EPTMLG Pros' Choice Awards - Page 7
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ieatfries
Canada44 Posts
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On December 24 2011 23:50 Geordie wrote: Hero has been a showman through his baller play. But he aint got shit on Min Chul. Hero nominated for the ceromony award? What in the fuck? When has hero ever not just stood there nervously after winning a game lol.  | ||
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The_LiNk
Canada863 Posts
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DrGreen
Poland708 Posts
-WhiteRa -Sheth -Boxer How am I supposed to pick one?! HOW?! edit: So that's why MLG fired half of their staff  moniez for rewards, lawl | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On December 23 2011 13:42 red4ce wrote: My thoughts: Breakout player: Deservedly won by Leenock. Not sure why Stephano is even on the list when he only attended 1 MLG and placed 18th. Most underrated: Doesn't the fact that Haypro won this by such a large margin prove he's not underrated? Should have gone to Slush. And why the hell is MC even an option? Best Zerg: The pros are right on this one. DRG placed higher than Idra at all 3 MLG's he attended. Best Protoss: On the other hand, I think the fans are right on this one. All 3 nominees finished as the highest placing protoss in an MLG, but Huk was the only one who actually won one and Naniwa's Providence run was more impressive than any of MC's runs. Best Terran: Sorry MMA fans, MVP placed higher in both MLG's where they both attended. Best Macro: Would have loved if Idra were an option just to see exactly how highly the general SC2 community thinks of his macro. Best Overall Player: Not complaining about MVP winning, but why was Hero a nominee while Naniwa who finished #1 in ranking points isn't? not sure if serious, but naniwa did win dallas (26-2) the last non-korean mlg. he didnt just have one 2nd place finish. | ||
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Ninjahoe
Sweden148 Posts
On December 24 2011 20:06 MrMercuG wrote: No, he attended every MLG after he joined Liquid. Okay so like 2? Still not even close to best overall player lol, his placings is not even close to most others. | ||
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Ninjahoe
Sweden148 Posts
On December 24 2011 23:17 Ventor wrote: I'm sorry but some of these are totally off. Best protoss = Naniwa? Naniwa had a good show this year but he did not put up the results that HuK or MC did. People are too bias and want someone from their own country / continent to win, so they default to that person over the more suited person. If these votes are based on MLG results there is no question about it, NaNi was definitly the protoss with best results. MC not even close | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
TL should start a real kind of poll, and not with too many categories. | ||
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ScaSully
United States488 Posts
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On December 25 2011 02:20 shadymmj wrote: agreed, this is more like the choice of professional trolls. mvp #1, okay, but hero #2? hahaha... TL should start a real kind of poll, and not with too many categories. Professional SC2 players do seems trollish. | ||
Shellshock
United States97274 Posts
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
Having soapboxed on that, I think it is cool to have people voting on this sort of thing. Great when GSL has done these things, and good for MLG to do it. Edit: Where is Leenock on the best Zerg category? What are these pros thinking. He's been to the same number of tournaments as Nestea right? But he won it. As far as MLGs, Leenock totally showed the best play. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On December 24 2011 21:37 Cyro wrote: HuK is in top 3 for micro, hehe Hahahaha. (also just wanted to point out, I think this stuff was for performance at mlg, not overall, so someone like bomber who was only at one or maybe two mlgs might not be on the list) | ||
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Olinimm
1471 Posts
On December 25 2011 02:43 strongandbig wrote: Hahahaha. (also just wanted to point out, I think this stuff was for performance at mlg, not overall, so someone like bomber who was only at one or maybe two mlgs might not be on the list) Then why was Nestea in best zerg instead of Leenock? Why are Hero and Stephano under breakout player? Especially Stephano who did poorly at the only MLG he attended. | ||
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Hohto
Finland18 Posts
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Spaceneil8
United States317 Posts
