. So you have players like Killer and Fenix in there to.
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Haha interesting read! thx for this
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Thats not a lot. Did you count salaries and sponsers?
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We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year
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That's interesting. More tournaments. ESL, Playhem and all those german/russian and small-language-tournaments (like danish) will generate alot of this. Just small cups with like 150€ prize/day will quickly add up, when all the pros can basicly make it every day just as a part of their online practice.
I think it's more a question of tournaments than anything else.
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Is this only in winnings or also sponsor money?
I'm going to guess this is only winnings. Which isn't that weird then tbh. Europe has a ton more smaller tournaments in which you can rank up a lot of cash across.
Koreans doesn't have that. In return they have GSL. The "top 10 korean players" are pretty much the GSL winners.
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i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams
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On February 01 2012 21:38 llKenZyll wrote:
Thats not a lot. Did you count salaries and sponsers?
That's impossible to count, considering most details are secret.
But I do agree, salaries and sponsors do play a major role in the financial stability of professional gamers.
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Intressting information, I think its part due to all the small online cups in Europe and the fact that there are way more good players in Europe.
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On February 01 2012 21:38 llKenZyll wrote:
Thats not a lot. Did you count salaries and sponsers?
Yeah because those stuff are public knowledge....
No he didn't.
Interesting...
Although i would expect US players to actually make more money from sponsors/streams etc...dunno. Even though i am from eu, i feel a lot closer connected to them.
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Very interesting facts to know thanks
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On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams
That's not the point of the thread... Salaries are a largely private figure, so noone would ever be able to calculate it accurately.
The point of this thread is to show that there is a LOT more money in EU for the _AVERAGE_ pro-gamer... not just the top-tier of pro making salary anyways.
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I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans.
Comparatively, the US has more "huge" events, but those are so seldom won my North Americans, and thus, don't really do much to help NA earnings.
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so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe
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Im not too surprised by this.
Im not sure why, but the NA scene seems to have their big dogs (MLG, IPL, NASL), and then pretty much nothing else. EU on the other hand seems to have an absolutely massive amount of weekly cups, several tournies in the 1000-5000$ range, while also several midsize tournies (usually LANs at various places around Europe) with like 5000-15000ish prize pools.
So the question goes both ways.
How come EU cant muster more than DH (and maybe ASUS ROG should be included too) in terms of really big sized tournaments?
And how come the NA scene seems extremely lacking beyond the few big guns?
Would be cool to hear someone more well informed share their thoughts about this.
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United States8476 Posts
Earnings imbalance? Occupy Starcraft imo.
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EU has way, way more small tournaments than NA does. So fewer mid level NA players have the opportunity to earn prize money. Even MLG, which is our biggest, had the prize pool of a small tournament last year.
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On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe
That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in.
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There's no excuse for this. It's obvious EU has way wider high skill playerpool over NA. Same way as KR beats EU. Where NA may have 15 top players, EU has 50, KR has 200. Numbers straight from my ass, but giving sort of realistic picture imo. If there were more daily/weekly/monthly cups for NA, I'm sure more EU players striked at them too. It's not like the lag is bad at least, and many pros wouldn't mind about timezones either if it seemed like easy money.
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On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams
It might be true for Idra an Huk, but there other ones...i dunno. NA players who are in EU team must be paid the same than EU players with the same level.
The big black box is NA teams (Light, Reign, EG, CoL, i definitly forgot many of them). I've no idea how much money their player from NA (who are very good, of course, but not the bests ones atm) who are the 4-50, are paid.
What defines if you're right or not, it's these 4-50 salaries. And i have no clue.
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On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in.
your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several
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This is only prize money earnings. What the players earn from their sponsors/teams is not official as far as I know.
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On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several
How is it one of several reasons? The whole reasoning behind it is terrible, I don't even get where you got that argument from. "Ukraina problably has tons of good players because it's a poor country, even though the majority of countries with an impressive roster of players are rich countries like Korea, Sweden, Netherlands etc".
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On February 01 2012 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several How is it one of several reasons? The whole reasoning behind it is terrible, I don't even get where you got that argument from. "Ukraina problably has tons of good players because it's a poor country, even though the majority of countries with an impressive roster of players are rich countries like Korea, Sweden, Netherlands etc".
Honestly, it's very true.
Ukrainian players, especially, are capable of living very comfortably on a progamers salary. I've had this conversation with many Ukrainian pros. Their answers are all very similar. In Ukraine, professional Starcraft makes them high earners in comparison to other people in the country. It makes the job more sought after than it would in a place like the USA where pros can be looked down on by the average joe.
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One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
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On February 01 2012 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several How is it one of several reasons? The whole reasoning behind it is terrible, I don't even get where you got that argument from. "Ukraina problably has tons of good players because it's a poor country, even though the majority of countries with an impressive roster of players are rich countries like Korea, Sweden, Netherlands etc".
Korea is different, pc gaming is a bigger part of their culture of any other country. I dont know about sweden, but they seem to have tons of gamers too compared to other european countries so its just likelier that more swedes go pro in starcraft.
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Interesting numbers you have compiled here, i think MrBitter nails it here :
On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans
There is just money to win on EU tournaments, thanks to the long established ESL and Zotac, weekly tournaments are very common.
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Yeah the differences in tournaments is one factor here but I think it is far from the entire story. Sure IEM, DH and Assembly all have fairly big prizes and there is more EU then NA players attending them.
However they also have at least one top NA players attending them pretty much every event and more important there is always at least 2-4 top pro Koreans playing. So it is not like the EU players can just go and collect the cash either.
Last 2 DH has not had a EU player in the finals for instance.
You have a few examples of EU players that have been good at earning cash by targeting "cash" tournaments, Sjow with 43500$ in prize money (7th highest of all foreigners) comes to mind. Hard to believe but Sjow is actually the terran with the highest prize money earnings out of all of foreign terrans.
Regarding online tournaments, they are still a very small part of the of the total prize pool. Kas which is one of the most active and successful online players in the SC2 scene is "only" 17th player among foreigners.
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On February 01 2012 22:08 Marou wrote:Interesting numbers you have compiled here, i think MrBitter nails it here : Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans
There is just money to win on EU tournaments, thanks to the long established ESL and Zotac, weekly tournaments are very common.
Omg at this :
On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
So you are taking the top 50 players of a region (which is a very small sample size) and put it in perspective with the whole demographic. Although it's a nice effort, this numbers doesn't mean anything at all T_T
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alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max
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On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several
That argument would make sense... IF
White-Ra, Dimaga nd Strelok would not have been SC/BW "pro's" (as far as foreigners could become that) where barely any money could be made.
Don't forget, you don't just become a "earning" progamer because you want this. For every poor eastern european with a fast enough computer there are probably 2-3 rich students with too much time in western europe  .
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On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max
cant you enter eu cups? the lag and timezones(early afternoon) cant be THAT bad.
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On February 01 2012 22:06 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:57 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several How is it one of several reasons? The whole reasoning behind it is terrible, I don't even get where you got that argument from. "Ukraina problably has tons of good players because it's a poor country, even though the majority of countries with an impressive roster of players are rich countries like Korea, Sweden, Netherlands etc". Honestly, it's very true. Ukrainian players, especially, are capable of living very comfortably on a progamers salary. I've had this conversation with many Ukrainian pros. Their answers are all very similar. In Ukraine, professional Starcraft makes them high earners in comparison to other people in the country. It makes the job more sought after than it would in a place like the USA where pros can be looked down on by the average joe.
I'm not disputing that. However, I would make the case that regardless of how cheap or expensive a country is, if you're top dog in SC2 in that country such as naniwa for sweden and whitera for ukraine, you will live comfortably of your income, while if you're less of a "star", you will live like the average joe. If it was a huge deal that players get an acceptable status from progaming, we should see a lot more ukranian pros relative to expensive countries, and we should expect to see many other eastern european countries with far stronger SC2 rosters than we do.
I just don't think this reason has any impact at all on a countrys performance in SC2, I think it's all about infrastructure, which is why korea is top dog without contest.
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On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
Hehe yeah it is interesting and could be a factor, but still I think culture/history is the key here. I wonder how India would be doing in this calculation ^^
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On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max
No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam
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but EU scene is by far superior to the NA scene.
the top 5 is maybe the same but EU have dozen of good players while in korea the top five is alone in the dark and gm with nobody to play ladder
i think previous comment are right and if we compare to the number of gamer i'm pretty confident whe can find an heavy correlation
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On February 01 2012 21:53 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:51 Tobberoth wrote:On February 01 2012 21:46 isleyofthenorth wrote:
so europe has more top players than na? not a surprise at all, has been like that in almost every pc game, rts fps or whatever, na on the other hand has much more console players(halo cod etc..) and fighting game players.
