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Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 19 2012 01:04 Asha` wrote:aLive's interview completely confirms Fnatic poached him lol. Show nested quote +Couldn't Fnatic back out from taking you in as well?
They could. However Fnatic also played a part. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm only able to accept this situation because I'm certain that Fnatic sign me.
Fnatic is a foreign team. Couldn't there have been misunderstandings in communication with the translator?
Of course I've also thought that. I also left because of money. But if that were the case there's nothing I could do. I'll accept it aLive seems to be handling this all very maturely though despite part of it being down to his immature decision making initially. --- messy stuff all around though tbnh
I would say the overall gist is:
- aLive wants to leave the team, but is contracted to stay until July.
- Fnatic translator and him talk a bit casually. Translator raises the possibility of aLive moving to Fnatic, but nothing official. (I don't see anything wrong with this, personally, but maybe there should be rules about when a player should be allowed to talk to someone else from another team.)
- aLive decides to forgo the entire process by leaving TSL so Fnatic doesn't have to pay a transfer fee. (-1 aLive, -1 Fnatic for encouraging this).
- Lee finds out somehow. (-1 Lee. Sorry, snooping on ppl's personal computer is sketchy as hell.)
- Lee and aLive talk, aLive apologizes, owns up, but says he still wants to leave, and Lee says he understands. Yaaaaay.
- Lee nevertheless releases details to media. Oh god, why, Lee? (-1 Lee, please deal with this privately, please?).
- Fnatic responds saying there was no official offer. (This is true.)
- Ongoing discussion, probably.
$1000 is chump change for Fnatic to buy aLive, IMO. They should just do it and get aLive out of this awkward situation, rofl.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Everyone here insulting Coach Lee when all the parties involved are equally guilty.
I'm not saying that Coach Lee is any less to blame for the mess; if anything he is the reason everything became public. But aLive and Fnatic are just as wrong for their actions as coach Lee. It's kinda annoying how everyone can so easily insult him ("omg he seems like a bad person", "omg he is a douche") and say nothing about the other two, equally culpable entities. Actually, I'm disappointed that so many random people in this thread are just throwing insults at people when the whole, factual, unbiased story has yet to be revealed (actually, even with all the details insulting people is still in poor taste).
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How is coach lee the bad guy when TSL Alive had a CONTRACT till July 2012?
Alive breached the contract, and legally has to pay, which is what's going to happen.
Alive is the one who fucked up here, not coach lee (and not fnatic either really).
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On January 18 2012 22:56 Junichi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 22:51 Lightspeaker wrote:On January 18 2012 21:18 Xalorian wrote:
WTF is with this, anyway? So you can't talk to a player from another team, except if you talked to their team manager first? It's bullshit. Do you need to talk to the boss of someone before offering him a better job nowaday? That's completly retarded. You go to him, you offer him a spot in your team... and if he is interested, then you go discuss contract business with his manager. Logical step. Completely wrong in normal competitive sports actually. Its not just like a normal job. The term is "tapping up" and refers to when you speak to a player with a view to persuading them to transfer without getting permission to do so from their current team. Its a huge problem sometimes with the likes of Barcelona and Manchester City accused of it lately. Arsenal were especially angry last summer over Barcelona's attempt to sign Fabregas. I'm pretty sure FIFA has rules against it, but SC2 doesn't have an equivilant body so its not "formally" against any rules (because there are none). However its extremely disrespectful to their current team. In football (soccer, to all americans ) teams are allowed to approach a player directly in the last half year before the contract expires. If they want to talk to the player before that period they have to first ask the other team if they are ok with them contacting the player. SC2 needs a regulating body to implement those kinds of rules imo, but on the other hand regulating institutions like KESPA and FIFA (can) have major drawbacks, as we all know.
Indeed. To cut off anyone trying to pounce on this, however: the last six months thing is for negotiating signing a player after their current contract runs out (that is to say, they don't sign a new contract with their current team and instead sign with a new team after letting their existing contract run out). Not to do with immediately taking on a player who still has time left on their contract.
