update: BIGGER, better and now also uploaded on EU!
Salt is a training tool which enables saving and loading the game in multiplayer matches with practice partners! It is designed to help people test out the timing and execution of all aspects of their play and I have recieved positive responses from Bronze players, pro players/casters (Qxc and Husky) and many people from all levels in between.
To use the tool a player simply types "save" or "load" into chat and they can jump to whatever point in the game they want. For a simple look at how this works and how it can be used you can watch the episode of HuskyStarcraft where he did a review/tutorial on it as part of a new series.
(note, near the end of the clip his opponent clicks on the "restart" button hence the confussion)
He does a good job of outlining some uses for this which are holding timing attacks and practicing micro in real world engagements. It is also useful to develop build orders to test out what a build order is weak against, different variations on a build order and which paths work best when transitioning, as well as practicing games where spawn location plays a role as it lets you chose which starting location each player begins at.
To use simply enter the custom maps section of Battlenet and search for "SALT" and there should be a number of the maps in the list.
LADDER / TOURNAMENT: SALT Antiga Shipyard SALT Entombed Valley SALT Cloud Kingdom SALT Metalopolis SALT Shakuras Plateau SALT Shattered Temple SALT Tal'Darim Altar
TOURNAMENT: SALT Dual Sight SALT Crevasse SALT Daybreak SALT Terminus
NOT IN COMPETITIVE USE: SALT Xel'naga Caverns SALT Bel'shir swamp (one of my own maps, not balance tested)
MORE MAPS: coming soon
If you use custom hotkeys for control groups then you will need to edit the file SALTkeybindings.SC2Banks which will be found in your banks file.+ Show Spoiler +
Start the game and it will create a default file for you, if you do not know where it is located do a search of you SC2 folder and you should find it. To change the hotkey for control group 1 to the letter 'q' find the line that says <Value string="1"/> and change it to <Value string="q"/>. all letters, numbers and F1-F12 keys are allowed.
In the future I will be looking into being able to save the game as a file so that it can be shared with others, distributed to help people become better gamers, included in help requests (eg. "Help. What should I do in this situation?") and used in tournaments in the case of a player who gets disconnected.
I sincerely hope that you all find this to be a useful tool.
Holy shit I can't believe something like this hasn't been released already. At first I thought it was going to be something potentially bannable when you called it a mod, but it looks like that's not a matter at hand.
On January 25 2012 10:47 Grobyc wrote: Holy shit I can't believe something like this hasn't been released already. At first I thought it was going to be something potentially bannable when you called it a mod, but it looks like that's not a matter at hand.
Thanks, I updated the OP to say that it is a custom game mod.
It's probably a far fetch, but could this possibly be implemented to keep track of game state in tournament games, so in case the game drops it can be reloaded? That would be pretty cool.
Can you use it to save the game after a disconnect? it would solve a lot of tournament issues if you can continue the game after the person got dropped
This is really cool. I must have wasted hours trying to practice certain builds against practice partners and having to do the opening every time we want to re-game.
On January 25 2012 11:09 Deathfate wrote: Can you use it to save the game after a disconnect? it would solve a lot of tournament issues if you can continue the game after the person got dropped
I was thinking the same thing. How awesome would it be to just reload from where the game was if a disconnect happened. The only problem I can see from that is both players might forget what was going on in the game (I mean it would take a few minutes to get everything set up again then to start in a game might be kinda like "what was I doing before I dropped?") xD.
The thread I mentioned was asking for help testing and bug fixing.
keep track of game state in tournament games
use it to save the game after a disconnect?
As amazing as this functionality would be...
At the moment the game is saved into memory and is erased if a player leaves the game. However I will now begin working on tackling this issue so that may be solved in future updates
The other problem is that one of my main design goals was that the mod should in no way impede game play. I consider that if the mod degrades the gameplay then it is a failure. Currently it takes about 1 second to save the state in the early game and in the late game it takes a few seconds. If the game were to automatically save state every 5 minutes or so then I think the small glitch in gameplay would be enough to really put the players off and get in the way of spectators watching a really awesome SC2 game.
I can imagine small scale tournaments where an observer can save the game when they want to and then after the match the game state file could be shared. That way you get to be able to jump straight into the game that you were just spectating and try your own hand at it.