Also that money is worth more in some parts of europe. the living costs in eastern europe are much cheaper than in west/central/northern europe which is very similar to the us. thats why so many great players come from the ukraine for example, one of the poorest countries in europe That last argument is terrible. Sweden has the best pro lineup of all of Europe while being one of the more expensive countries to live in. your argument is terrible. where did i ever say that was the sole reason? its just ONE of several
pretty sure you're argument is a lot worse. the ukraine has top players because its a big place where its too cold to go outside some of the time, aka stay in and go on the computer. the fact it is poorer than some european countries is nothing to do with it.
the recurring theme of countries having good esports scenes is how much time they spend on the PC, same as any sport its a grassroots numbers game. the main cause of increased PC use in the 1st world is it being cold outside.
On February 01 2012 22:14 plouer wrote:
but EU scene is by far superior to the NA scene.
the top 5 is maybe the same but EU have dozen of good players while in korea the top five is alone in the dark and gm with nobody to play ladder
i think previous comment are right and if we compare to the number of gamer i'm pretty confident whe can find an heavy correlation
i wouldnt say that at all. im not gonna comment on the numbers but as a general feel, i dont look at any NA or EU player and say, no one from the other side of the atlantic cant beat them, the field is so close together that it appears to be either luck or the fact that europe has a higher population that causes any disparity in winnings. the western scene is so clumped together in terms of skill that on any 1 day either 'side' could win a league, so theres little point in saying 1 side is better.
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On February 01 2012 22:10 Marou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:08 Marou wrote:Interesting numbers you have compiled here, i think MrBitter nails it here : On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans
There is just money to win on EU tournaments, thanks to the long established ESL and Zotac, weekly tournaments are very common. Omg at this : Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway. So you are taking the top 50 players of a region (which is a very small sample size) and put it in perspective with the whole demographic. Although it's a nice effort, this numbers doesn't mean anything at all T_T
No, I actually took only the top 10 from Souh Korea, further invalidating my results However, even though the method itself was catastrophic, I believe the general picture isn't that far off (I'll leave it up to someone else to define what factor my "that" represents ).
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By that logic england with its rainy wheater should be a top nation .
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england uses apathy
its super effective
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On February 01 2012 22:13 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max cant you enter eu cups? the lag and timezones(early afternoon) cant be THAT bad.
well alot of the cups start at around 7-8am my time and the lag is pretty bad(the tolerance level to lag varies from player to player, i personally cant stand it but i still force myself to practice on eu from time to time), i usually just play in invitationals/tl weeklys, i think the only online cups that ive recently played in were the call4kings tournament + 2 gss(grubbys tour) + the tl weeklys(assuming we dont count the iem qualis as an online tournament)
i dont keep count of how active the other na players are in online cups but id assume their activity level is somewhat similar to mine, that reason alone is obv going to make for a huge disproportion if ur trying to compare eu vs na winnings, that being said eu players are much better than na player anyways
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Interesting way of seeing it. Never really thought about it this way. =)
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On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam
Agree.
Polt might not be the best exemple, because he can compensate the lag with his awesome builds and game sens, but he plays from Korea to EU servers.
I think it's a bit hard for cup like sunday's GO4SC2 (start a 2:00 PM, very early in the morning for NA players, even from east coast), but yes, there are many cups in EU that NA players can play, with a "decent" lag. And i'm sure that viewers from both side of Atlantic would like to see more NA players in theses cups.
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On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
would be interesting to know the winnings per capita ratio between american and canadian players, dunno why ud bunch us together.. usa has like 300 million + inhabitants while canada has like 35million
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On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans.
Comparatively, the US has more "huge" events, but those are so seldom won my North Americans, and thus, don't really do much to help NA earnings.
Pretty much this explains the difference.
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On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam
what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p
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On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam
Yeah, I've never understood why we don't get more "serious" NA progamers in EU tournaments... (I understand the players that are also students not wanting to wake up at 4-5 am on a school day when they would also miss morning classes).
On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:
what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p
It takes $60 or a call to blizzard to get an EU account...
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Korea > Europe > America
This is no news, all data show the same result ^^
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This is something I did for other Starcraft related goodness, I also pulled the information from sc2earnings
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qlvGm.png)
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Isn't this basic statistics? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Players_(All)
If you just have a small sample size (top 3 players) the findings may fluctuate a lot, whereas if you have a large sample size (50+) you're more likely to get an accurate result, assuming that:
a) an average US player is equally good as an average EU player
b) there are more EU players than NA players.
Can somebody explain if I'm missing something here?
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I believe that the 'competitive practice' people get in these tournaments is the reason why there appears to be more high level players in EU. NA seems to be more about show matches, player streams and big events.
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Interesting read, thanks for sharing!
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On February 01 2012 22:35 Longshank wrote:
I believe that the 'competitive practice' people get in these tournaments is the reason why there appears to be more high level players in EU. NA seems to be more about show matches, player streams and big events.
yup and thats why na players are starting to lag behind the eu/korean scene, the immense popularity of online cups within the eu scene is the main reason why their improving at a much faster rate than na players
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On February 01 2012 21:46 Kreb wrote:
Im not too surprised by this.
Im not sure why, but the NA scene seems to have their big dogs (MLG, IPL, NASL), and then pretty much nothing else. EU on the other hand seems to have an absolutely massive amount of weekly cups, several tournies in the 1000-5000$ range, while also several midsize tournies (usually LANs at various places around Europe) with like 5000-15000ish prize pools.
So the question goes both ways.
How come EU cant muster more than DH (and maybe ASUS ROG should be included too) in terms of really big sized tournaments?
And how come the NA scene seems extremely lacking beyond the few big guns?
Would be cool to hear someone more well informed share their thoughts about this.
I can't speak for Canada or Mexico but we have a culture where we don't give much respect for minor leagues in any competition. You must bring an A level tournament format or GTHO.
I would even posit that if there was a way to track viewing habits of Europeans and Americans you would see a lot more Americans who watch GSL and little of their own scene than Europeans with this tendency.
But how could we gather this data?
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I'm not really surprised honestly. Many NA players make their money doing non-competition related things like coaching, streaming and such. EU players have a ton of small cups and LANs all the time, and some of them have pretty good prices.
And there's the fact that EU simply has more players capable of winning tournaments. NA has a few who are REALLY good, but there are more "mid-tier" pros in the EU scene.
+ You don't consider salary. I would imagine that some American teams pay their players quite well.
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INteresteing, but not surpising ofc.
Think it`s a mixture of everything; General higher skill-level, more tournaments, more players, more publicity and more community involved people.
Korea still holding it down by a HUGE fucking margin, still with only the gsl and recently KSL and various in-house tournaments. Abit of a surprise even considering their koreans. If korea had anywhere near the amount of competition(half), it would be nuts. Take GM Korea and u got the talent pool of EU, NA, SEA and whatnot combined.
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On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p
I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s.
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At this point i wonder how a tournament scene should even grow on NA. As soon as it's even remotely profitable Koreans will just flood it. Europe is kinda "protected" by the lag but even here Polt is taking home the moneys...
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On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s.
i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag?
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I would be more interested in different size of e-sports market. What would be the total prize money in all NA tourney? EU? KR? Come on, players are traveling all around the world. Nationality of player is less interesting than the current market size of e-sports.
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On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year
Yeah I totally know what you are saying switching would be profitable
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On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans.
Comparatively, the US has more "huge" events, but those are so seldom won my North Americans, and thus, don't really do much to help NA earnings.
and all those "huge" tournements arent won by na players most of the time.... 
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On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag?
Then the motivation is really the problem. Lots of sport players have way stricter schedules than that, and 7am is pretty common for any working person around the world (go quit SC2, pick up a normal job thats not totally next door, and Im pretty sure we're talking about close to those times).
Not to mention theres been several occasions where players have abided such times, Koreans in NASL come to mind.
I understand it might not be your cup of tea to do that, you might not play SC2 that serious, and theres nothing wrong in that. But you shouldnt downplay it like its something inhuman. If becoming among the best of the best at SC2 was truly your goal in life, getting up early when needed would be the least thing (and probably one of the easier requirements to comply to) expected of you.
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On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag?
You mean like Koreans do for most cups they're invited to?
Yes, I do!
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On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:
what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p
There is a ZOTAC cup every saturday as well (http://sc2na.zotac-cup.com/)! It is played under the same conditions as the EU cup, but there are much less players competing in it... I don't know why, but NA players don't seem to want to play in weekly cups :/
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On February 01 2012 23:21 leandroqm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag? You mean like Koreans do for most cups they're invited to? Yes, I do!
those are invitationals that have huge prizepools ^^, im talking about weekly cups : ]
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On February 01 2012 23:22 aScaris wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:
what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p There is a ZOTAC cup every saturday as well (http://sc2na.zotac-cup.com/)! It is played under the same conditions as the EU cup, but there are much less players competing in it... I don't know why, but NA players don't seem to want to play in weekly cups :/
Maybe more people work on weekends in NA? I know I haven't been able to enter a cup in a year(Team liquid cup, Zotac, etc) due to working the weekend
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On February 01 2012 23:23 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:21 leandroqm wrote:On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag? You mean like Koreans do for most cups they're invited to? Yes, I do! those are invitationals that have huge prizepools ^^, im talking about weekly cups : ]
Sure, but they play it because they think they can win.