On December 25 2011 02:30 Gfire wrote: I think the concept of pro's choice is a poor one for esports. We, the viewers, should be choosing everything. The foreign scene needs to understand that the pros work for us, not the other way around. We shouldn't give them so much power. Their focus should be on showing good games to us, and we should decide what we like and don't like. I think we already have an issue with people overvaluing the opinions of pros. Even if they are more qualified to decide these sorts of things accurately, I think it's out of place. Foriegn esports right now is sort of built on top of worshiping celebrities and I think we could stand to remember that they are supposed to be our servants. At least, that's how it aught to be, in my opinion. Having soapboxed on that, I think it is cool to have people voting on this sort of thing. Great when GSL has done these things, and good for MLG to do it. Edit: Where is Leenock on the best Zerg category? What are these pros thinking. He's been to the same number of tournaments as Nestea right? But he won it. As far as MLGs, Leenock totally showed the best play. The pros picks are the ones that give the most telling info. If the viewers chose everything it would just be fan favorites in every category. I think it's much more telling to see DRG voted best zerg by Pros than Nestea voted best zerg by fans. Also, I don't think these are based only on MLG results because pros would just vote honestly based on everyone. But you guys need tor remember they could only vote from the top 64 from MLG rankings. And only the top 64 were eligible to vote. | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
Breakout player, ABSOLUTELY Leenock. He came out of nowhere, took MLG Providence, went to the GSL finals, and did pretty well in the Blizzard Cup. Stephano and Hero had WAY more hype on them (though maybe the fact that I didn't like Leenock because he 6 Pooled NaDa and had my ears covered as a result). To be honest, Hero is still in Code A. Sure he went deep in some other nice FOREIGN tournaments, but he still hasn't broken into Code S. Stephano... If he went deeper into the Blizzard Cup, I suppose he'd be a good consideration, but he hasn't really been as consistent as Leenock since his breakout tournament win (though Leenock's results have slowly gone down in terms of how he places). I'm going to have to say Leenock is the clear victor here. I'd say the other breakout player is MMA. He took a GSL finals off of Mvp (tired or not, he still trampled Mvp) and gave us the BEST (yes, I said BEST) GSL finals (or, Blizzard Cup finals) to end the year with. Granted, I feel the average quality of game definitely favors Leenock vs Jjakji (basically EVERY game in that series was DAMN GOOD, whereas MMA vs DRG was both good and bad followed by an epic game on a Terran favored map with DRG fighting to make a comeback 3 times). Aggressive goes to MKP. This is the guy who does random timings for God's sake! MC gets ballsiest player (NASL S1 finals last game says it all), but he doesn't attack at random timings. JulyZerg is an aggressive player, no doubt, but he's not as volatile or unpredictable as MKP. MKP is so aggressive and volatile, he has a habit of doing timing attacks at the WORST possible times as well as the best possible times. Seriously, how much more aggressive can you be when you attack headlong into a loss? Underrated player, goes to Slush. I only heard of Slush as being a player who created these ridiculous all ins called something like "slush all ins" or something. Then he was placing high at MLGs and I was like "seriously?! This guy who I hear is cheesy as fuck??" MC shouldn't be there. He's not underrated. Maybe when he fell off the map he was, but it's not like he's not in the back of people's minds. Haypro, feels a bit meh to me, but he does pull out results. This is a bit personal choice for me. I really didn't expect much out of Slush, so he surprised me more than Haypro. I sort of expected more from Haypro (being from Liquid`). Unpredictable playercan go either to MKP or BoxeR (funny how they once shared the same name). MarineKing can really just make you go WTF. BoxeR just comes in with new builds and upsets. If you think he's out and done, he wins and beats a bunch of players "he shouldn't". He still fails to take a tournament, but he always goes unexpectedly far when people doubt him. MKP on the other hand, is more unpredictable in the game itself. This guy went Speed Reapers+Hellions against CheckPrime and wrecked him. He then proceeded to go mass Thor and lost. This guy... Random attack timings, random builds, random everything except performance. He's been underperforming as of late, but you expect(ed) this guy to go far and take #2. BoxeR you sort of expect to lose in the second round, but instead he goes on to take #3. So this really goes by how you define an unpredictable player. Both come up with new build orders (MKPs being more original and wonky, and BoxeR's being more crisp, game-changing, and solid), but MKP's unpredictability in a game is matched only by BoxeR's unpredictability in a tournament... I'm going with BoxeR on this one because MKP has several other nominations that he absolutely will win in a sane world and this is BoxeR's only nomination. The Emperor doesn't require handouts, but