Hey, I just wanted and express my opinion on how great of a training tool this could be for people that actually know how to practice. A large part of getting good at anything is understanding how to practice it (Starcraft or otherwise), and being forced to start your practice at the same point in every game (and even more so at the easiest point in the game) is a severe limitation. My map editing skills are fairly weak, and I've spent many fruitless nights trying to best replicate a point in specific games I've played against practice partners, getting unsatisfactory results at best. Assuming this works as advertised, this could save serious players hours of practice time each week. I feel much of my best practice in Broodwar stemmed from the saved games I played against my teammates, and I've always been frustrated that the function wasn't implemented in Starcraft II. I would love to eventually have a saved game version of all maps used in the modern tournament scene in addition to the ladder maps (I understand that's probably a huge request though).
Thank you so much for doing this and making your work public. I don't know if I could help in anyway, but if you think I could be useful, feel free to fire a message my way.
This is pretty slick. I'm gonna have to practice engagements and micro with this. Thanks, and please port to TDA!
EDIT: What this is really good for is practicing late-game scenarios. You get to practice early-game stuff all the time, but practicing things like HT WP drop micro doesn't come too often.
On January 25 2012 11:37 Butteryllama wrote: Hey, I just wanted and express my opinion on how great of a training tool this could be for people that actually know how to practice. A large part of getting good at anything is understanding how to practice it (Starcraft or otherwise), and being forced to start your practice at the same point in every game (and even more so at the easiest point in the game) is a severe limitation. My map editing skills are fairly weak, and I've spent many fruitless nights trying to best replicate a point in specific games I've played against practice partners, getting unsatisfactory results at best. Assuming this works as advertised, this could save serious players hours of practice time each week. I feel much of my best practice in Broodwar stemmed from the saved games I played against my teammates, and I've always been frustrated that the function wasn't implemented in Starcraft II. I would love to eventually have a saved game version of all maps used in the modern tournament scene in addition to the ladder maps (I understand that's probably a huge request though).
Thank you so much for doing this and making your work public. I don't know if I could help in anyway, but if you think I could be useful, feel free to fire a message my way.
Thanks, I'm glad to know there is a healthy demand for this in the higher leagues.
If you find it to be a useful training tool and you know of people that could really benefit from this then do them a favour and let them know.
If you have tried it out and like it there are two things everyone can do to help get the word out. 1) tell your friends about all the good things that make it great! 2) tell me about any of the bad things that make it horrible
As for maps, it takes me about 5-10 minutes to port the mod to a new map. There is a limit of how many maps you can have uploaded (I think it is about 20 or so?).
The main issue is finding where to download the maps from. If you download a map off of Battlenet and try and edit it and re-upload it there can be a lot of issues. (pretty sure these are bugs but it might be some sort of strange Battlenet protection feature). So at the moment I am looking for map packs to download them externally from Battlenet and then upload them with the SALT mod in it.
So, i assume this is NA only for now ^^. Couldn't find anything under "salt" at least on EU.
Also touching again on the idea of automatically saving disconnect games; maybe it would not be neccesary to save in intervals. Is there something like a "disconnect trigger" in the mapmaper?
I think its also important, that race/spawn loc selection takes place in the lobby, not ingame. It makes the map "cleaner", more standard and more similiar to the melee maps everybody is used to; and it would not disturbe the gameplay as much, which was one of your goals.
Typing "save" during a game, especially late game, is also interrupting gameflow imo, a hotkey would be a better alternative I think. Optimally, the whole saving process would be integrated in the blizzard UI, for example in the pause interface or menu interface, but as far as I can tell the mapmaker does not support customization of blizz UI ,yet ( might change for HOTS ).
Love that you are taking the time to do this^^ , keep it up and if you need my EU account to upload maps , PM
On January 26 2012 20:46 bugabinga wrote: So, i assume this is NA only for now ^^. Couldn't find anything under "salt" at least on EU.
Also touching again on the idea of automatically saving disconnect games; maybe it would not be neccesary to save in intervals. Is there something like a "disconnect trigger" in the mapmaper?
I think its also important, that race/spawn loc selection takes place in the lobby, not ingame. It makes the map "cleaner", more standard and more similiar to the melee maps everybody is used to; and it would not disturbe the gameplay as much, which was one of your goals.
