EPTI've seen TLO do some really cool stuff with it lately, but it was obviously in games where he was enormously far ahead and having some fun with his opponent.
[Trans] Interview, Chris Sigaty/David Kim - Page 5
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yeastiality
Canada374 Posts
I've seen TLO do some really cool stuff with it lately, but it was obviously in games where he was enormously far ahead and having some fun with his opponent. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
I know the argument sounds stupid at first glance, but if you look at the background of the players the Terrans have simply been better their whole career. This also has a snowball effect, because everyone will be copying the strategies from the best players. The best BW players to switch over are all Terran (ForGG, MVP, Nada (vet), Boxer (vet)), Iron (ogsMC) was known as the suicide Toss (for just losing all his units and being really bad), and Zergbong (Nestea) never played 1v1 and was hardly known at all. Almost nobody knew MC and Nestea pre-SC2, but the Terrans are all quite well known. If you don't believe me just compare the winnings of these players on TLPD, the disparity is huge. If Stork switched to SC2, he would create some crazy imba builds that would trickle down in the lower leagues, and eventually everyone would be crying out how imba Protoss is. It makes no sense to nerf Terran that much given this information, SC2 has an advantage over other games in that they can look at the players backgrounds to see whether it is balance or skill. Instead other races should be given better defensive options so at least they don't die immediately, and can still produce good games regardless. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
It makes it so that the game comes down to the tiniest millimeter that decides whether every single Marine explodes into green goo or if they overrun the Zerg base. It gets to the point where if you're MMA and your Marine micro is that good, then you need something more then just Banelings to beat him. But if you're not MMA (or you just happen to move out of your base without scanning) then 2 Banelings absolutely wreck your army, you lose all map presence, and you subsequently get destroyed. It's just poor game design to have something so fragile, yet so powerful that plays such a prominent role in the game. It's one thing to have fragile units that do lots of damage, but they shouldn't be the "core" unit like the Marine. That role should be for caster units or other high tech "support" units. With core units like Roaches or Zealots, Zerg and Protoss armies are a lot more durable (in the Zerg case, if their army is made up of Zerglings then they have the ability to remax it super quickly so it's not as important that it's super fragile) and a lot less likely to suddenly die or suddenly win the game. I just wish that Blizzard would find some way to make Mech better (especially vP, as it seems to be the only match-up that it hasn't been successful in, but making it less difficult to do in TvT would be fine with me ^^). TL;DR: Bio is dumb, make mech better Sincerely, A Terran player | ||
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Glockateer
United States254 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:08 sluggaslamoo wrote: Terran might be a bit stronger, but GSL Terrans are dominating because the players are just better. That's why the disparity is larger. I know the argument sounds stupid at first glance, but if you look at the background of the players the Terrans have simply been better their whole career. This also has a snowball effect, because everyone will be copying the strategies from the best players. The best BW players to switch over are all Terran (ForGG, MVP, Nada (vet), Boxer (vet)), Iron (ogsMC) was known as the suicide Toss (for just losing all his units and being really bad), and Zergbong (Nestea) never played 1v1 and was hardly known at all. Almost nobody knew MC and Nestea pre-SC2, but the Terrans are all quite well known. If you don't believe me just compare the winnings of these players on TLPD, the disparity is huge. If Stork switched to SC2, he would create some crazy imba builds that would trickle down in the lower leagues, and eventually everyone would be crying out how imba Protoss is. It makes no sense to nerf Terran that much given this information, SC2 has an advantage over other games in that they can look at the players backgrounds to see whether it is balance or skill. Instead other races should be given better defensive options so at least they don't die immediately, and can still produce good games regardless. ^ This. Trying to balance the game every month or two is silly as the game is constantly evolving. Even BW had an era of terran dominance and then a bonjwa zerg (turned "villain") came in and turned it on its head. Stuff changes and people get better. Some changes are obvious (PvP being nearly all 4 gate vs 4 gate) and then some are just controversial or silly (65 second barracks time instead of bigger maps). Complaining so much about balance is a double-edged sword. | ||
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ArtisaBang
195 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:36 The Final Boss wrote: Bio isn't fun to play with or against and it creates awkward one-sided battles:
It makes it so that the game comes down to the tiniest millimeter that decides whether every single Marine explodes into green goo or if they overrun the Zerg base. It gets to the point where if you're MMA and your Marine micro is that good, then you need something more then just Banelings to beat him. But if you're not MMA (or you just happen to move out of your base without scanning) then 2 Banelings absolutely wreck your army, you lose all map presence, and you subsequently get destroyed. It's just poor game design to have something so fragile, yet so powerful that plays such a prominent role in the game. It's one thing to have fragile units that do lots of damage, but they shouldn't be the "core" unit like the Marine. That role should be for caster units or other high tech "support" units. With core units like Roaches or Zealots, Zerg and Protoss armies are a lot more durable (in the Zerg case, if their army is made up of Zerglings then they have the ability to remax it super quickly so it's not as important that it's super fragile) and a lot less likely to suddenly die or suddenly win the game. I just wish that Blizzard would find some way to make Mech better (especially vP, as it seems to be the only match-up that it hasn't been successful in, but making it less difficult to do in TvT would be fine with me ^^). TL;DR: Bio is dumb, make mech better Sincerely, A Terran player the fact is almost every protoss unit destorying mech in TvP. Zealot ✔ Stalker ✔ Colossus ✔ Immortal ✔ HT-DT ✔ Archon ✔ | ||
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BraneSC2
United States123 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
I've been around top 8 masters since the game came out and I've only felt weaker and weaker with Terran since the games release. I don't think Blizzard realizes (well I'm sure they see the stats) that a good 5/10 of the best players in the world are Terrans. If they played Zerg they'd still be top 10 in the world most likely. Terran is so tough on NA Masters IMO. You already have seen a huge drop in Terrans from the top 20 GM. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
I think David Kim needs to change his views slightly on this - The problem is not korean terrans magically having higher winrates, it is with terran being superior in a high end practice enviroment, and scaling better with micro potential than protoss. Most of the issues stem from that in terms of the balance difference between korea and EU/US, and eventuly, the same problems will arise in eu/us if there is no metagame shift and people continue improving in my opinion | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:49 ArtisaBang wrote: the fact is almost every protoss unit destorying mech in TvP. Zealot ✔ Stalker ✔ Colossus ✔ Immortal ✔ HT-DT ✔ Archon ✔ Id still love to see mech played with a ton more, i think it is more entertaining AND fun to watch than having a terran run around with marine marauder medivac ghost viking in 1-2 control groups the entire game. If its not possible vs protoss, or too hard in tvt/tvz, maybe it needs to be changed some, blizzard of all developers have been quite eager to patch things in and out of the game for balance reasons, even if potentially premature | ||
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Warpath
Canada1242 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:25 yoonstar91 wrote: A. (Chris Sigaty) I cant say the specifics about the beta, but it’s coming soon. If one purchases the Zerg: Heart of the Swarm, one will still have the option to play the Terrans: Wings of Liberty. Unfortunately a player with only the Wings of Liberty can only play the Wings of Liberty. Well dang, I was hoping this wouldn't be the case. | ||
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SharkHuh
United States129 Posts
On December 22 2011 14:49 Warpath wrote: Well dang, I was hoping this wouldn't be the case. It's how Broodwar is. Not surprising at all. | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:44 Glockateer wrote: ^ This. Trying to balance the game every month or two is silly as the game is constantly evolving. Even BW had an era of terran dominance and then a bonjwa zerg (turned "villain") came in and turned it on its head. Stuff changes and people get better. Some changes are obvious (PvP being nearly all 4 gate vs 4 gate) and then some are just controversial or silly (65 second barracks time instead of bigger maps). Complaining so much about balance is a double-edged sword. Broodwar is Balanced by maps. And so should Sc2, you will see that happening because it's far more easy to balance a game with maps then with units. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:48 Roxy wrote: hmm.. well.. i hope all of the people posting in those terran QQ threads are embarrassed  Cant believe terran win 65% vs protoss though.. that is staggering But if it rounds out to 50%, does that mean that protoss is dominating zerg? If so, that contradicts the: "In Europe, Zerg tends to be stronger against Protoss. Overall Protoss seems weak while Terran and Zerg seems to be about the same" i think its a bit protoss favored even atm at least from the promatches i get to see | ||
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Gotmog
Serbia899 Posts
On December 22 2011 15:36 SharkHuh wrote: It's how Broodwar is. Not surprising at all. That was sarcasm. | ||
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-ZiG-
United States84 Posts
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WaSa
Sweden749 Posts
Gj, David Kim! | ||
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Caas
Sweden51 Posts
For f*** sake, learn to play the game and stop whining when you loose. Getting real f-in tired of this "OP" sh*t talk. | ||
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Chickaboom
Canada47 Posts
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
Just confirms what I had already though about them going in the wrong direction with the balance issues. I sure hope the Heart of the Swarm isnt the mess that I fear its going to be.... | ||
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