It is a bet.
Don't you think you can win any online cups held on the eu server?
I think you could
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On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year
Source? I know it's on TL somewhere, I just don't know where Flash's yearly earnings is posted.
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EU just has better players and more money which also allows them to travel to American events and win those too.
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On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams
you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ?
dream on.
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On February 01 2012 23:26 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year Source? I know it's on TL somewhere, I just don't know where Flash's yearly earnings is posted.
I believe Flash stated in an interview once(or hinted at it) that his salary is around 200k, not including prize winnings. Don't hold me for my word on that though.
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On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on.
If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though.
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On February 01 2012 23:54 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on. If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though.
on average europeans have much higher salarys than americans because teams contract players as individuals, they contract players based off their accomplishments/potential and not where they come from : D
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On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag?
Its still better than playing them at 2 AM after a whole day of gaming....
Sorry couldn't resist.
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On February 01 2012 23:49 Stress wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:26 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year Source? I know it's on TL somewhere, I just don't know where Flash's yearly earnings is posted. I believe Flash stated in an interview once(or hinted at it) that his salary is around 200k, not including prize winnings. Don't hold me for my word on that though.
is here
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On February 01 2012 23:08 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year Yeah I totally know what you are saying switching would be profitable
Comments like this are so hilarious. I actually want to see more people actually believe this so I can laugh.
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On February 01 2012 23:54 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on. If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though.
100k$, 80k€ per a year? It's the salary of an french experimented Actuary (a man who creates financial products in banks) for exemple. His work products millions...
Not a chance this rumor can be true :D
If it was true, it would mean that EG's boss is very rich and very mad.
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It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference.
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On February 01 2012 23:26 leandroqm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:23 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 23:21 leandroqm wrote:On February 01 2012 23:05 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:56 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:14 MrBitter wrote:On February 01 2012 22:12 mTwTT1 wrote:
alot of the eu players have won like 40-50% of their winnings from online cups TT, na has shitty online cups compared to the eu scene.. since the release of the game ive played in like 3-4 online cups max No one's stopping you from playing in our online cups, Payam what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p I meant the EU cups, mate. The Zotacs and the Go4SC2s. i cant even motivate myself to practice on the na ladder because it feels like blizzard has us locked up in a jail cell, do u srsly expect me to wake up at 7am to play in a cup with 200ms lag? You mean like Koreans do for most cups they're invited to? Yes, I do! those are invitationals that have huge prizepools ^^, im talking about weekly cups : ] Sure, but they play it because they think they can win. It is a bet. Don't you think you can win any online cups held on the eu server? I think you could
would be a cool thing to try but i dont think he would make it....
lately more players are moving away from online cups though (go4sc2 at least)
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On February 02 2012 00:09 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:54 karpo wrote:On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on. If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though. 100k$, 80k€ per a year? It's the salary of an french experimented Actuary (a man who creates financial products in banks) for exemple. His work products millions... Not a chance this rumor can be true :D If it was true, it would mean that EG's boss is very rich and very mad.
Yeah that's crazy, huk is not bad but I don't think he could be paid more per year than an engineer for example.
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On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference.
Noone has any idea of any of their salaries
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On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference.
you think so?
i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing
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On February 01 2012 23:25 Twistacles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:22 aScaris wrote:On February 01 2012 22:30 mTwTT1 wrote:
what weekly cups do na players have tho? we only have playhems ;p There is a ZOTAC cup every saturday as well (http://sc2na.zotac-cup.com/)! It is played under the same conditions as the EU cup, but there are much less players competing in it... I don't know why, but NA players don't seem to want to play in weekly cups :/ Maybe more people work on weekends in NA? I know I haven't been able to enter a cup in a year(Team liquid cup, Zotac, etc) due to working the weekend
but people who play sc2 as their job. look at the "top" NA players, any of the 100 or so people who play sc2 as their job, almost none care about these weekend cups. only a few people i can think of such as axslav or similar seem to play in them often, the other players just dont seem to give 2 shits.
where as almost every "top" eu player is playing in these cups, every week or so you can watch the biggest names from europe playing for $100.
the pure numbers side doesnt really matter, maybe theres 1000s of casual euro players in these things, but when you look at who plays in the top 128 or so of these things the euro side is 100 times better.
when the european pro's talk about these cups they say its a great way to get real BoX practice against other big names, that kinda thing really helps. but all the americans seem to think about them is "hurr ladder heroes dont mean anything" or similar. i dont want to be too harsh on american players because im sure there are exceptions to what ive seen but at the same time it really feels like americans like to 'save' themselves for only playing in the big leages, like they feel they are too important or whatever, when getting knocked out in ro32 every invite is hardly god tier status.
On February 02 2012 00:09 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:54 karpo wrote:On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on. If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though. 100k$, 80k€ per a year? It's the salary of an french experimented Actuary (a man who creates financial products in banks) for exemple. His work products millions... Not a chance this rumor can be true :D If it was true, it would mean that EG's boss is very rich and very mad.
the number being thrown around at the time was "5 figures" which people seem to see as 100k+ but 5 figures is 10k-99k. it was supposed "life changing" too. so i think we are looking at around the 50-60k mark. but you wont get anything more reliable than a guess.
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On February 02 2012 00:12 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:09 Agathon wrote:On February 01 2012 23:54 karpo wrote:On February 01 2012 23:47 kinglemon wrote:On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams you honestly think that americans earn 400k more salary than europeans ? dream on. If you consider the rumors that huk's salary was supposed to be 100k+ it's not impossible. I'm pretty sure Idra and InControl have decent salaries too. 400k total might be too much though. 100k$, 80k€ per a year? It's the salary of an french experimented Actuary (a man who creates financial products in banks) for exemple. His work products millions... Not a chance this rumor can be true :D If it was true, it would mean that EG's boss is very rich and very mad. Yeah that's crazy, huk is not bad but I don't think he could be paid more per year than an engineer for example.
Yeah, something like 25k is credible. 30k max.
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Not very surprising results really
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On February 01 2012 22:45 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:46 Kreb wrote:
Im not too surprised by this.
Im not sure why, but the NA scene seems to have their big dogs (MLG, IPL, NASL), and then pretty much nothing else. EU on the other hand seems to have an absolutely massive amount of weekly cups, several tournies in the 1000-5000$ range, while also several midsize tournies (usually LANs at various places around Europe) with like 5000-15000ish prize pools.
So the question goes both ways.
How come EU cant muster more than DH (and maybe ASUS ROG should be included too) in terms of really big sized tournaments?
And how come the NA scene seems extremely lacking beyond the few big guns?
Would be cool to hear someone more well informed share their thoughts about this. I can't speak for Canada or Mexico but we have a culture where we don't give much respect for minor leagues in any competition. You must bring an A level tournament format or GTHO. I would even posit that if there was a way to track viewing habits of Europeans and Americans you would see a lot more Americans who watch GSL and little of their own scene than Europeans with this tendency. But how could we gather this data?
Here are the only statistics GOm released that I know of: http://www.complexitygaming.com/news/2969/
There could some truth to what you were saying, atleast the countries in eastern europe does not seem to be so interested in GSL
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On February 02 2012 00:02 0kz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:49 Stress wrote:On February 01 2012 23:26 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year Source? I know it's on TL somewhere, I just don't know where Flash's yearly earnings is posted. I believe Flash stated in an interview once(or hinted at it) that his salary is around 200k, not including prize winnings. Don't hold me for my word on that though. is here
That's old he signed a new contract after that, iirc the salary could go up to 400k if he got all his bonusses.
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I expected EU to be ahead but not by this much! Interesting read.
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On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing
I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho).
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well if you look at how most NA tournaments are crowded with koreans, where as european tournaments actually have fewer koreans, the koreans end up taking most of the NA tournament cash home.
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On February 02 2012 00:20 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho).
now the big question is to know if these ~1500€ are before or after taxes
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On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
How is this relevant?SC2 players pool mb,but still not that important, seeing how the op takes the very top of each group.
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I know that TT1 and a small minority of NA players were paid considerable salary, however the vast majority of low tier NA pros get paid zero salary.
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Because their resulsts hardly allow it to call them "pros".
Everytime i hear something about some NA pro i ask myself:
Would anyone really look after this guy if he was Polish or Ukranian? Most of the times the answer is "No, at least not really."... Yet on NA these guys seem to be small "stars"...
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On February 01 2012 21:42 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:38 llKenZyll wrote:
Thats not a lot. Did you count salaries and sponsers? That's impossible to count, considering most details are secret. But I do agree, salaries and sponsors do play a major role in the financial stability of professional gamers.
The aim here is to compare tournaments results by earnings, so salaries have nothing to with it.