Typing "save" during a game, especially late game, is also interrupting gameflow imo, a hotkey would be a better alternative I think. Optimally, the whole saving process would be integrated in the blizzard UI, for example in the pause interface or menu interface, but as far as I can tell the mapmaker does not support customization of blizz UI ,yet ( might change for HOTS ).
Love that you are taking the time to do this^^ , keep it up and if you need my EU account to upload maps , PM
glhf, bugabinga
Sorry, it's only on SEA and NA for the moment.
There is no "disconnect trigger" but there IS a "player leaves the game" trigger which could be used! (it won't matter if a player leaves the game on purpose) Although, when a player leaves the game all of their units stop what they were doing so when saved all the players units will be idle and probably their unit control groups (0-9 unit keys) will no longer exist. However it is probably better than nothing.
That will only work if I can save the game state as an SC2 bank file which is what I will be working on soon.
That will only work if I can save the game state as an SC2 bank file which is what I will be working on soon.
sounds awesome
can I share those bank files with my friends though ?
Yep
getting it to save as a bank file is the holy grail of training tools for me.
I am yet to do any serious research into bank files but a quick look and a few rough calculations tell me it should be possible. It will probably take me a while to complete that phase of the project.
Things like this will hopefully push Blizzard to implement this function. How it already isn't in the game considering all the connection issues and regames that tournaments have is beyond me. It worked the same in WoW though. Modders would implement something and 2 years later Blizzard would finally get around to putting it in the default UI.
For the dropped player issue it would be cool if when the game loaded up that the game would automatically pause so that the players can get their bearings.
worked on this in the past. Finally someone did it. thx alot.
Btw: i think, i found a way to save controll-groups back then. How did you save something like 60% oc in building? or lair 40% morphing. I did not find any way to do so.
I always thought it would be cool if two players could jump into a replay and start playing from a certain point, probably impossible but hey, one can dream
On January 27 2012 02:08 Sackings wrote: I always thought it would be cool if two players could jump into a replay and start playing from a certain point, probably impossible but hey, one can dream
not impossible. with this done someone could make a transformer that create such a bank file from a replay file. So lot of work but possible.
On January 27 2012 01:57 skeldark wrote: worked on this in the past. Finally someone did it. thx alot.
Btw: i think, i found a way to save controll-groups back then. How did you save something like 60% oc in building? or lair 40% morphing. I did not find any way to do so.
You found a less dodgy way to save control groups? that would be amazing if you could remember how you managed to do it.
Ooops, in my haste I forgot to mention in the OP that it doesn't currently work with buildings merging so it will not save correctly for these transitions: + Show Spoiler +
command centre -> orbital command command centre -> planetary hatch -> lair lair -> hive gateway <-> warpgate
I will update the OP to mention it as this is kind of a big deal.
I have found a way to detect 60% oc or lair 40% done. But I do not as of yet know how to create a hatchery that is 40% transitioned into a lair. I do have some ideas of how I could do it though.
On January 27 2012 01:57 skeldark wrote: worked on this in the past. Finally someone did it. thx alot.
Btw: i think, i found a way to save controll-groups back then. How did you save something like 60% oc in building? or lair 40% morphing. I did not find any way to do so.
You found a less dodgy way to save control groups? that would be amazing if you could remember how you managed to do it.
Ooops, in my haste I forgot to mention in the OP that it doesn't currently work with buildings merging so it will not save correctly for these transitions: + Show Spoiler +
command centre -> orbital command command centre -> planetary hatch -> lair lair -> hive
I will update the OP to mention it as this is kind of a big deal.
I have found a way to detect 60% oc or lair 40% done. But I do not as of yet know how to create a hatchery that is 40% transitioned into a lair. I do have some ideas of how I could do it though.
About morthing: i searched for it very long and find out there is no way to do it. Thats why i stopped back then. Like you said the problem is that you can not even find out how far its done. If you have this information you could cheat by cast a manipulated cronoboost on it tho.
controllgroups: checked it. Sorry. i worked on it but looks like i gave up oo and thought about a menu setting to recreate them.
Creep I remember creep and tumors was a big problem. did you solve that?
