EPT[Trans] Interview, Chris Sigaty/David Kim - Page 6
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Genie1
Canada333 Posts
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:08 sluggaslamoo wrote: Terran might be a bit stronger, but GSL Terrans are dominating because the players are just better. That's why the disparity is larger. I know the argument sounds stupid at first glance, but if you look at the background of the players the Terrans have simply been better their whole career. This also has a snowball effect, because everyone will be copying the strategies from the best players. The best BW players to switch over are all Terran (ForGG, MVP, Nada (vet), Boxer (vet)), Iron (ogsMC) was known as the suicide Toss (for just losing all his units and being really bad), and Zergbong (Nestea) never played 1v1 and was hardly known at all. Almost nobody knew MC and Nestea pre-SC2, but the Terrans are all quite well known. If you don't believe me just compare the winnings of these players on TLPD, the disparity is huge. If Stork switched to SC2, he would create some crazy imba builds that would trickle down in the lower leagues, and eventually everyone would be crying out how imba Protoss is. It makes no sense to nerf Terran that much given this information, SC2 has an advantage over other games in that they can look at the players backgrounds to see whether it is balance or skill. Instead other races should be given better defensive options so at least they don't die immediately, and can still produce good games regardless. + Show Spoiler + I pretty much agree with everything you posted.. look how Genius played Protoss in the GSL today he made Protoss look scary. It actually looked like Taeja was scared of Genius's army quite often with such superb use of High Templars. I really do not think nerfing Terran anymore is a solution. Terrans suffered many nerf -bats in the last patches. I feel if anything they should leave it alone for a little longer to see how it pans out. | ||
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CharlieBrownsc
Canada598 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:40 SolidMoose wrote: It's from October, aka pre 1.4.2. The matchup is closer to 55-45 in P favor now. OP, you're going to need to make the old date more obvious, people are going to get confused. No, it's closer to 55-45 in tournament play, that isn't ladder | ||
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COLT217
Germany70 Posts
Thx for the translation, much more interessting answers than on the battle-net News. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:50 Roxy wrote: If splitting marines vs banes is easy, what do you consider to be hard as far as micro is concerned? marines vs lurkers? | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
On December 22 2011 22:24 Genie1 wrote: I wish they weren't so focused on pros because there are people that play this game with a much lower skill level. Tbh balance is a whine tactic at lower levels when at higher levels it can mean the difference between winning thousands and leaving empty-handed. So they should focus on higher level more. And they do focus on newbies. Look at the mothership, and how people hate it now. I'm sure its still used in lower level games, but other than the rare factor, its just a toy in pro play. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3692 Posts
On December 22 2011 22:24 Genie1 wrote: I wish they weren't so focused on pros because there are people that play this game with a much lower skill level. Oh for the love of god I have to restrain myself so hard to not flame the shit out of you. Pro level is the closest we can get to perfect play, perfect play means that racial imbalance are only happening because something is UP/OP and not because of the lack of skill displayed by any players. If you look at bronze - masters it gets really, really hard to see whether the players at that skill level are just way too bad or if it really is imbalance. Plus games like cod don't give a fuck about the pro scene and focus on the bad players, and hey it results in totally easy casual games that have a retardetly small skill gap. Blizz is one of the few remaining developers that doesn't focus 100% on the casual scene (atleast with sc2), and I love them for that. | ||
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Genie1
Canada333 Posts
On December 22 2011 23:45 StyLeD wrote: Tbh balance is a whine tactic at lower levels when at higher levels it can mean the difference between winning thousands and leaving empty-handed. So they should focus on higher level more. And they do focus on newbies. Look at the mothership, and how people hate it now. I'm sure its still used in lower level games, but other than the rare factor, its just a toy in pro play. On December 22 2011 23:58 Lorch wrote: Oh for the love of god I have to restrain myself so hard to not flame the shit out of you. Pro level is the closest we can get to perfect play, perfect play means that racial imbalance are only happening because something is UP/OP and not because of the lack of skill displayed by any players. If you look at bronze - masters it gets really, really hard to see whether the players at that skill level are just way too bad or if it really is imbalance. Plus games like cod don't give a fuck about the pro scene and focus on the bad players, and hey it results in totally easy casual games that have a retardetly small skill gap. Blizz is one of the few remaining developers that doesn't focus 100% on the casual scene (atleast with sc2), and I love them for that. To the two posts quoted here. I stopped playing when they made mech no longer viable with the re-added energy to the Thor. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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imPermanenCe