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On February 02 2012 00:27 tekos44 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:20 Agathon wrote:On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho). now the big question is to know if these ~1500€ are before or after taxes
if they're not stupid taxes should not be higher than 10%.
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On February 02 2012 00:32 Velr wrote:
Because their resulsts hardly allow it to call them "pros".
Fewer tournaments will always equate to fewer results. 90% of the EU pros wouldn't produce any 'results' at mlgs either.
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On February 02 2012 00:27 tekos44 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:20 Agathon wrote:On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho). now the big question is to know if these ~1500€ are before or after taxes
I can't believe your french and don't know that 1100 € is the after taxes value.
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On February 02 2012 00:34 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:32 Velr wrote:
Because their resulsts hardly allow it to call them "pros". Fewer tournaments will always equate to fewer results. 90% of the EU pros wouldn't produce any 'results' at mlgs either.
Many of the euros that went actually did pretty decent.. At least compared to avg. NA pro... Go check it .
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On February 02 2012 00:35 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:34 goswser wrote:On February 02 2012 00:32 Velr wrote:
Because their resulsts hardly allow it to call them "pros". Fewer tournaments will always equate to fewer results. 90% of the EU pros wouldn't produce any 'results' at mlgs either. Many of the euros that went actually did pretty decent.. At least compared to avg. NA pro... Go check it .
Many of the top 10% of euros you mean....I don't mean Morrow or Whitera, I mean BabyKnight, Syz would likely not do nearly as well.
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Not really that surprising though if uve been following the scene the whole time
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On February 02 2012 00:27 tekos44 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:20 Agathon wrote:On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho). now the big question is to know if these ~1500€ are before or after taxes
1100 are after "a part" of taxes (CSG, CRDS, Healthcare, retierment, etc...). From these ~1500, he might pay few hundred € per year, maybe 5 or 6. My first salary was 1500€, but it was 12 years ago, i don't remember how much was my taxes.
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On February 02 2012 00:35 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:27 tekos44 wrote:On February 02 2012 00:20 Agathon wrote:On February 02 2012 00:13 sVnteen wrote:On February 02 2012 00:09 TheTurk wrote:
It'd be cool if you could include salaries.
It would even out the top 2 NA-EU difference. you think so? i mean nani is on quantic with only sase as another player with high salary and for stephano i think he gets a lot after that whole col vs milennium thing I've no source, because it was on a stream, but as i heard, it's "few hundred € above the french minimum salary for a full time job", so few (1? 5? 10? no clue) hundred above 1100 € per month. In addition, he gets Money from Millenium TV when he streams on it, and of course, from his own stream on Twitch (dunno how much tho). now the big question is to know if these ~1500€ are before or after taxes I can't believe your french and don't know that 1100 € is the after taxes value.
We have maaaaaaany taxes
1100€ is the number on the pay check, a part of taxes are included (~20% of the salary), but not all them. But we pay taxes in addition. In the case of a 18k€ year salary, it's close of 1k€ for a single french.
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On February 01 2012 22:06 iMAniaC wrote:
One could also take into account the populations:
USA + Canada ≈ 350M inhabitants
EU + Russia + Ukraine ≈ 700M inhabitants
South Korea ≈ 50M inhabitants
Winnings per inhabitants, top 4-50 for Europe and America and top 10 for SK:
USA + Canada ≈ 4,1e-4
EU+ Russia + Ukraine ≈ 8,4e-4
South Korea = 290e-4
So per inhabitant, Europeans are winning twice as much as Americans and South Koreans are winning 70 times more as Americans and 35 times more than Europeans.
It's a very rough overview and I'm not sure it actually tells us anything, but that's the numbers, anyway.
According to SC2ranks.com there are 869,038 players on eu and 862,739 on NA+SA.
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all/30
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Ah, the good old income gap. Even sc2 pros live with it. Not too surprising, other than the fact that fenix is the 3rd highest earner in na
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NA teams pay WAY less salary than EU teams. There's only a few that can even afford to pay good salaries to players. In EU there's a plethora of teams that can.
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On February 02 2012 00:37 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 00:35 Velr wrote:On February 02 2012 00:34 goswser wrote:On February 02 2012 00:32 Velr wrote:
Because their resulsts hardly allow it to call them "pros". Fewer tournaments will always equate to fewer results. 90% of the EU pros wouldn't produce any 'results' at mlgs either. Many of the euros that went actually did pretty decent.. At least compared to avg. NA pro... Go check it . Many of the top 10% of euros you mean....I don't mean Morrow or Whitera, I mean BabyKnight, Syz would likely not do nearly as well.
and all the american pros go 0-5 in their groups too. if the americans feel too stuck up to attend anything "less" than an mlg, then get smashed at mlg same as all the other white guys, how can you look down on people willing to actually try to compete on any level and just do their best. by competing everything they can, these players you listed who "wont do well at mlg" have to right mindset to 1 day be the best, 90% of them will still fail, but without trying theres 100% chance to fail. americans come across like they are 'too good' for a weekend cup, even though that drive to compete, and that competition experience are what create a champion.
On February 02 2012 00:58 Bagration wrote:
Ah, the good old income gap. Even sc2 pros live with it. Not too surprising, other than the fact that fenix is the 3rd highest earner in na
we are the 99%! occupy GSL
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top #1 korea > top3 euro > top 3 NA. LOL
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europeans also make more money in tournaments cause they are more skilled. many europeans play na tours and take their money over there while almost never vise versa :p
but it is true in general that na has alot less money for grabs than in europe (when you discount huge events or lan events)
i dont know why we still talk about this its been proven over and over in many different ways that eu has more top tier players than na
On February 01 2012 22:40 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:35 Longshank wrote:
I believe that the 'competitive practice' people get in these tournaments is the reason why there appears to be more high level players in EU. NA seems to be more about show matches, player streams and big events. yup and thats why na players are starting to lag behind the eu/korean scene, the immense popularity of online cups within the eu scene is the main reason why their improving at a much faster rate than na players
i dont know about that. most top players in europe came from wc3, bw or other progaming backgrounds while for na you didnt ever have many serious gamers in the first place. there has been many cups that attempted to have weeklys in na server but the interest was never there as it were in europe even from the beta stage
i doubt the spew of money made so many people in europe motivated to become progamers
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Yeah wc3 NA was pretty poor.Dont know about bw tho.
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On February 02 2012 01:18 KenChan wrote:
Yeah wc3 NA was pretty poor.Dont know about bw tho.
ye europe totally owned na back then aswell ^^;
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Canada1169 Posts
I'm also fairly sure the 3-50 goes to the fact how many European Online Tournaments there are as well as how a lot of NA's big talent is in Korea so they dont play small tourneys/online stuff
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The problem with any comparison of prize money is that the scene is small enough that one big win can skew the whole thing and a lot of tournaments (MLG especially) have value beyond their small prize money unlike say NASL which pays out more than it's value to the scene.
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On February 01 2012 21:45 MrBitter wrote:
I suspect that a lot of these statistics also hinge on that fact that the European tournament scene is a lot more active.
For every daily event in NA, EU has 2, and 500 euro weekly and monthly events are incredible common here, and these tourneys are almost exclusively played in, and thus won by Europeans.
Comparatively, the US has more "huge" events, but those are so seldom won my North Americans, and thus, don't really do much to help NA earnings.
Nailed it! I hope the rest of you consider ^ before you start making assumptions.
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On February 02 2012 01:09 MorroW wrote:europeans also make more money in tournaments cause they are more skilled. many europeans play na tours and take their money over there while almost never vise versa :p but it is true in general that na has alot less money for grabs than in europe (when you discount huge events or lan events) i dont know why we still talk about this its been proven over and over in many different ways that eu has more top tier players than na Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:40 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:35 Longshank wrote:
I believe that the 'competitive practice' people get in these tournaments is the reason why there appears to be more high level players in EU. NA seems to be more about show matches, player streams and big events. yup and thats why na players are starting to lag behind the eu/korean scene, the immense popularity of online cups within the eu scene is the main reason why their improving at a much faster rate than na players i dont know about that. most top players in europe came from wc3, bw or other progaming backgrounds while for na you didnt ever have many serious gamers in the first place. there has been many cups that attempted to have weeklys in na server but the interest was never there as it were in europe even from the beta stage i doubt the spew of money made so many people in europe motivated to become progamers
i know that the eu players that switched over were MUCH(much much much better, dunno about the wc3 scene but that was the case for the bw scene) better than the na players but that wasnt the point i was trying to make, wat i ment was that the overabundance of online cups(be it invitationals or weeklys) is one of the main reasons why eu players are improving at a faster rate than na players, online tours motivate players to practice for them and the tours themselves are good practice, alot of good players match up against one another and theyre also good a simulation of lan tournaments, it basically promotes competitiveness within the eu scene
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On February 02 2012 01:09 MorroW wrote:europeans also make more money in tournaments cause they are more skilled. many europeans play na tours and take their money over there while almost never vise versa :p but it is true in general that na has alot less money for grabs than in europe (when you discount huge events or lan events) i dont know why we still talk about this its been proven over and over in many different ways that eu has more top tier players than na Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:40 mTwTT1 wrote:On February 01 2012 22:35 Longshank wrote:
I believe that the 'competitive practice' people get in these tournaments is the reason why there appears to be more high level players in EU. NA seems to be more about show matches, player streams and big events. yup and thats why na players are starting to lag behind the eu/korean scene, the immense popularity of online cups within the eu scene is the main reason why their improving at a much faster rate than na players i dont know about that. most top players in europe came from wc3, bw or other progaming backgrounds while for na you didnt ever have many serious gamers in the first place. there has been many cups that attempted to have weeklys in na server but the interest was never there as it were in europe even from the beta stage i doubt the spew of money made so many people in europe motivated to become progamers
I dno, the playhem dailies on NA are getting over 200-256 people nightly now.