I'm recognizing that even past his prime, The Emperor is a force to not be taken lightly. Now for innovative, this is another horribly retarded one. Kiwikaki (in retrospect) isn't necessarily innovative. This was talked about on either state of the game or inside the game or some similar show. Kiwikaki does random things, does it a few hundred times, and either has a gold nugget or a turd in his hand. People only give him credit for the gold and never the turds. Granted, he did change PvZ with the Mothership until it got nerfed, but since then I haven't seen much out of him. Too much poker perhaps? Then WhiteRa absolutely isn't innovative. Using Warp Prisms since the beta and doing nothing else doesn't make you innovative, it makes you different, it makes you unique. It DEFINES you, gives you a certain flair, a certain style. None of these descriptions come anywhere close to being innovative. Other than using Warp Prisms since the beta until they FINALLY became popular when they got buffed, what do people have to support an argument to say WhiteRa is innovative? And I don't think Bomber is innovative. He's just different. If he's massively ahead, he'll troll you with 100 years of nukes. Hell, he's realized it's so fun that he does it all the time now. And in TvZ, he might've started the mass Marine/Medivac style. He's the first one I've seen do it, and he's been doing it for a while and only now are other's starting to do it (like fOrGG). Don't give me crap like "MKP was the first to go mass marines!" MKP was the first to go for early Marine pressure as well as using Marines as the core unit of his army and having Tanks to support them. Bomber is just taking that a step further and going pure Marines with Medivacs, which only works now that Zergs have realized making 40 Banelings and 20 Zerglings with 20 Mutalisks dies to a dozen Tanks and a ton of pre-split Marines, so Zergs have gone for fewer Banelings in the army (which I like from a Zerg perspective, since players tend to throw away Banelings then think they are massively more ahead than they are). Less Banelings=more Marines. So out of the 3, I'd say Kiwikaki wins. But as for who our 3 nominees should've actually been... MKP, absolutely. He REVOLUTIONIZED TvZ. And he STILL comes up with wonky builds and styles that become mainstream. BoxeR (or perhaps the SlayerS team as a whole) also deserves to be there. Remember the Blue Flame Hellion shenanigans? Thank you BoxeR for fixing TvT! Since the nerf, Biomech has returned to mainstream use, though mech hasn't died. I really wish Mech would be used more than it currently is, but I want biomech to stay in use. I don't like the pure bio concept (it's good, I just don't like playing with out tanks), and though I like mech, it isn't something I want to use every freakin' game. NesTea has also changed the way ZvZ is played (with his Ultralisk and Mutalisk plays back when he was a ZvZ God). Hell, with how unpredictable his ZvZ was, NesTea should've had a nomination for most unpredictable player (though he'd get #3). Best Zerg... Now this is a bit tough. DRG has been performing as of late... But I still don't feel comfortable with his ZvP and ZvZ. Statistically, ZvP is his best matchup, and he's much better than when he cheesed oGs out of the GSTL by doing a Roach bust on MC in the semifinals. But his ZvZ...I don't feel as comfortable picking him as I'd feel comfortable picking NesTea (slump or not, playing poorly or not; though give me a few months and I might change my mind). DRG's ZvT has been beautiful since I first saw the entirety of it (the first time I saw it, I came in on a ton of Banelings rolling over MKP's arming and winning him the game). But since then, he hasn't looked like the ZvT God I believed him to be. He looks quite human now. Whether that was a result of the metagame shift from 2 Rax to Reactor Hellion expand or not, I can't say. Though overall, I'd be lying if I said I didn't think DRG is a great Zerg player. I don't think he's worthy to win a GSL yet. I still think he needs to develop his game a little bit more and get back to that insane ZvT form that NEARLY took out MMA in the GSTL finals (and it was merely 1 mistake that lost him the game). IdrA is good, but it feels like he's just a fan pick. He's improved a lot, no doubt, but I still don't think he's ready to be called the best zerg. Nestea is the former undisputed owner of the best zerg crown. Now it's a bit of a toss-up. Whether he just isn't taking things seriously anymore, his style has been figured out (like MC), or he's sick; I can't explain why he's where he is aside from some glaringly poor decisions in key moments of his matches. He seems to have a tendency to max out on a unit and try to A-move to victory (note his reliance on a retarded amount of Banelings then Broodlords in the Blizzcon finals). I can't give the title of best Zerg to a player like that. HOWEVER, I have more confidence in his ZvP and his ZvZ than I do in DRG's. Even if I feel less confident in his ZvT, the