Creep I remember creep and tumors was a big problem. did you solve that?
Haven't had any problems with the tumours themselves. If you mean creep that remains when you load back to an earlier point then I haven't fixed that yet.
However there is a function in the trigger editor "Set creep speed" where you can set the creep spread/decay speed. So I think it should only take a moment to fix up. However it is currently 4:30 AM. It will have to wait till the morning.
Creep I remember creep and tumors was a big problem. did you solve that?
Haven't had any problems with the tumours themselves. If you mean creep that remains when you load back to an earlier point then I haven't fixed that yet.
However there is a function in the trigger editor "Set creep speed" where you can set the creep spread/decay speed. So I think it should only take a moment to fix up. However it is currently 4:30 AM. It will have to wait till the morning.
zzzZZZZzzzz
no i remember i had problems with half spread creep of a the top tumors or something. its half a year ago so i dont know for sure.
------- some other things: -you should save the 2 unit in the queuer too. i think over 2. only take bankfilesize but 2 can be kind of importand.
-you dont reload the minimap This means everytime you remove and add minerals and rocks they stack on the minimap and cause lag later on. To fix this you just give all players full map vision remove it again. Now the client refresh the minimap. The player will not even notice it.
------ BTW i can uplaod it on eu for you. Have us and eu acc.
if you dont give everyone vision for a nanosek after you change the map the min-patches and gas-gesyers will stack up and cause lag later on.
hmmm... im not sure if that happens. Do you mean that each mineral patch and guyser will have multiple models attached to it? because that doesn't happen for me.
I'll keep an eye out for it.
Your solution to the problem seems like it would create it's own host of problems. Players would be able to see if bases are mined out etcetc.
Great tool. I'm sure there are people out there who will need this time to time.
I haven't read the entire thread, but maybe if you really start expanding is to use tourney version of maps. Like for example all the GSL maps have no golds, but other tourneys still contain golds, or cross position spawn only. If pros use this in practice it may be something to consider.
Wow, this is really cool. Could certainly help just about anyone with training against certain pushes in a real world scenario on a real map instead of using the unit tester or not playing a whole custom out to get right back to one certain frame of time 8 minutes of something in. Gj
Thanks for this, works great. Always wished someone made a save system, very useful to rehearse game situations.
Had one minor issue with the keybindings: eggs in a control group are removed from the group after load. Having the creep spread restored somewhat accurately would also definitely be useful. Maybe move the Dog animation to the unit portrait area, often you'll load right before an engagement and the big overlay can be distracting.
If you need someone to publish this on EU let me know.
i was just playing with a friend and after loading a bunch of times the game went nuts. My friend never researched blink..but his stalkers had blink, he researched charge, and when we load the game at 2;30 his zelots had charge already (which is impossible). Also, the fog of war didn't updated properly. At some point we stopped at 20min, and loaded at 11min, and the fog of war looked like it was at 20min (i could see at 10min expos that were build around 17min). I think this only happened after loading the game like 6 times...but it did happen...
I can't believe there is no multiplayer save function in SC2! Anyone have a reason why blizz didn't put one in? a save button really does help practice SO much
On February 03 2012 23:53 Dauntless wrote: Please host this on EU too! Can't be that much of an effort?
I am located on the SEA region. As such, posting it to the EU region would cost me about $90 (computer games are expensive in Australia). Not to mention that I have read some horror stories about people buying accounts for other regions and then it not working or even not being able to access either account afterwards. Blizzard does not support use of multiple region clients on the one computer and so does not offer technical support if things go wrong. Blame The region locking for this part.
I could probably hand over all ownership and email the files to some stranger who lives in Europe to publish it as their own work but this doesn't sit right with me for many reasons and could potentially hinder a lot of future possibilities and places I would like to go with this. For now I am just working on trying to polish it into a really professional feeling tool. Once I am happy with that I will look more in depth at publishing to EU (maybe even forking over $ for a new sc2 account).
Since this thread has been bumped, I may as well add a few updates:
The research/upgrade bug has been tracked down and fixed! + Show Spoiler +
(thankyou to those who sent me a replay file of when it happened. It was directly because of these that I knew what the issue was)
In the next update expect to have building morphs (eg command centre -> planetary fortress) work 100%, assigning hotkeys to zerg eggs work correctly, creep and creep tumours working 100%, removal of that annoying Lyote explaining how to use the tool (it was almost as annoying as the paperclip in MS office, what was I thinking?!) and many more.