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US: Player exposure, ROI, a few massive tourneys, invitationals, and "opens" where only those who attend every event (the "ROI" players) have any opportunity to win.
EU: Plenty of online, daily and weekly cups where everyone has a fair chance to win, qualifiers for big events where the famous players usually lose, and the GUNNAR GESTAPO don't appear to decide which players should be famous; their skill does (at least from what I've seen as someone in the US).
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On February 02 2012 02:02 vdale wrote:I agree, sc2earnings.com doesn't count many small tournaments. An example: http://www.sc2charts.net/en/edb/ranking/prizesHere Goody has 16649€ (~22k$) winnings, but in sc2earnings.com he only has $11990.
yea and they only count individual leagues aswell, no team leagues and such
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I dont think SC2 earnings count any wins below 50$. Then again I cant imagine that the wins below 50$ constitute more then a fraction of the total prize earnings.
The fact that TT1 pointed out, that they dont count team wins, could probably make a bigger differences. Not sure if it would benefit EU or NA though.
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These earnings are actually pretty insane when you consider it was all made in under 2 years.
Stephano is crazy though, that $80,000 was made in such a short time. Imagine what it will be like for him and all the other top players within the next 5 years.
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On February 01 2012 21:40 Cirqueenflex wrote:
i honestly think if you add in the salary of each player the numbers will be fairly even. At least i imagine top NA teams to pay their players way more than european teams
nope
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is it really that suprising? NA really isn't that competitive..
this is like one of those research projects where people state what everyone already knows..
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On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year
Seriously?! Wow. That's hilarious! Are we even counting his tournament wins?
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NA was never as competitive in SCBW and WC3 aswell. I think it's mostly a bad mindset of the community in general that makes people too easily famous and kinda arrogant and less humble, and the direct consequence of that is the lack of improvement and less will to practice. I might be totally wrong though, just my impression on the matter.
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On February 01 2012 21:48 NrGmonk wrote:
Earnings imbalance? Occupy Starcraft imo.
Lol, we are the 99%
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On February 02 2012 01:51 CheesusCrust wrote:
Fenix isn't from NA. . .
... Fenix is Peruvian, and on ladder he is NA
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On February 02 2012 02:56 aTnClouD wrote:
NA was never as competitive in SCBW and WC3 aswell. I think it's mostly a bad mindset of the community in general that makes people too easily famous and kinda arrogant and less humble, and the direct consequence of that is the lack of improvement and less will to practice. I might be totally wrong though, just my impression on the matter.
Alas, most gamers in the US prefer FPS over RTS, and even then most gamers are casuals. And unless you have been blessed by the Gods themselves with divine talent, being a casual will get you nowhere.
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On February 02 2012 02:59 GreEny K wrote:... Fenix is Peruvian, and on ladder he is NA
peru ladder = LA, if i ladder on eu does that make me european?
na = canada mexico usa
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On February 02 2012 03:00 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 02:59 GreEny K wrote:On February 02 2012 01:51 CheesusCrust wrote:
Fenix isn't from NA. . . ... Fenix is Peruvian, and on ladder he is NA peru ladder = LA, if i ladder on eu does that make me european? na = canada mexico usa
I know where Peru is, thanks. But I don't think he made a category for LA players... There would be like 3 well known players...
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On February 02 2012 03:00 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 02:56 aTnClouD wrote:
NA was never as competitive in SCBW and WC3 aswell. I think it's mostly a bad mindset of the community in general that makes people too easily famous and kinda arrogant and less humble, and the direct consequence of that is the lack of improvement and less will to practice. I might be totally wrong though, just my impression on the matter. Alas, most gamers in the US prefer FPS over RTS, and even then most gamers are casuals. And unless you have been blessed by the Gods themselves with divine talent, being a casual will get you nowhere.
To give you an example compare for example Ukraine to USA, less players but way higher quality. The problem is the mindset of the players and what's around them.
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I totally agree with cloud.
If you exclude HuK and Idra and maybe sheth (if he shows his AAA-Game) then NA is far inferior to europe in terms of the amount of good players.
But on the other hand with the MLG north america has one of the best organized tourneys.
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On February 02 2012 03:06 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 03:00 Bagration wrote:On February 02 2012 02:56 aTnClouD wrote:
NA was never as competitive in SCBW and WC3 aswell. I think it's mostly a bad mindset of the community in general that makes people too easily famous and kinda arrogant and less humble, and the direct consequence of that is the lack of improvement and less will to practice. I might be totally wrong though, just my impression on the matter. Alas, most gamers in the US prefer FPS over RTS, and even then most gamers are casuals. And unless you have been blessed by the Gods themselves with divine talent, being a casual will get you nowhere. To give you an example compare for example Ukraine to USA, less players but way higher quality. The problem is the mindset of the players and what's around them.
Wich is kinda sad because of the incredible sponsership potential NA has. Yes way more then currently is going on.
But i agree, seems to be a mindset problem.
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On February 02 2012 02:52 sc14s wrote:
is it really that suprising? NA really isn't that competitive..
this is like one of those research projects where people state what everyone already knows..
Heh. He just backed something that everyone already "thinks they know" with some empirical figures. You really think that's the same as what you said? You are very negative... why did you post in this thread?
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Well I think the big difference in the top 50s is the fact that EU holds soooooooooooo many online daily/weekly/monthly events + all the TB invitaionals and all of the minor events. US has nothing.
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On February 02 2012 04:02 QNdie wrote:
Well I think the big difference in the top 50s is the fact that EU holds soooooooooooo many online daily/weekly/monthly events + all the TB invitaionals and all of the minor events. US has nothing.
I agree. There are many tournaments in EU. So EU players have the possibility of have bigger earnings.
Also Fenix is not from NA. He is from LA.
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On February 02 2012 04:09 EdSlyB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 04:02 QNdie wrote:
Well I think the big difference in the top 50s is the fact that EU holds soooooooooooo many online daily/weekly/monthly events + all the TB invitaionals and all of the minor events. US has nothing. I agree. There are many tournaments in EU. So EU players have the possibility of have bigger earnings. Also Fenix is not from NA. He is from LA.
Rofl?
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On February 02 2012 04:14 Flowjo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 04:09 EdSlyB wrote:On February 02 2012 04:02 QNdie wrote:
Well I think the big difference in the top 50s is the fact that EU holds soooooooooooo many online daily/weekly/monthly events + all the TB invitaionals and all of the minor events. US has nothing. I agree. There are many tournaments in EU. So EU players have the possibility of have bigger earnings. Also Fenix is not from NA. He is from LA. Rofl?
He's from Latin America, señor.
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On February 02 2012 00:02 0kz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 23:49 Stress wrote:On February 01 2012 23:26 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 01 2012 21:39 Boonbag wrote:
We're just so rich we throw money at them like nothing
edit : its funny the EU total figures is like a little more than what Flash makes in a year Source? I know it's on TL somewhere, I just don't know where Flash's yearly earnings is posted. I believe Flash stated in an interview once(or hinted at it) that his salary is around 200k, not including prize winnings. Don't hold me for my word on that though. is here
outdated
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On February 02 2012 04:51 Tump wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 04:14 Flowjo wrote:On February 02 2012 04:09 EdSlyB wrote:On February 02 2012 04:02 QNdie wrote:
Well I think the big difference in the top 50s is the fact that EU holds soooooooooooo many online daily/weekly/monthly events + all the TB invitaionals and all of the minor events. US has nothing. I agree. There are many tournaments in EU. So EU players have the possibility of have bigger earnings. Also Fenix is not from NA. He is from LA. Rofl? He's from Latin America, señor.
I just laughed out loud at work :D
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It's pretty crazy that Fenix is still in the top 50 despite having 0 accomplishments in 2011, goes to show how much potential he showed in 2010 ~~
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On February 02 2012 05:39 Xeris wrote:
It's pretty crazy that Fenix is still in the top 50 despite having 0 accomplishments in 2011, goes to show how much potential he showed in 2010 ~~
Top 50 of what? Well shouldnt be a surprise that he is top 50 in NA at least, since he is number 3. Well I can agree that I am a bit surprised to that he is number 3. Since I was not aware that he had won/got high place in any major tournament, but then again not so many NA players have.