And yeah, the whole regulating body thing is a tough question. There can be HUGE drawbacks; but without them theres no formal rules on things like this other than informal agreements.
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I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
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Not long ago, in France, some friend get fired because she was negotiating with another company a contract for a new job. Her director discovered that by sneaking into her email inbox. She sued him (work tribunal) and won a nice amount of cash and her job back.
I'm quite sure what coach Lee did to get the Skype conversation is illegal and must fall under some Korean law...
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On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
I hope you don't snoop on your player's computers though, Boss. 
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Always seems like these issues focus around Coach Lee. He's supposed to be a great guy, but nearly every player he's coached has either "stabbed him in the back" or "acted dishonestly." At a certain point, Coach Lee remains the one common denominator in most of these issues.
His players are leaving him en mass lately, rather than whine about aLive or bitch about Fnatic, Coach Lee should be spending time figuring out why nobody wants to stay in TSL these days
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Please note that the penalty that Coach Lee is asking for is $10,000 and NOT $1,000
That's definitely not "clump change" for any esport team -.-
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On January 19 2012 01:13 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:04 Asha` wrote:aLive's interview completely confirms Fnatic poached him lol. Couldn't Fnatic back out from taking you in as well?
They could. However Fnatic also played a part. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm only able to accept this situation because I'm certain that Fnatic sign me.
Fnatic is a foreign team. Couldn't there have been misunderstandings in communication with the translator?
Of course I've also thought that. I also left because of money. But if that were the case there's nothing I could do. I'll accept it aLive seems to be handling this all very maturely though despite part of it being down to his immature decision making initially. --- messy stuff all around though tbnh I would say the overall gist is: - aLive wants to leave the team, but is contracted to stay until July. - Fnatic translator and him talk a bit casually. Translator raises the possibility of aLive moving to Fnatic, but nothing official. (I don't see anything wrong with this, personally, but maybe there should be rules about when a player should be allowed to talk to someone else from another team.) - aLive decides to forgo the entire process by leaving TSL so Fnatic doesn't have to pay a transfer fee. (-1 aLive, -1 Fnatic for encouraging this). - Lee finds out somehow. (-1 Lee. Sorry, snooping on ppl's personal computer is sketchy as hell.) - Lee and aLive talk, aLive apologizes, owns up, but says he still wants to leave, and Lee says he understands. Yaaaaay. - Lee nevertheless releases details to media. Oh god, why, Lee? (-1 Lee, please deal with this privately, please?). - Fnatic responds saying there was no official offer. (This is true.) - Ongoing discussion, probably. $1000 is chump change for Fnatic to buy aLive, IMO. They should just do it and get aLive out of this awkward situation, rofl.
aLive said Fnatic is giving him an offer. Doesn't sound like a casual talk to me. He also said that he talked to Fnatic management on Skype over the details of his transfer. Again, how deep was Fnatic in this shit seriously?
I bet Fnatic was hoping aLive keeps his mouth shut, but noooooooo that didn't happen. Now cue the damage control!
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I thought it would be bad to continue to stay with this team
I REALLY REALLY want to know now what is wrong with the team? I mean almost every single founding member has left now, someone needs to find out what is up.
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On January 19 2012 01:16 hyperknight wrote:
Please note that the penalty that Coach Lee is asking for is $10,000 and NOT $1,000
That's definitely not "clump change" for any esport team -.-
OH WELL. IN THAT CASE.
That definitely .... isn't chump change. Rofl. That's like half a year's worth of salary for a progamer. Maybe they should just split the fee with aLive in that case.
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Btw, this is really offtopic but how come TeamLiquid ESPORTS only has 1 post???
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On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
I don't think that's specifically the issue, it just seems like Coach Lee blows things out of proportion.
But I agree with you that he has the right to be angry if the player doesn't respect the contract. But public outcry over it? Nobody is gonna hate the player for leaving, only the team he is leaving/that coach.
Just seems unprofessional and high-school ish
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On January 19 2012 01:16 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
I hope you don't snoop on your player's computers though, Boss.
Nah, I can't read korean.t. If someone wants to disrespect me by not valuing a contract, thats their choice. Most probably I would let them go.