After that I plan to tackle the "save as a file" goal.
The possibilities this creates!! Reading this makes me wonder why Blizzard hasn't come up with something like this with all their people working there yet some regular TL user can make such an amazing program for free!? This and many other things like this like seeing your own personal stats over your SC2 career vs different races etc etc. Common Blizzard!!!
Haha cool! Can you implement an automated save system that saves every 10s while deleting old saves every 10s? That way if tournaments have internet issues they might be able to reload depending on how refs/players feel?
Ask Blizzard to give you a few thousands dollars for implementing a necessary feature that they have been neglecting for ages. =P Nice job, kudos to you. I think you should submit this to reddit/notify a few casters to spread the word.
This could be used to resume disconnects in tournament games and stuff if the data can be banked to file instead of just in the memory for the match.
Both players (and/or a ref) just need to watch the time the disconnect occurred, and one of them needs to save and reload. The ref/player(s) would then ensure the time displayed by the load matches the disconnect time. Obviously if a ref is present, they can put their trust in him and there'd be no real need to double-check the times.
On February 05 2012 10:05 FlamingTurd wrote: Reading this makes me wonder why Blizzard hasn't come up with something like this with all their people working there yet some regular TL user can make such an amazing program for free!? This and many other things like this like seeing your own personal stats over your SC2 career vs different races etc etc. Common Blizzard!!!
Totally. Although I don't need to hear about stuff like this to know it could have been done. Freaking Blizard talking about releasing a game "when it's ready" but starcraft 2 wasn't ready at all. What's appalling is that it's hardly made any feature progress at all over the last 2 years. Chat was added but it's kinda crap; fun-or-not was added but it's completely useless.
On February 21 2012 11:47 WigglingSquid wrote: Ask Blizzard to give you a few thousands dollars...
*sigh*, if only
about 10 minutes ago I saw that this thread had been bumped which will probably bring in some new users. So I have uploaded the newest version for people to use which is much more user friendly. When you save the game you no longer have to manually select each control group. Just type "save" and it is all done automatically!
Also a few other changes and bug fixes.
If you use custom hotkeys for control groups though you will need to edit a file to let the game know which keys you use. The first post has been updated with details about this.
As for disconnects during a tournament I do not want to save periodically as this might be a cause of lag. However I can detect when 1 player drops and save the game when that happens. But this will only be AFTER I have found a way to squeeze a save game into a tiny file (Blizz imposes small file size restrictions which to be fair is a good idea most of the time)
On February 21 2012 12:57 turtles wrote: However I can detect when 1 player drops and save the game when that happens. But this will only be AFTER I have found a way to squeeze a save game into a tiny file (Blizz imposes small file size restrictions which to be fair is a good idea most of the time)
Yeah, that sucks. I'd really just have to blame blizzard for that — not for limiting the bank file size (what is the limit BTW?), but for simply not implementing such a relatively simple feature into the game; a feature that even existed in the 13-year old ancestor of Starcraft 2 (SC1).
Wow, could a spectator just keep constantly "saving" a game like, during a tournament match? That would be pretty freaking sweet to implement into high-level tournament play, curing some of the plagues related to BNet2.0 and having to be online to play.
On February 21 2012 11:47 WigglingSquid wrote: Ask Blizzard to give you a few thousands dollars...
*sigh*, if only
about 10 minutes ago I saw that this thread had been bumped which will probably bring in some new users. So I have uploaded the newest version for people to use which is much more user friendly. When you save the game you no longer have to manually select each control group. Just type "save" and it is all done automatically!
Also a few other changes and bug fixes.
If you use custom hotkeys for control groups though you will need to edit a file to let the game know which keys you use. The first post has been updated with details about this.
As for disconnects during a tournament I do not want to save periodically as this might be a cause of lag. However I can detect when 1 player drops and save the game when that happens. But this will only be AFTER I have found a way to squeeze a save game into a tiny file (Blizz imposes small file size restrictions which to be fair is a good idea most of the time)
Hope you guys like
Would it be possible for you to create a script that will convert the local SC2Hotkey file that we use into your version of SALT.SC2Hotkey?