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NA is just lousy in computergames, it's just not as popular as in other places to be a 'pro gamer'. Is there any computergame dominated by NA?
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On February 02 2012 08:26 Markwerf wrote:
NA is just lousy in computergames, it's just not as popular as in other places to be a 'pro gamer'. Is there any computergame dominated by NA?
Halo! ^^
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Very interesting. It is most likely due to the ridiculous amounts of online cups and small tournaments that they have in Europe
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On February 02 2012 08:43 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 08:26 Markwerf wrote:
NA is just lousy in computergames, it's just not as popular as in other places to be a 'pro gamer'. Is there any computergame dominated by NA? Halo! ^^
Computer
Well yeah, PC gaming seems indeed overshadowed in NA. They had a decent era with 1.6 and Quake though
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On February 02 2012 03:00 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 02:56 aTnClouD wrote:
NA was never as competitive in SCBW and WC3 aswell. I think it's mostly a bad mindset of the community in general that makes people too easily famous and kinda arrogant and less humble, and the direct consequence of that is the lack of improvement and less will to practice. I might be totally wrong though, just my impression on the matter. Alas, most gamers in the US prefer FPS over RTS, and even then most gamers are casuals. And unless you have been blessed by the Gods themselves with divine talent, being a casual will get you nowhere.
yeah, thats why you totally dominated Quake and CS... oh... wait .
I don't know why but the US-Mindset seems not to be made for "E-Sports"..
And before anyone sais, well progaming isn't popular in the US. IT IS NOWHERE NEAR popular in europe... not even close to something like popular. There is harldy a noticeable diffrence from now compared to 10 years ago, except for the professional barcraft (which we also organised back then, but not in a pub but in some other "open" room).
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Depending on prize money is not sustainable for PRO gamers. Prize money is a cherry on top of it. Wages and sponsors are the bread and butter. This is exactly where SC2 fails.
With a decent job you can get 40k € per year. If you get 40k € a year as an SC2 player you belong to the very top of the food chain. Whoever walks the way of a pro gamer iis not in for the money, but for e fame and the love for the game.
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considering how bad GM's are.
i think basing your stats on top 50 and what not is just plain silly. and inaccurate
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On February 02 2012 08:50 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 08:43 Wohmfg wrote:On February 02 2012 08:26 Markwerf wrote:
NA is just lousy in computergames, it's just not as popular as in other places to be a 'pro gamer'. Is there any computergame dominated by NA? Halo! ^^ ComputerWell yeah, PC gaming seems indeed overshadowed in NA. They had a decent era with 1.6 and Quake though
I never really saw the distinction before, thanks for the clarification!
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Doesn't Europe have more people than NA? O_o
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Doesn't Korea have more people than EU and NA combined? Oh wait..
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On February 02 2012 09:00 Velr wrote:
Doesn't Korea have more people than EU and NA combined? Oh wait..
qft
Bringing population into this is way off, just..way the fuck off
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most tournaments majorly are held in NA
but its skill to make money not nationality.
so you want to nerf EUs?
haha
similar to race distribution of gsl
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Well, NA does have MLG, but then again, MLG is incredibly cheap with their prizepools. Probably due to the fact that Blizz takes 50% ad revenue if the cash prize is more than 5k, so in EU you got all of these small tours hovering around that figure, it really does add up.
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not surprising, more tournies in eu
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Didn't realize there has been over $2 million in prize money in SC2. Kinda awesome.
Wonder if those stats are influenced more by EU players being better or by EU having more tournaments?
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On February 02 2012 17:45 Nihilnovi wrote:
Well, NA does have MLG, but then again, MLG is incredibly cheap with their prizepools. Probably due to the fact that Blizz takes 50% ad revenue if the cash prize is more than 5k, so in EU you got all of these small tours hovering around that figure, it really does add up.
Well MLG's cheap prize pool went over 5k in total. First place was 5k but you have to remember 1-8 were getting paid so it was like 11k a tournament or something.
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On February 02 2012 17:57 nastyyy wrote:
Didn't realize there has been over $2 million in prize money in SC2. Kinda awesome.
Wonder if those stats are influenced more by EU players being better or by EU having more tournaments?
Both i guess.
In addition, the fact there are more tournaments with cash prize helps that players train more to win and give the opportunites to some hidden gems (Like it was the case with Nerchio, Stephano or Beastyqt for instence) to coming out of shadow.
I'm sure there are players in NA who are very good, but maybe don't have enough opportunities to show what they can do.
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Both of them are overpaid but that will change as Koreans meet up with them more. Those SK MC deals will bring the pain to their bottom lines.
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I'd like to she what the numbers would be like with salary. Both Huk, Idra make 100k salary each.
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On February 13 2012 14:40 fox77 wrote:
I'd like to she what the numbers would be like with salary. Both Huk, Idra make 100k salary each.
No. They. Don't.
This has been discussed numerous times on TL, these players do not have contracts with EG for that much. Both players have said that they don't as well.
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Well, taking a look at TLPD SC2 International (and the first NA player on the Elo rankings is Sheth at 29t, then Huk on top of Idra on page 2 and Namchir lower down.
Whereas EU has Stephano at 5, Happy at 7, Thorzain, Mana, Bly, Nani, Kas and Ret all above Sheth.
Oh, and like half of the list (at least at the top) are Koreans, whether on Korean or Foreign teams.
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Europe is better then NA this was alrdy known
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This clearly shows its totally obvious that everyone on NA sucks and all of EU is better.
Both servers have great players, as a matter of fact, there is quite a few NA players that practice with EU players etc. NA teams compete with EU teams and vice versa. The only non NA server I have laddered on personally is Korea, which most players play on if they can anyways.
To say EU IS BETTER THEN NA or vice versa is just silly imo. Both regions will have a foreigner on top at different given points in time. The players would rather be competing at the top level of Koreans, and compared to them rather then then another foreign region.
<3 all foreigners. I just like seeing them win in general, no matter where they might be from!
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Wow, that's a pretty gross disparity. Doesn't EU have a lot of weekly tournament style things though?
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The difference at the top is just because EU is better. The crazy disparity below the top is pretty pointless due to the difference in tournament activity.
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Not really surprising, EU has always been on top of NA in many games.
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I don't care how much money they NA/EU have taken off each other... they need to win some money vs Koreans to prove they are getting better
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would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something
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On February 13 2012 15:26 RuMCaKe wrote:
To say EU IS BETTER THEN NA or vice versa is just silly imo. Both regions will have a foreigner on top at different given points in time. The players would rather be competing at the top level of Koreans, and compared to them rather then then another foreign region.
I agree with this.
Also, its better to factor in the fact that there are many more EU professional players compared to NA.
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We have a lot more better players then NA. Not their fault, just the way it is at the moment. That's why we earn more.
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I don't think it's unfair to say EU > NA though I wouldn't be basing this on the 'winnings' argument.
Sure, NA has some huge events. But the fact that they are so big attracts a fair number of non-NA players. EU on the other hand also has some big events but they have loads of smaller events that are wicked for anyone living in the EU since they aren't so large that NA/KR will participate.
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Another big factor I haven't seen mentioned is that Koreans can't play on EU and in EU server based tournaments because of the latency. Where as Koreans can play on NA and regularly do and win their daily/weekly cups.
If Koreans could play on the EU server without latency (or with NA latency) then the EU scene would have won a lot less money.
I'm not saying EU isn't overall better than NA it clearly is but the lack of Korean players is just another important factor to consider.
The major EU Lan's like Assembly and Dreamhack also tend to invite less Koreans (and generally worse Koreans) than MLG and IPL so while EU players don't actually generally win Dreamhack (although they do win Assembly at it has no/almost no Koreans) they do take up a lot more of the top spots. Where as MLG and IPL invite many more Koreans who then take up a massive chunk of the overall prize pool.
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On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something
Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this.
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On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this.
Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format
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On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format
A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance.
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On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance.
I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio
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On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio
Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team.
EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players.
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SeleCT is more korean than anything. Top 5 EU would be something like Naniwa, Kas, SaSe, Stephano, Nerchio/DIMAGA/ThorZaIN/Ret... and then we still have players like MaNa, DIMAGA, BratOK, Strelok, Happy, WhiteRa, SjoW, Titan, Beastyqt.... EU has like 5x the amount of top tier players NA has. And the top 5 is also stronger than NA's top 5 imo. I'd even say just Sweden or Ukraine would be closer than NA vs EU.
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On February 14 2012 02:45 Kaitokid wrote:
SeleCT is more korean than anything. Top 5 EU would be something like Naniwa, Kas, SaSe, Stephano, Nerchio/DIMAGA/ThorZaIN/Ret... and then we still have players like MaNa, DIMAGA, BratOK, Strelok, Happy, WhiteRa, SjoW, Titan, Beastyqt.... EU has like 5x the amount of top tier players NA has. And the top 5 is also stronger than NA's top 5 imo. I'd even say just Sweden or Ukraine would be closer than NA vs EU.