fact is ZvT is his worst matchup (or most human matchup). So overall, he SHOULD be the best (in top form), but as it is now, I have to go with DRG, since Nestea is looking more amateur than just plain human. Best protoss is a bit tough... They seem to specialize in one matchup, and otherwise be flipping coins for victory. However, I am overall most impressed with Naniwa's play. His PvZ is actually scary good. MC relies on insanely good control to win. Naniwa relies on insanely good decisions WITH insane control to win. HuK... Top 3 control isn't going to win you a GSL. Good job on ending the foreigner drought at MLG and beating MC to do it, but I still gotta go with Naniwa on this. Best Terran... Now this is hard... Again, Bomber doesn't belong here... He's just too inconsistent. Is he good? Hell yes. Is he always good? Hell no. Mvp vs MMA. I suppose we only care about #1 and #2, and both are right here. Mvp has been dominating for a majority of the year. MMA has broken out and shown his dominance towards the last third or quarter of the year. In their recent meetings, MMA has com out on top. So, who's the better Terran? Both have TvP as their worst matchups, with Mvp being better at the matchup. I would have to say TvZ goes to MMA. I mean, his name is basically Marine/Medic abuser. Mvp is great at being greedy or doing sick timings, both being polar opposites which throw opponents off guard. MMA is just generally a steady macro player in the matchup. So with one matchup going to one or the other, it falls down to TvT. When MMA winning their recent engagements, MMA has the better overall game. But I feel that without the Blue Flame nerf, Mvp would come out on top, being the current king of mech (as well as the only mech player). MMA said himself, that although he's winning and doing very well right now, Mvp had the better year by far. So do we go by year to date or do we go by who is currently the better player? MMA BARELY eeks out the better player category, and since I chose DRG over NesTea, I'm going to have to use the same logic and pick the better player and choose MMA. Best macro... Now that's tough... I don't know if we should even have Mvp there. Is he a good at macroing? He's DAMN good. But the thing is, there are high eco macro players, and low eco macro players. MMA is more of a high eco macro player and Mvp is more of a low eco macro player. What do I mean by this? High eco macro players generally get 55-65 SCVs. Low eco macro players get 40-50 SCVs, drop MULEs like mad, and constantly attack to force the game into a low economy state so that the MULEs will pull the player ahead (Mvp offered this concept as a tip to players struggling with the TvZ matchup, and boy when you're spending those extra 50 minerals every 17 seconds on Marines, it helps). Puma would be another low eco macro player. After a certain point, he basically stops making SCVs unless ABSOLUTELY necessary (like he has 6 SCVs left and wants to mine gas). And another high eco Terran would be NaDa (though he's sort of borderline sometimes, but at least he doesn't ever sit at the 40-something SCV mark). So now that we've discussed the difference between high eco and low eco macro, can we consider a low eco macro player to still have the best macro? Mvp likes the low eco style against Zerg because he knows that no matter how good he is, he can't outproduce workers against a professional Zerg player, so his alternative is to constantly attack to try and do damage while also forcing army production, the fundamental concept of early-mid TvZ. But Mvp is the guy who if he saw his Terran opponent also go for a CC first or 1 Rax FE, he would drop a second CC. Mvp definitely macroes well, but he will also go for greedy builds which helps you to outmacro your opponent if you don't get punished (which rarely happens to Mvp because he also frequently goes for high pressure builds). Nestea is the player who perfectly macros his way out of losing a Hatchery when going 15 Hatch against a 2 Rax, so he's definitely up there. He's great at getting an advantage with his macro and defense, but has no idea (as of late) of what to do with it when he ahs it. DRG was a total beast at macroing whether you attacked him or not. This is why he was so scary to play against. But neither NesTea or DRG have really played like that recently. So I guess the best macro goes to Mvp? Why do I feel dirty for doing this? Maybe it's because of those darn MULEs not only pumping the Terran economy but also Mvp's position as a macro player. Best micro... MKP, HuK, and MMA... MMA should be swapped with someone else, but I'm not sure who. MC? Nah... HuK should be swapped out for MC or Naniwa. Top 3 control bitches!!! (Behind Naniwa and MC). MMA is good at microing, but I feel like he's more of a hard macro player with aggressive builds and tendencies (multidrops ftw). Either way, MKP... The man who revolutionized TvZ and turned it into a battle of the squishies versus the squishies. Hurray for the man who broke TvZ! Best timing... Let's just keep this short and sweet... Mvp. He comes at you with some of the sickest timing pushes when he's not looking to straight up outmacro you. The guy is deadly no matter how you approach him in a game. The only one I could possibly put anywhere close to him would be MKP (both though luck or skill depending on whether he scouted or not) and fOrGG who did a mech timing push at... 9 minutes? 