On February 22 2012 12:44 stanik wrote: Would it be possible for you to create a script that will convert the local SC2Hotkey file that we use into your version of SALT.SC2Hotkey?
That would be good, however for security reasons the only files we are allowed to read/write are bank files inside the players "Banks" folder. The easiest solution would be if Blizzard implemented a function that lets custom map code know what units are in a control group. You can add and remove units from player control groups, just not know whats in there at any given time. Hence why it is awkward to keep track of.
instead of the 4 maps that there used to be there are now 13 maps + Show Spoiler +
LADDER / TOURNAMENT: SALT Antiga Shipyard SALT Entombed Valley SALT Cloud Kingdom SALT Metalopolis SALT Shakuras Plateau SALT Shattered Temple SALT Tal'Darim Altar
TOURNAMENT: SALT Dual Sight SALT Crevasse SALT Daybreak SALT Terminus
NOT IN COMPETITIVE USE: SALT Xel'naga Caverns SALT Bel'shir swamp (one of my own maps, not balance tested)
on which SALT has been ported to which are now all available on NA, EU and SEA*
On top of that I have edited the OP to reflect some other news items. usability is now greatly improved with control groups now recognized automatically, QXC has graciously offered to help host the maps to NA and SALT has been covered by H-to-the-usky-HUSKY
I do not plan on spamming the general forum everytime there is an update, but given the number of people who got in contact with me requesting this be uploaded to Europe I think this definitely warrants a good hearty bump.
One last item, I recently learned that if a game is private it does not count towards the amount of time played on a map. It would help out if games played on SALT were set to "open to public" even if it is a private game between you and a friend as this would help spread the visibility of this project. there is a maximum of two players so if you create the game and add your friend there will be absolutely no difference.
Thank you for your time patience. Now get out there and "practice being a better gamer" Turtles
Been using this bit since I heard about it from reddit, truly awesome idea, I have some input for the OP, It seems there is a bug when loading states, Worker rally seem to be destroyed, causing workers to try and travel to your opponents base, and the severity of this seems to depend on the map.
On another topic, I thought adding a countdown after loading a state might be nice. Of course you CAN just observe the state and soak in the following tasks to follow, but i just thought it could make it a little easier to jump back in, idk just an idea.
have to test it right away i think this is going to be sooooo helpful to find out if you made the correct choices AWESOME it just adds so much much much more to practice
I love this map so much. If you're still working on it I would appreciate if you could fix these bugs: Larva doesn't start on the ground. You have to wait a second before you can make your first drone. If the game was saved while a hatchery was building and the state is loaded after it completes, the creep is still there. Rallies sometimes are not saved.
If you need help deploying the latest versions to KR, lemme know via PM
SALT Antiga Shipyard is uploaded to KR server. I'm not sure about the others. Could you check if it works on KR server? Does it work with KR language pack?
Thank you for the offer. skeldark uploaded to KR with a friends account but if he can't upload there and I need help I might send you a message
On March 21 2012 10:55 memcpy wrote: I love this map so much.
Thank you, I'm glad to know it's getting some love. <3
If you're still working on it I would appreciate if you could fix these bugs:
Yes, I am still working on it, I have a new patch 70% done. I'm going camping for 2 weeks starting Thu so I'm trying to push out the newest version before I go but I don't know if I can make it in time. I might release a beta version on one map so people can have a look and give feedback.
new version has several tweaks, better menus and the ability to swap to help demonstrate things in coaching scenarios or to have fun fighting the same battle from the other side.
Larva doesn't start on the ground.
problem fixed already in the new patch
If the game was saved while a hatchery was building and the state is loaded after it completes, the creep is still there.
I'll add it to my very long list of tweaks that need to happen
Rallies sometimes are not saved.
If an outright bug happens it might help if you sent me the replay file. It has sometimes been helpfull to look at the replay of when problems have occured. The map has my email add in it or you could just PM me.
and used in tournaments in the case of a player who gets disconnected.
Is this actually possible?
From what I've heard it's currently not possible due to the size limit on save data files.
Edit: Found turtle's post in the thread about it. He said he was working on compressing the data to make it fit. This was posted a while ago so idk what the current status is.