Select is considered by most people to be a foreign player and has represented the USA at many events. He's American in the same way Podolski and Klose play for Germany.
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On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players.
Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better.
Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/
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oh come on, you can not seriously have that childish discussion.
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On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/
You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted.
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On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted.
Not a singe chance. Case closed.
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On February 14 2012 03:30 demitap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. Not a singe chance. Case closed.
Huk, Idra, Select and Sheth are more than capable of beating any European player without it even being an upset.
Huk is the most successfull and best foreigner of all time and Idra is the 3rd most successful.
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On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance.
What? Is this tournament The World vs Europe? You're claiming you're making an "NA" team but you're adding in Major (south american) and Select (korean).
Either way- Sweden alone with its 9mil population would smash this.
NaNiWa
ThorZaIN
SaSe
MorroW
SjoW
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On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted.
The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though.
Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger.
But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality.
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On February 14 2012 03:36 NewK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. What? Is this tournament The World vs Europe? You're claiming you're making an "NA" team but you're adding in Major (south american) and Select (korean). Either way- Sweden alone with its 9mil population would smash this. NaNiWa ThorZaIN SaSe MorroW SjoW
Mexico is part of North America plus Major I believe is a US citizen anyway even if it's not his country of birth.
Select represents the USA at tournaments, therefore he qualifies as American just like countless football players do not play for their country of birth.
Your Sweden team is not far better than an NA team. All of my NA players could absolute beat any of those Swedish players.
We're not talking a lineup of MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea here.
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On February 14 2012 03:38 softan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though. Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger. But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality.
If the Korean lineup was MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea I really struggle to see anything beating that with a better than 1 in 20 ratio.
The EU top 5 is probably marginally better (because Idra and Huk are in poor form and NA lacks a 5th player) but NA could easily won comfortably on a good day.
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On February 14 2012 03:43 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:38 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though. Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger. But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality. If the Korean lineup was MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea I really struggle to see anything beating that with a better than 1 in 20 ratio. The EU top 5 is probably marginally better (because Idra and Huk are in poor form and NA lacks a 5th player) but NA could easily won comfortably on a good day.
I still think Idra and Huk are better than sheth and kiwikaki despite their poor form. I'm having real trouble seeing your na team beating EU. You lack a 4th and a 5th player.
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EU has more weekly cups and major offline tournaments than the US. I think that's the main reason. Also the EU ladder is more competetive which results in a deeper player pool in general.
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On February 14 2012 03:34 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:30 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. Not a singe chance. Case closed. Huk, Idra, Select and Sheth are more than capable of beating any European player without it even being an upset. Huk is the most successfull and best foreigner of all time and Idra is the 3rd most successful.
HuK? IdrA? IdrA is far from top europiend level, even tho he plays sc2 full time, and huk? huk was good, now he is realy jus a mediocre, i cant remember what tournament it was, but he even didnt made it out of group stage with only europeans and na wihout koreans, sheth is quite good, select might take game of someone, if it would be 4 top europeans against your 4 top NA you mentioned that i think results would be somethink like 4-1 if select would win and 4-2 if sheth would win also.
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On February 14 2012 03:41 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:36 NewK wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. What? Is this tournament The World vs Europe? You're claiming you're making an "NA" team but you're adding in Major (south american) and Select (korean). Either way- Sweden alone with its 9mil population would smash this. NaNiWa ThorZaIN SaSe MorroW SjoW Mexico is part of North America plus Major I believe is a US citizen anyway even if it's not his country of birth. Select represents the USA at tournaments, therefore he qualifies as American just like countless football players do not play for their country of birth. Your Sweden team is not far better than an NA team. All of my NA players could absolute beat any of those Swedish players. We're not talking a lineup of MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea here.
Err... what? He does not reperesent america. He is not an american citizen. There is ZERO football players who reperesents another country without being a citizen so your arguments are out the window. If you ever check LR threads or liquipedia, he only reperesents Korea. MC lived in Sweden during dreamhack sthlm invitational so I'll replace SjoW with MC in my list then by your logic Oh, and no. Major is not an american citizen and Mexico is a part of Central america.
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EU so much better, no matter what format, cant even believe there is any doubt about that.
Nerchio
Kas
Stephano
Mana
WhiteRa
Anytime that team would win. And there is like 5-10 players beside that ready to step in and do about as good an effort. You got a team where you barely can match EU on 4-5 spot.
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I do wish they would have another showmatch because all this debate is basically useless unless someone pulls out some tournament results instead of going "Oh SWEDEN we win" or "HuK is soo good" In reality this is like having 2 third world countries try to prove themselves that they aren't the worst. Mean while SK is a first world country.
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On February 14 2012 03:55 DreamChaser wrote:
I do wish they would have another showmatch because all this debate is basically useless unless someone pulls out some tournament results instead of going "Oh SWEDEN we win" or "HuK is soo good" In reality this is like having 2 third world countries try to prove themselves that they aren't the worst. Mean while SK is a first world country.
But for how long will that result be eligable this time then? But I do like your metaphor or simile or whatever it's called
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On February 14 2012 03:53 NewK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:41 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:36 NewK wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:On February 13 2012 22:51 raser wrote:
would be fun with another EU vs NA showmatch like we had a year ago or something Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. What? Is this tournament The World vs Europe? You're claiming you're making an "NA" team but you're adding in Major (south american) and Select (korean). Either way- Sweden alone with its 9mil population would smash this. NaNiWa ThorZaIN SaSe MorroW SjoW Mexico is part of North America plus Major I believe is a US citizen anyway even if it's not his country of birth. Select represents the USA at tournaments, therefore he qualifies as American just like countless football players do not play for their country of birth. Your Sweden team is not far better than an NA team. All of my NA players could absolute beat any of those Swedish players. We're not talking a lineup of MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea here. Err... what? He does not reperesent america. He is not an american citizen. There is ZERO football players who reperesents another country without being a citizen so your arguments are out the window. If you ever check LR threads or liquipedia, he only reperesents Korea. MC lived in Sweden during dreamhack sthlm invitational so I'll replace SjoW with MC in my list then by your logic Oh, and no. Major is not an american citizen and Mexico is a part of Central america.
Select has lived in the US for several years and represented the USA at Blizzcon twice.
Central America is not a continent. Mexico is part of North America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_America
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On February 14 2012 03:55 DreamChaser wrote:
I do wish they would have another showmatch because all this debate is basically useless unless someone pulls out some tournament results instead of going "Oh SWEDEN we win" or "HuK is soo good" In reality this is like having 2 third world countries try to prove themselves that they aren't the worst. Mean while SK is a first world country.
It wouldn't really mean a lot as both sides are capable of winning.
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On February 14 2012 03:46 softan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:43 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:38 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though. Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger. But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality. If the Korean lineup was MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea I really struggle to see anything beating that with a better than 1 in 20 ratio. The EU top 5 is probably marginally better (because Idra and Huk are in poor form and NA lacks a 5th player) but NA could easily won comfortably on a good day. I still think Idra and Huk are better than sheth and kiwikaki despite their poor form. I'm having real trouble seeing your na team beating EU. You lack a 4th and a 5th player.
Sheth's a really good player who always excels in team leagues and has excellent ZvP for sniping Naniwa and Sase (who are weak PvZ).
On February 14 2012 03:51 demitap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:34 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:30 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:On February 14 2012 01:15 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
Depending on the format NA could absolutely win this. Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. Not a singe chance. Case closed. Huk, Idra, Select and Sheth are more than capable of beating any European player without it even being an upset. Huk is the most successfull and best foreigner of all time and Idra is the 3rd most successful. HuK? IdrA? IdrA is far from top europiend level, even tho he plays sc2 full time, and huk? huk was good, now he is realy jus a mediocre, i cant remember what tournament it was, but he even didnt made it out of group stage with only europeans and na wihout koreans, sheth is quite good, select might take game of someone, if it would be 4 top europeans against your 4 top NA you mentioned that i think results would be somethink like 4-1 if select would win and 4-2 if sheth would win also.
Last month Idra played badly but he's still won IEM China, took 4th at MLG Orlando and won ASUS ROG Invitation within the last few months.
Huk is also slumping but was Code S for most of 2011 and alongside Stephano is the only player to win a major LAN with a reasonable number of good Koreans (which he did twice).
Naniwa, Sase, Stephano, Morrow, Thorzain have all had loads of tournaments where they have played like total shit and lost to bad players. Everyone is a scrub on their worst day.
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I'm fairly certain that more top Americans go to Korea to train than Europeans as well.
That should have something to do with the results.