Netherlands595 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:25 yoonstar91 wrote: Q. Are you guys planning on balancing Starcraft 2 by making Starcraft 2 “global” instead of being divided into regions? And working on balancing the game from there? (some people say Korea is the only region with major balance problems.) A. (Chris Sigaty) We are planning on Cross-Regional battles. We are planning to make this happen before the Heart of the Swarm. But I believe that the balancing issue will remain. Balancing a game is a very difficult job. :O What would he mean with this? | ||
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ZeroWave
Israel49 Posts
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
But yes, hopefully mech becomes more viable vs Protoss in the expansion. I hope half of the Protoss race is remade, I honestly think Protoss units are by far the most poorly designed in the game. | ||
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Hohto
Finland18 Posts
On December 22 2011 22:24 Genie1 wrote: I wish they weren't so focused on pros because there are people that play this game with a much lower skill level. Balancing a game for low skill level is just plain horrible idea, that will just mess up the game really badly and should never be done. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
What we can agree upon is that 4 out of the 5 most dominant players of all time were Terran, and that most of the years of BW progaming have featured a Terran that was extremely dominant in the individual leagues. Terran imba? Okay, let's expand our list to include all recorded Korean progamers. Suddenly Zerg leads the field with 390 players, with T coming in at 320 and P at 300. Zerg imba? How about recent proleague performance then? Protoss is slightly more dominant currently, for some reason or another. May or may not be map based, but the fact remains that there has been no shortage of P v X's in the new proleague season. So what do we make of this? I say leave Terran alone until there is a worldwide consensus that Terran is winning too much - not just in Korea. 1 year of statistics is very poor information to base arguments upon. Maps are the best way of tweaking balance numbers. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11086 Posts
On December 23 2011 02:52 shadymmj wrote: So what do we make of this? I say leave Terran alone until there is a worldwide consensus that Terran is winning too much - not just in Korea. 1 year of statistics is very poor information to base arguments upon. Maps are the best way of tweaking balance numbers. Bit silly logic to be so over cautious. Almost as bad as the people claiming TvP was competitive when as David Kim admits there was a 65% win ratio (and visibly obvious faults with the matchup). There were and have been design faults in both racial and map design which even when pointed out by "lay" observers have proven strikingly prescient about the way the competitive scene has played out. There is a strong case that the changes in 1.4.2 and more importantly the map changes were necessary. (At least in Korea if you want to go by the Bisu quote.) I think the analogy back to BW is a false one, but even if we allow it to be true our consumption of competitive RTS play has changed since the days of early BW. To make it an interesting viable esport, all three races must be perceived as having a competitive chance at winning tournaments. If that is not the case then the game withers. Alternatively, maybe the "abnormally high/almost all terran players at the GSL level are more skilled and just better than their protoss equivalents" theory is correct and a weighted prize pool system would be the solution rather than any heavy handed balance changes. In either case, until we reach a rough level of balance that legitimizes the play of competitors no matter what race they play there is a strong case for active involvement by Gom/Blizzard. | ||
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300ml
United States32 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On December 23 2011 00:34 Genie1 wrote: To the two posts quoted here. I stopped playing when they made mech no longer viable with the re-added energy to the Thor. If that was the reason why you stopped playing, you must feel stupid now. Mech is used consistently in both TvT and TvZ, and Hellion drops/Jjakji's mech timings are working their way into pro TvP. Not to mention that from Diamond and below you could go mass Vikings every game and win consistently. Mech was not used for a time in high level matches, but why should that stop you? Finally, that it balance change may have made you quit the game, but if you balance the game around lower levels the pros can potentially lose thousands of pounds. Imagine if MC had won vs Puma at IEM Cologne - he would be thousands of euros richer. I don't think your "I quite because of a small balance change which barely affected me anyway" compares to that. | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On December 23 2011 04:31 SeaSwift wrote: If that was the reason why you stopped playing, you must feel stupid now. Mech is used consistently in both TvT and TvZ, and Hellion drops/Jjakji's mech timings are working their way into pro TvP. Not to mention that from Diamond and below you could go mass Vikings every game and win consistently. Mech was not used for a time in high level matches, but why should that stop you? Finally, that it balance change may have made you quit the game, but if you balance the game around lower levels the pros can potentially lose thousands of pounds. Imagine if MC had won vs Puma at IEM Cologne - he would be thousands of euros richer. I don't think your "I quite because of a small balance change which barely affected me anyway" compares to that. mech isnt really used in TvP in high level matches (due to them sucking balls vs protoss units) compared to how good they are in TvT and TvZ were you can actually win vs an equally skilled opponent when using pure mech. dropping hellions here and there or using tanks in a 1-1-1 build is not mech | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
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