10 minutes? In a TvT... Yeah... Banshees pretty good at killing shit and crippling players... Multitasking... Well, DRG fell to MMA's multitasking SEVERAL times... So I can't put him in (though he's VERY good at unit positioning). I'd have to say MMA or Mvp would deserve this. MMA destroys you by forcing you to multitask. Mvp (back when it was mech vs mech) did the same to MMA. If MMA was nominated, this would be much harder. But he's not, so Mvp is a clear winner here (Jesus, if i didn't barely edge to MMA for Best Terran, Mvp would basically have swept all the categories he's been nominated for, though we know everyone will vote Mvp for Best Terran anyway). Best showman... Has Hero or HuK done anything? Have they done it consistently? This clearly goes to MC. He's no FireBatHero, but he always does SOMETHING. He'll bang on the window of your booth, he'll give you the cutthroat gesture, he'll get in your face BEFORE AND AFTER the match. Granted it might not be the most mannered way to approach your games, but boy does it create something for the fans to enjoy! MC, regardless of how many people hate you for it, I will enjoy your antics until you actually go too far and break a guy's head in with a hammer or something. On another note, I think the guy who Hadoukened IdrA (was that MMA?) and the guy who busted out his nun-chucks (however you spell that) in the GSTL when his teammate won deserve notice. Best sportsmanship... This is another one of those truly tough ones... Sheth, always with the manner smile attached to his ggs. WhiteRa, always being mannered. And BoxeR... Well he's pushed eSports this far and it wasn't through just his skill, but his character as well. All 3 are great people. But, for that extra touch of nice, I'll give Sheth the win for his smiley faces. I know there was someone else who did that though... Oh, and for humble speeches after a loss, we'd have to give it to incontrol. Was it overkill when he dumped his guts out on a table and bowed down to Losira? Yeah.... Quite a bit so... Was it polite? Very... But again, it was so overkill that it feels a bit fake (though I'm sure he meant 90% of it). It's just that he doesn't do it every freakin' game he loses like Sheth does with his smiley faces. So no matter what, Sheth takes the win. Best Overall Player... Mvp... With his opponents... You got to be kidding me... They don't deserve to be top 3 with all the other amazing players out there right now. I do believe HuK and Hero can be the best player (once Protoss as a race gets fixed), just not now when there's MMA, Leenock, DRG, Jjakji, Naniwa, and so on. Best Cheese... How do we define this? Are we talking the most absurd cheese you'd see in a professional match (like a 6 pool)? Or the best cheese you've seen in a professional match (like a proxy base)? Given the former, you can't get worse than a 6 Pool except by pulling a Naniwa (yes, Probe rushes are now deemed as "pulling a Naniwa"). So I guess Naniwa wins? But they were so disgusted with his bad manner, that they removed him from the nominations. Rain basically made it to GSL Open Season 3 finals by cheesing his way there... But he's changed... I really don't know who to pick... So I'll pick Puma, for his cheesy hair... (I'm just kidding, but I'm picking Puma anyways because he didn't pop up anywhere else and because it's funny.) Too many of these are clearly fanpicks... HuK and Hero appear WAYYYYYYYYYY too many times. They're good, but I'm sure you can easily find 2 other players to bump them out of the top 3. But I do think we should create another category called "The Savior of Foreign SC2", and the winner shall be HuK (with Stephano taking second?). Hero should've been in the innovative category for sure though. The guy actually does come up with some cool stuff, though they are a bit gimmicky. | ||
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Olinimm
1471 Posts
On December 25 2011 08:21 RyLai wrote: Best protoss is a bit tough... They seem to specialize in one matchup, and otherwise be flipping coins for victory. However, I am overall most impressed with Naniwa's play. His PvZ is actually scary good. MC relies on insanely good control to win. Naniwa relies on insanely good decisions WITH insane control to win. HuK... Top 3 control isn't going to win you a GSL. Good job on ending the foreigner drought at MLG and beating MC to do it, but I still gotta go with Naniwa on this. Naniwa is 1-12 in GSL, that's all you need to know to realize that he isn't the best Protoss. He's had 3 chances in Code A and went 0-4 in Blizzard cup. | ||
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