But it would be nice to not be poked in the eyes with pitchforks if I did try to fight for my rights.
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On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
Didn't you know? In a world of Haves vs Havenots, you already are a criminal control! 
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On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
"TSL LOSES GOOD PLAYERS. COACH LEE IS TSL COACH. COACH LEE IN HEADLINES AGAIN: Coach Lee is a bad person. I shall make a degrading comment about him!"
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On January 19 2012 01:16 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:13 babylon wrote:On January 19 2012 01:04 Asha` wrote:aLive's interview completely confirms Fnatic poached him lol. Couldn't Fnatic back out from taking you in as well?
They could. However Fnatic also played a part. I hope that doesn't happen. I'm only able to accept this situation because I'm certain that Fnatic sign me.
Fnatic is a foreign team. Couldn't there have been misunderstandings in communication with the translator?
Of course I've also thought that. I also left because of money. But if that were the case there's nothing I could do. I'll accept it aLive seems to be handling this all very maturely though despite part of it being down to his immature decision making initially. --- messy stuff all around though tbnh I would say the overall gist is: - aLive wants to leave the team, but is contracted to stay until July. - Fnatic translator and him talk a bit casually. Translator raises the possibility of aLive moving to Fnatic, but nothing official. (I don't see anything wrong with this, personally, but maybe there should be rules about when a player should be allowed to talk to someone else from another team.) - aLive decides to forgo the entire process by leaving TSL so Fnatic doesn't have to pay a transfer fee. (-1 aLive, -1 Fnatic for encouraging this). - Lee finds out somehow. (-1 Lee. Sorry, snooping on ppl's personal computer is sketchy as hell.) - Lee and aLive talk, aLive apologizes, owns up, but says he still wants to leave, and Lee says he understands. Yaaaaay. - Lee nevertheless releases details to media. Oh god, why, Lee? (-1 Lee, please deal with this privately, please?). - Fnatic responds saying there was no official offer. (This is true.) - Ongoing discussion, probably. $1000 is chump change for Fnatic to buy aLive, IMO. They should just do it and get aLive out of this awkward situation, rofl. aLive said Fnatic is giving him an offer. Doesn't sound like a casual talk to me. He also said that he talked to Fnatic management on Skype over the details of his transfer. Again, how deep was Fnatic in this shit seriously? I bet Fnatic was hoping aLive keeps his mouth shut, but noooooooo that didn't happen. Now cue the damage control!
Did it say he actually talked to the actual manager? I'm going off moonmeh's translation; it was the first released. I don't know which one's correct. There's a conflicting statement there.
"Cross contract seems be an over reaction, as I haven't made a contract yet. I received an offer from the translator last Sunday and on Monday he asked if I wanted to talk to the Fnatic manager and talked in detail."
vs.
"A: Trying to get a deal while I was still under contract with TSL. I have not signed with Fnatic yet. Fnatic's translator told me last Sunday that they'd give me an offer. I talked to the Fnatic's management on Monday with more details."
Lol, translations.
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On January 19 2012 01:18 dezmathio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:15 FXOpen wrote:
I just don't understand this thread at all. Like.. A player doesnt respect a contract. All of a sudden coach lee is a control freak douche? What?
Really?
<brain explode>
I hope no player breaks my contract, cos then if I fight for my rights, I will apparently be some sort of criminal control freak.
I don't think that's specifically the issue, it just seems like Coach Lee blows things out of proportion. But I agree with you that he has the right to be angry if the player doesn't respect the contract. But public outcry over it? Nobody is gonna hate the player for leaving, only the team he is leaving/that coach. Just seems unprofessional and high-school ish
This is e-sports. Public outcry is the ONLY way to get things done. As I have demonstrated a few times.
Its impossible to get things done behind the scenes nowadays, people ignore you, say things like "so what, what are you going to do", "if you sue me I'll sue you so ner"... The beauty of the internet and multiple jurisdictions. The one thing that hits people where it hurts is bad PR. So its the only way to really get peoples attention.
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EPT