As well as the # of tournaments in Europe compared to North America
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On February 14 2012 04:05 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:46 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:43 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:38 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
[quote]
Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though. Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger. But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality. If the Korean lineup was MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea I really struggle to see anything beating that with a better than 1 in 20 ratio. The EU top 5 is probably marginally better (because Idra and Huk are in poor form and NA lacks a 5th player) but NA could easily won comfortably on a good day. I still think Idra and Huk are better than sheth and kiwikaki despite their poor form. I'm having real trouble seeing your na team beating EU. You lack a 4th and a 5th player. Sheth's a really good player who always excels in team leagues and has excellent ZvP for sniping Naniwa and Sase (who are weak PvZ). Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:51 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:34 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:30 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 01:21 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
[quote]
Why do you think that? :p Pretty sure Eu would close that tourney no matter the format A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. Not a singe chance. Case closed. Huk, Idra, Select and Sheth are more than capable of beating any European player without it even being an upset. Huk is the most successfull and best foreigner of all time and Idra is the 3rd most successful. HuK? IdrA? IdrA is far from top europiend level, even tho he plays sc2 full time, and huk? huk was good, now he is realy jus a mediocre, i cant remember what tournament it was, but he even didnt made it out of group stage with only europeans and na wihout koreans, sheth is quite good, select might take game of someone, if it would be 4 top europeans against your 4 top NA you mentioned that i think results would be somethink like 4-1 if select would win and 4-2 if sheth would win also. Last month Idra played badly but he's still won IEM China, took 4th at MLG Orlando and won ASUS ROG Invitation within the last few months. Huk is also slumping but was Code S for most of 2011 and alongside Stephano is the only player to win a major LAN with a reasonable number of good Koreans (which he did twice). Naniwa, Sase, Stephano, Morrow, Thorzain have all had loads of tournaments where they have played like total shit and lost to bad players. Everyone is a scrub on their worst day.
when was IEM China? like Half a yeah ago? since then IdrA havent won anythink, and huk? dramhack years ago? mlg half a ears ago? while nani took MLG global invitation 1st and providence 2nd beating koreans like MVP and NesTea (twice), stephano is raping cups online and won at least 2 major events in half a year, check liquipedia for more results if you still think that NA could win.
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Europe hosts a TON of weekly,daily and small tornaments, compared to na
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I'm fairly certain Stephano is from Nebraska.
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On February 14 2012 04:13 demitap wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:05 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:46 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:43 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:38 softan wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. The difference isn't that huge between top tier players. There's ALWAYS a pretty good chance. Even the very best players lose 30% of the time or something like that They'd stand a chance against top 5 korean team as well. They'd probably lose and they'd probably lose vs the top 5 eu players as well I think. Obviously they'd have a much better chance against europeans than against top 5 koreans though. Maybe it's bias that's talking but I do think eu has a slightly better top 5 lineup in comparison to na and if you go further, like top 20 the disparity grows bigger. But korea owns everyone, in both quanitity and quality. If the Korean lineup was MMA, MVP, MC, DRG and Nestea I really struggle to see anything beating that with a better than 1 in 20 ratio. The EU top 5 is probably marginally better (because Idra and Huk are in poor form and NA lacks a 5th player) but NA could easily won comfortably on a good day. I still think Idra and Huk are better than sheth and kiwikaki despite their poor form. I'm having real trouble seeing your na team beating EU. You lack a 4th and a 5th player. Sheth's a really good player who always excels in team leagues and has excellent ZvP for sniping Naniwa and Sase (who are weak PvZ). On February 14 2012 03:51 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:34 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:30 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 03:20 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:08 demitap wrote:On February 14 2012 02:38 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Frankon wrote:On February 14 2012 01:54 Seraphone wrote:
[quote]
A team of Huk, Idra, Select, Sheth and Kiwikaki (or maybe Major) is capable of beating any EU 5 man team in a Pro League or Winners League format. Europe could definitely win as well but NA would have a good chance. I'll raise you Kas, Stephano, White-RA, Ret, MaNa and the sub bench of Thorzain, Morrow, Beasty, Happy, Grubby and especially for Select - Goody, Nerchio Depth is worthless, you only need five players and the five I picked for NA could compete with any EU team. EU has a lot more good players but the best NA players are as good as any EU players. Not really, just try thinking deeper and you'll realize that EU has way more talented players, just check any team leagues or other cups, and you'll realize that eu players are better. Yeah NA has palyers like HuK(doing terrible lately) and Select but what else? Desrow? Destiny? while EU has Stephano who would take any of NA players easily, Kas, Naniwa, DIMAGA, Thorzain, Ret and lost of players who could beat any of NA top's/ You should consider reading sometime. I fully agree that EU has more good players, but in an NA vs EU showmatch using any format currently used by IPL, GSTL, NASTL or EG Masters etc.. then NA has a good chance of winning. Which is the point of the post I originally quoted. Not a singe chance. Case closed. Huk, Idra, Select and Sheth are more than capable of beating any European player without it even being an upset. Huk is the most successfull and best foreigner of all time and Idra is the 3rd most successful. HuK? IdrA? IdrA is far from top europiend level, even tho he plays sc2 full time, and huk? huk was good, now he is realy jus a mediocre, i cant remember what tournament it was, but he even didnt made it out of group stage with only europeans and na wihout koreans, sheth is quite good, select might take game of someone, if it would be 4 top europeans against your 4 top NA you mentioned that i think results would be somethink like 4-1 if select would win and 4-2 if sheth would win also. Last month Idra played badly but he's still won IEM China, took 4th at MLG Orlando and won ASUS ROG Invitation within the last few months. Huk is also slumping but was Code S for most of 2011 and alongside Stephano is the only player to win a major LAN with a reasonable number of good Koreans (which he did twice). Naniwa, Sase, Stephano, Morrow, Thorzain have all had loads of tournaments where they have played like total shit and lost to bad players. Everyone is a scrub on their worst day. when was IEM China? like Half a yeah ago? since then IdrA havent won anythink, and huk? dramhack years ago? mlg half a ears ago? while nani took MLG global invitation 1st and providence 2nd beating koreans like MVP and NesTea (twice), stephano is raping cups online and won at least 2 major events in half a year, check liquipedia for more results if you still think that NA could win.
Firstly, no one gives a shit about online cups. They mean nothing at all ever. You either win on LAN or you didn't win.
Naniwa's Providence run is a bit of a farce because of the format but regardless it was a good result (but don't you dare for one second act like him coming second from a starting position of the semi final in even in the same universe as Leenock coming first from the open bracket). He's still been facerolled against Koreans since then many times.
Stephano has been playing badly when it matters since ESWC. He didn't really deliver in Korea, played badly at Dreamhack and Homestory and failed to qualify for either IEM. He can win all the online cups he likes but they don't mean anything.
IEM China was 4 months ago and ASUS ROG was 2 months ago. Which is more recent than the last time Stephano won a major LAN and Naniwa hasn't won a LAN since MLG Dallas (a now meaningless event seen as it lacked Koreans).
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On February 14 2012 04:32 Seraphone wrote:
Stephano has been playing badly when it matters since ESWC. He didn't really deliver in Korea, played badly at Dreamhack and Homestory and failed to qualify for either IEM. He can win all the online cups he likes but they don't mean anything.
IEM China was 4 months ago and ASUS ROG was 2 months ago. Which is more recent than the last time Stephano won a major LAN and Naniwa hasn't won a LAN since MLG Dallas (a now meaningless event seen as it lacked Koreans).
1. Stephano won the IPL 4 UK Qualifiers which were held after ASUS ROG.
2. Naniwa won the MLG Invitational by beating Nesta and MVP in an offline setting, for comparision at ASUS ROG Idra played Sjow, WhiteRa and Select.
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Interesting read but I don't know if all of these numbers are factored in correctly, like others have said before me, the salaries and sponsors, ect. don't seem to be factored into these. Interesting read nevertheless! Thanks!
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Wish there was some kind of showdown with BO7 proleague formate and a ace match with EU vs NA vs KR. That would've been so awesome.
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On February 14 2012 05:09 Taiki wrote:
Wish there was some kind of showdown with BO7 proleague formate and a ace match with EU vs NA vs KR. That would've been so awesome.
Nation wars would be awesome provided there's enough money on the line to make all the best players play.
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Sweden,Germany + Ukraine would beat NA :D
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This has been addressed several times, NA is weaker than the other servers barring what Idra/Huk manage to win.
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On February 14 2012 04:10 TyrionSC2 wrote:
I'm fairly certain that more top Americans go to Korea to train than Europeans as well.
That should have something to do with the results.
As well as the # of tournaments in Europe compared to North America
Amount of players going to Korea to train is fairly even.
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More European pros---> More prizemoney won by europen pros.
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On February 14 2012 06:20 ampson wrote:
More European pros---> More prizemoney won by europen pros.
Well that is true, but that does not influence that the top 4-50 EU earns a lot more then the top 4-50 American players.
EU has a few more players with prize earnings compared to America but the difference is relatively small.
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EPT