On April 08 2012 11:50 mastergriggy wrote: If only blizzard implemented half of the amazing things their community has created...
Or in the least if they'd keep on their policy of WoW, any good addon that the community makes, they steal and call their own. If only.
Or- for once, created a proper infrastructure in the first place
Yeah, good luck with ever getting that to happen.
I am interested to see what 1.5 will bring however. It would be amazing if something like this could be brought in for future tournaments. Would make it so much easier and save us a whole lot of drama.
On April 08 2012 14:23 JiPrime wrote: Holy shit, someone show this to GOM, ASAP
As amazing as this project is, how would the ability to reload a gamestate as long as no one disconnects from the game help in the case of a disconnect?
On April 08 2012 22:05 StarcraftMan wrote: I wonder if this could be modified to work for tournament games in case a player disconnects ...
One solution would be if you have a backup computer with the sole purpose to be an idle observer of the game. With a save functionality directly when someone disconnects that observer could be voted to become one of the players.
In reality it only requires a player to switch to the backup computer and then continue the game. Everything is stored locally on the computers so that would not be a problem.
At IPL they had 4 computers at stage. 2 of the computers that were idle could become backup computers.
This doesn't allow for tournament reconnects guys. That's impossible to implement as it stands. You can't output the state of the game, then start a new game and resume it. Blizzard would have to allow filesystem access to custom maps for that, or some other method of input.
On April 09 2012 06:33 JackDT wrote: This doesn't allow for tournament reconnects guys. That's impossible to implement as it stands. You can't output the state of the game, then start a new game and resume it. Blizzard would have to allow filesystem access to custom maps for that, or some other method of input.
its possible, The problem is the maximum size of the bank file.
SALT did it without saving into bankfile yet. However the main work makeing such a map is to bypass blizzard retarded mapeditor functions.
To get it into a bankfile you have to pack the gamedata very low. Like break down the most needed information and formation everything into String ( string because blizz count the hole dank file -XML with ton of wasted headerinfos- . All of this in a sc2 editor, a MAPEDITOR not a real programming system.
A TON of work. but possible... (at least for early-midgame)
However if you have power over the fileaccess and the real unit functions, like blizzard have, a save/load system could be done in 1 day. Shows how much they care....
Without using the bank file, it should still be possible to have a load game feature, but it'd be a lot of work.
This would take a lot of work in 3 different ways: 1. A bunch of work to parse replay files into a coded format for the map script to read (3rd party program) 2. A bunch of work to make a map script that will read/execute/translate the coded format into game actions (not sure how much of that is already done in this map) 3. A bit of work any time anyone wants to load a map based off a replay. They would need to create a version of the map with that script in it (unless it already existed), they would need to run the parsing program, then they would need to copy and paste the data into the custom map.
Overall, it would just be a whole lot better if blizzard added save/load for multiplayer. The single player version that exists already would probably be sufficient I would think.
At the least they could increase bank size. There should be a setting in Starcraft 2's options that lets a user control how much space is used up for both maps and bank files (note I'm not suggesting that users get individual max file size control). Considering that placing a limit on bank size doesn't even limit the amount of space those bank files could in-total take up on a user's hard drive, I still don't understand the point of the size limit.
I have no clue why their bank file size is limited to such a small size, especially compared to how large the limits are for map size. Bank files aren't even stored on Blizzard servers so it's not even an issue for them in that sense —unlike map size— so WTF?
Of course, Blizzard should implement support for resuming games where disconnects occur. There is no need for LAN support to avoid incidents like there were at the GSTL finals and other major tournaments. It would really solve a lot of problems.
It should be possible that an observer or one of the players can save such a game as a custom map and then players can use that to resume their game. Or have some tool to convert the replay.
I can not know how difficult it really is for blizzard to implement that, but it is possible.
First of all I want to say SALT is an AMAZING idea. I want to thank you so much turtles for creating such an amazing training tool.
That being said, I just started using SALT with my brother and we found a bug on Antiga Shipyard where my brother was playing protoss and his blink and warpgate were cancelled when the game was reloaded while the +1 attack on the forge continued. I as zerg didn't really have much of a problem. Thought I would just throw that out there.
EPT
